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1 edit | reply to espaeth
Re: Muni's? said by espaeth:said by del ftl :
That article was about iprovo. different type of network entirely. Thanks to clueless journalists they simply lump one struggle with another. That's because the struggles are related. See: Without new money, UTOPIA faces troubleUtopia has been operating in the red since its inception, however, that's more an indictment that introducing a new small wireline provider to a duopoly market is an uphill battle rather than a sign that all municipal services are doomed for failure. Competition makes things cheaper because it forces companies to streamline their operations to reduce overhead, but municipal deployments tend to move in the exact opposite direction. You have companies like Qwest, AT&T, Comcast, Time Warner that all have centralized engineering staff, consolidated help desk locations, and then reserve field operations for lower paying jobs in most markets. They get efficiency by using a common billing system for all of their markets nationwide, and they get the same efficiencies in key areas like advertising. The incumbent providers may suck, but they can almost always provider cheaper service across a broad base of subscribers because they have efficiency of scale on their side. Companies like Wal-Mart have shown us that for many customers, price is truly the only deciding factor. Your blatant pro-corporation bias is disgusting. Incumbents "could" provide cheaper service because they've already paid for the lines they've built, but they never do. The other costs you've cited are minimal in the face of the massive cash flows generated by subscriber fees. UTOPIA's problems are not related to the cost of *operating* their network, but of *building* it out. Any new network's initial outlay is naturally expensive.
But once they finish the build-out there will be no problem recouping costs. As per the article they've already managed 30%+ penetration rates in areas that have near complete build-outs. They've never even advertised the service before:
Thus far, UTOPIA has left marketing up to the retail firms.
"People are not fully or even remotely aware of what UTOPIA is," Hogan said.
(»www.deseretnews.com/article/6952···PIA.html)
Either way, you know all this, and are just spreading FUD. | |
 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
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Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Vitelity VOIP
1 edit | said by sonicmerlin:Just as your dismissal of facts is Incumbents "could" provide cheaper service because they've already paid for the lines they've built, but they never do. The other costs you've cited are minimal in the face of the massive cash flows generated by subscriber fees. UTOPIA's problems are not related to the cost of *operating* their network, but of *building* it out. You completely underestimate the operational costs of running a wireline service. People, real estate, trucks, gas, power, and taxes are all very real costs to daily operations. Most providers are operating on about a 10% profit margin right now -- that doesn't give as much room to lower prices as you suggest. If you have data to support your conclusions, please reference it.
said by sonicmerlin:As per the article they've already managed 30%+ penetration rates in areas that have near complete build-outs. Heh, talk about cherry picking. Here's the full quote:
"While Lindon's population makes up 3 percent of UTOPIA's participating population, the city has received 28 percent of the benefit of the money spent so far.
Today, a third of Lindon households subscribe to services that rely on UTOPIA's fiber network." So their showcase example is that in a city that represents 3% of their total subscriber base, about 1/3 of that 3% sign up.
Their penetration isn't anywhere close to 30% system-wide.
"The agency has been plaguedby multimillion-dollar financial losses, missed construction deadlines and a subscriber base that numbers only about 10,000." Source: »www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5013···html.csp
said by sonicmerlin:They've never even advertised the service before: Thus far, UTOPIA has left marketing up to the retail firms. "People are not fully or even remotely aware of what UTOPIA is," Hogan said. Thanks for reinforcing my point that UTOPIA is not a successful model to template if some other municipality were to try doing this. | |
| how does one local company operate from the owner's house? It has espn,abc,disney,cnn,fox news.
It has 99 analog channels and is working on digital cable and hopefully soon internet. It only serves 5000 people at most too.
Another company serves 20,000 rural customers in 3 states and is using telemedia to run it's channels while keeping the company's name.
How do companies' like these stay afloat so much so that they wouldn't take comcast's offer and said they wanted more for their systems? | |
 P NessYou'Ve Forgotten 9-11 AlreadyPremium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
 ·Comcast
| reply to espaeth
Most providers are operating on about a 10% profit margin right now -- that doesn't give as much room to lower prices as you suggest. 10% profit margin is actually the majors full profit margin.
if you take the line item of broadband and look at the margins they are actually greater then 15%.
also 10%...geeze it only took 4% profit margins of the health insurance industry to have the govt put a cap on their profits.
careful what you wish for guys.
--
 NO U | |
espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
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| said by P Ness:10% profit margin is actually the majors full profit margin. if you take the line item of broadband and look at the margins they are actually greater then 15%. There is typically no way to calculate out the margins on a specific line of service from an MSO because so many of the costs are indirect costs.
A 10-K / 10-Q financial report only shows direct costs, or costs that can be attributed to a specific line of service only. Revenue on a line of service is easy to track, because in the case of HSI you're simply adding up how much money you took in from that line item on customer's bills. The costs as reflected on the financial statement, however, don't show the complete picture because only the costs associated providing that service and no other are included. Indirect costs include: cable plant maintenance, field tech salaries, transmission equipment, billing systems and employees, most helpdesk services, etc.
So with shared services like DSL on PSTN wiring and DOCSIS on cable lines, from a financial reporting standpoint the direct costs don't come anywhere near reflecting the total cost of providing the service because so much of the expense is in resources shared across product lines. | |
| reply to espaeth
"Most providers are operating on about a 10% profit margin right now"
What is this BS?
Correct that to 50-90% and we are talking about same thing, will you? | |
espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
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| said by Kharon8 :
"Most providers are operating on about a 10% profit margin right now"
What is this BS?
Correct that to 50-90% and we are talking about same thing, will you? Provide some supporting data and I will gladly revise my statements.
I am basing my statements off the financial reports filed with the SEC for each of the companies. Example data is charted and and available here:
Comcast Profit margin 9.28%
Time Warner Cable Profit Margin 7.22%
Verizon Profit margin -0.74%
If you have other data that indicates 50-90% margins, please post it. | |
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