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FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to tubbynet

Premium Member

to tubbynet

Re: Yep, not suprised

said by tubbynet:
said by FFH5:

Those who think we should be on the total liberty end of the continuum don't live in the real world
and neither do the people who argue for total security through any means necessary. the only difference is that when [current threat] can be used to invoke fear and worry regarding {national security; terrorism; puppy murder}, the argument is easier to con the masses with.

q.
Obviously you think we are too far towards the total security end of the continuum. I don't think so. That end is populated by N.Korea, Cuba, China, etc. I think we are somewhere in the middle, which most people are comfortable with.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

1 recommendation

tubbynet

MVM

said by FFH5:

Obviously you think we are too far towards the total security end of the continuum.
i made no such assertion.
valid security measures have their place within a society.
however, i feel that most common security measures are (a) reactive and (b) simply meant as "cover your ass" security. rather than changing proactively to the threats that evolve -- we seem to continually be looking for threats and methods that have already been used; the "fool me once" mentality. as much as we'd like there to be a "profile" for the terrorists of today -- there is none -- and to assert otherwise is simply foolhardy. there are many people who want to see us attacked -- but they come from many different walks of life and the "profile" only overlaps at anti-american/anti-government thought.

i don't feel safer because i have a minimum wage highschool graduate filtering through my bags and dumping out their contents (often with no consideration of the value or contents within). i don't feel safer with the fluid limit of 3oz per bottle all fitting in a quart bag for carry-ons. i don't feel safer with my calls and emails being monitored (though if someone *really* wants to read my emails, they are more than welcome to). i don't feel safer when terrorism is used on one side or the other for political gain. i want *common sense* security.

my post was simply meant to counter yours and provide that "fair and balanced" outlook that we all strive for. your assertion was that people who argue for liberty are fools and idiots. my counter was those that strive for a locked down police state are as equally foolish -- because security threats will continue to exist. nothing more. nothing less.

q.

coldmoon
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Fulton, NY

4 recommendations

coldmoon to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:
said by tubbynet:
said by FFH5:

Those who think we should be on the total liberty end of the continuum don't live in the real world
and neither do the people who argue for total security through any means necessary. the only difference is that when [current threat] can be used to invoke fear and worry regarding {national security; terrorism; puppy murder}, the argument is easier to con the masses with.

q.
Obviously you think we are too far towards the total security end of the continuum. I don't think so. That end is populated by N.Korea, Cuba, China, etc. I think we are somewhere in the middle, which most people are comfortable with.
Regardless of what you or "tubbynet" think, the truth is that we have gone too far into the paranoid and lost sight of the sane. When the Government has carte blanch ability to monitor anything they wish, for any reason they wish, without proper and independent Judicial review before said monitoring can take place, you have gone over the garden fence and are goose stepping your way through the field on the other side...

Are there dangers in the world? Without a doubt. Are there evil people in the world? Again, no argument. Can the Government be trusted to overstep their authority (name your branch)? You bet!

This is why the Government was designed with checks and balances in the Constitution. What do you do however when the balance gets so far out of whack you start to suspect that it will never be restored? The answer, as history shows again and again, is that the repercussions can become extreme and unpleasant (to say the least) when the people themselves are forced to act...

Food for thought (I hope)...

JMHO
Mike