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Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

whats the Best way to run gas line to garage?

I am looking at putting a heater in my 1 car garage that has a patio built on to it. How deep do I need to put it, and what is the best to use black steel or that csst? Do I need to put a tracer wire along the pipe in the ground?



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
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I'm no plumber, but I think ferrous pipe / tubing underground has become passe. I've only seen the gas company use copper or HDPE for buried lines (I'm talking about "private" post meter lines, not the mains and drops).

I had a line run about 10 years ago to a detached garage. I just used the local gas utility to have it done. It *seems* like the HDPE was at least a foot down. Probably closer to 18-24". They put some galvanized "sleeves" on it, one by the meter and one by the garage. They also buried a tracer wire. I guess with metallic pipe, you wouldn't need a tracer.

I'd wait for a plumber to chime in to tell you the actual requirements.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
reply to Murdoc

said by Murdoc:

what is the best to use black steel or that csst?
Check your local codes before you do anything. CSST isn't approved in some areas. Assuming it is approved in your area, I don't think you can bury it.


Nony Mouse

@comcast.net
reply to Murdoc

Maybe check with your gas utility. Ours gave me a 100' coil of direct burial plastic pipe and 2 transition fittings.



jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to Murdoc

Most municipal plumbing codes require gas lines be buried a minimum of 18 inches. I would not recommend direct bury of steel pipe. First of all for corrosion protection, the pipe would have to be mill wrapped with a plastic coating. You would need to thermite weld a wire from the pipe to a magnesium anode as well as for electrically bonding the couplings, and finally apply an insulating mastic pipe coating on any exposed steel.
CSST can be used if your town allows it, but when buried it must be installed inside a suitable sleeve (PVC) that is gas tight and is vented at each end.
Many CSST manufacturers also require only trained individuals install the transition fittings, so a plumbing supply house may not even sell it to you.
You may be handy, but you might need a plumber for some help with some of this one.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~



tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
kudos:5

2 edits

Black steel is illegal, at least in this area. Wouldnt doubt its also illegal there, as well as a very bad idea. Even with a coating, its going to rust eventually.

There is a new form of CSST that is approved for burial, but the fittings are so damn expensive, it makes plastic a no-brainer. (30-40$ per fitting for csst, my wholesale cost)

I`d use the yellow polyethylene underground with the proper riser fittings on each end. Local code here is a minimum of 18", deeper cant hurt. 2" of sand on top and bottom of pipe is also a very good idea for longevity.

Probably best to have a plumber do it. If you dig the trench, it would probably be a pretty cheap job.

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)



Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

1 edit
reply to Murdoc

Ok thanks for the help. I will contact the gas company and contact whoever they recommend.

I checked into it, and its like $250 and i think it was 35 cents a foot for a 1 inch line. And a lot of other red tape. So its either electric or propane. Since I have electric I think I will go with planning it out that way.



zen1

@optonline.net

said by Murdoc:

Ok thanks for the help. I will contact the gas company and contact whoever they recommend.

I checked into it, and its like $250 and i think it was 35 cents a foot for a 1 inch line. And a lot of other red tape. So its either electric or propane. Since I have electric I think I will go with planning it out that way.
electric heat in a garage? yipes!. that's going to be very expensive to run!. a propane heater, that could be converted later on to run on natural gas, to save even more money, is a much better bet!.


Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

1 edit

Yeah I know buddy your absolutely right. I was just thinking that it was going to be stupidly expensive before I came on. I think propanes a easier route to take. Or else do the csst in conduit and screw the permits and stuff and use natural gas.
Or maybe a quick disconnect fitting ( the one that cuts off when disconnected) on the house that I can connect a natural gas rated hose to.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to Murdoc

$250 + $.35 / foot is cheap! Hell, that's subsidized pricing.



Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

said by nunya:

$250 + $.35 / foot is cheap! Hell, that's subsidized pricing.
That's what I was thinking. It would be hard to run power or install a propane tank for that price.


Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

That would depend on where you have to run power from the main panel to wherever. I could probably be ok with a 45 foot electrical run. More then likely 35 feet if I did the csst in conduit like recommended by the install book.



The Pig
I know you want to be me
Premium
join:2009-09-11

1 edit
reply to Murdoc

NM



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
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reply to Msradell

I'd charge $250 just to show up with a trencher and a permit. I certainly charge a lot more than $.35 foot to put conduit in. Let alone wire, fittings, breakers, etc...

If the gas company was offering me that kind of price, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Electric heat sucks butt and it expensive.



jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to Murdoc

First you'll want to figure how many BTU's you need to make it comfortable in there. Also just how much time you will be spending in the garage, especially when it goes below zero outside.
Natural gas will be the hands-down winner, cost-to-run wise.
--
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~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~



dolphins
Clean Up Our Oceans
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Westville, NJ
kudos:7
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Murdoc

PSE&G has been using PVC for years. I had the misfortune of hitting a 1/2" PVC line on a property easement that PSE&G failed to designate when I called for a mark-out. As far as I know they have been using it since the late '70s.

Approved materials list But be sure to check with local code.
--
Stop The Mindless Killings Stop Over Fishing



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

PVC or HDPE? I've never seen a PVC gas line. I'm not saying that they don't exist, just never seen one. HDPE seems to dominate here. It's used for gas, electric, phone, cable, and water. It's nice because you can avoid joints underground.



dolphins
Clean Up Our Oceans
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Westville, NJ
kudos:7
Reviews:
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2 edits

Not sure? What I hit was black and unmarked, I just assumed it was PVC.

Well, after a little research it seems they've been using medium density polyethylene since 1960.

The use of plastic piping to transport
natural gas has grown steadily over the
years because of the material’s economy,
outstanding corrosion resistance, light weight,
and ease of installing and joining. According to
the American Gas Association (A.G.A.),1 the
total miles of plastic piping in use in natural gas
distribution systems in the United States grew
from about 9,200 miles in 1965 to more than
45,800 miles in 1970. By 1982, this figure had
grown to about 215,000 miles, of which more
than 85 percent was polyethylene.2 Data
maintained by Office of Pipeline Safety (OPS),
an office of the Research and Special Programs
Administration (RSPA) within the U.S.
Department of Transportation (DOT), indicate
that, by the end of 1996, more than 500,000
miles of plastic piping had been installed.
»www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/1998/SIR9801.pdf

Tried to get some info from AGA but you must be a member to access the info.
--
Stop The Mindless Killings Stop Over Fishing

nocannothave

join:2006-10-14
Kennewick, WA
Reviews:
·Charter

1 edit
reply to Murdoc

Click for full size
The heater
Click for full size
Closeup of the tee supplying the heater
Click for full size
The tee at the gas meter
Click for full size
Closeup of the tee at the meter
I'll get pics of my gas line install and post tomorrow. It's not buried, it's up to code, and it works oh so good. Almost looking forward to winter so I can use it again...

Here they are.


herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

PVC or HDPE? I've never seen a PVC gas line. I'm not saying that they don't exist, just never seen one.
It had a very short life in the 70's. IIRC, it was the first plastic gas pipe followed by PE "Red" which was also short lived.

mworks

join:2006-06-13
Faison, NC
reply to Murdoc

If you are looking for alternatives, these are great for garages. They were designed for construction sites where you would need heat in large areas that may have lots of loss like windows missing or being put in. They put out a ton of heat and quick. They use kerosene so you can refill as needed. Good if you only need occasional usage.
»www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=47&id=33



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

Torpedo/Salamander heaters are great but you have to know their downsides. They put out a fine soot that lands on everything, they consume the oxygen in the room, and they put out carbon monoxide. Nothing wrong with any of that in many circumstances, you just have to be aware of their shortcomings.



Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

good to know there buddy. Its either a proper vented gas heater for me or a couple electric heaters.