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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Great... More Welfare

It really pays to be on the dole these days. Free school lunch, subsidized rent, free food, free health care, free or subsidized cell phones and now low cost broadband, all paid for "courtesy" of the US worker.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Great... More Welfare

I think Comcast is subsidizing this though, not the taxpayer.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Great... More Welfare

said by fifty nine:

I think Comcast is subsidizing this though, not the taxpayer.

For now, yes. How long before this sort of thing becomes a standing welfare benefit, like the free/subsidized cell phones have become?
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Great... More Welfare

said by pnh102:

said by fifty nine:

I think Comcast is subsidizing this though, not the taxpayer.

For now, yes. How long before this sort of thing becomes a standing welfare benefit, like the free/subsidized cell phones have become?

Who knows. But comcast is only really doing this to get the nbc acquisition approved and they have only committed for 3 years.

HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com
And at the low low cost of your dignity, your ability to improve your life or your childrens, security, the ability to move or live where you want and most of the important things in life.

Of course, you are right. We should let them starve in the street. We should let them get sick and die. It is the Christian way after all.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Great... More Welfare

How about we should let them earn something instead of putting their hand out?

HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com

Re: Great... More Welfare

Sure. Are you willing to provide them with a job? I'm sure you don't mind if they have a felony on their record right?

Of course, you probably think - "oh they have a felony, so that is their own problem. Their mistake."

Sure, at which point you decide that any felony conviction is a life sentence of poverty and unemployment.

Where people get the idea that those on welfare are just a bunch of bums holding their hands out and hoping for money, I'll never guess. Every person I know on welfare is generally hard working, or at worst wants to be. Some of them are single moms, which is basically like having two jobs at once.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Great... More Welfare

I actually worked for a welfare agency and while "most" are honest, there is a significant amount of fraud. This is why there is so much money being spent on combating fraud in the system.

With regard to the felony conviction, there are programs to get these people back to work and earn the public's trust. But you can't ignore the fact that someone is a felon. I wouldn't hire someone who was convicted of armed robbery to work in a bank for example.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by HappyAnarchy :

We should let them starve in the street. We should let them get sick and die. It is the Christian way after all.

With regard to people who do not wish to work and expect others to support them, it sure IS the Christian way.

»www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se···sion=NIV
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com

Re: Great... More Welfare

Yeah, the bible is pretty self contradictory on some things. We could quote bible passages back and forth about how the poor are to be treated. Similarly on how the rich are blessed, or the poor are blessed.

One of the reasons I am glad I don't use it as a moral guideline. Makes things much less confusing really.

That said, I am not really surprised but often confused at all this talk about people who don't wish to work. I know a lot of people that wish they could work, or wish that someone would hire them. I know people that wish they could get a job that could support their family.

I even know people that wish they could make a living without working, and a very select few actually live that wish - though it is inevitably because their parents were wealthy rather than any hard work on their part.

I don't know anyone that looks at any welfare program as a free ride.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Great... More Welfare

said by HappyAnarchy :

Yeah, the bible is pretty self contradictory on some things.

Care to provide any citations which back up that statement?

The Bible draws a clear line between people who are poor due to circumstances beyond their control and lazy people who do not want to work. There's a huge difference between helping people who are down on their luck and providing freebies for people who do not want to work.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com

Re: Great... More Welfare

And how would you propose determining that?

Perhaps you would use your judgement? Except that you are to "Judge not lest ye be judged."
If you are wronged (someone taking advantage of your charity) what is the correct answer? To turn the other cheek.

You are supposed to trust in your fellow man, judge them not and provide for the poor - regardless of the reason they are poor.

I can't provide any more specific references than that, primarily because my bible is at home and I prefer to spend my time at home with my family.

So again, how do you determine who is down on their luck and who does not want to work? Most of the welfare programs do have some safeguards in place - to get unemployment you have to be looking for work. Sure, some people game the system, but all systems are gamed. I am willing to provide for them too, as long as people in need are taken care of. I know it is impossible to make an ungameable system.

I am also far more concerned about the large number of companies and extremely wealthy that consistently find ways to get extra bits of my tax dollars despite having no need whatsoever of them than the small percentage of "the welfare state" or whatever epithet you want to use is taking advantage of the system to live at a subsistence level in order to let the vast majority of legitimate cases get help. And I won't complain about the "welfare state" while I do it either.

Which one sounds more like Jesus here?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Great... More Welfare

said by HappyAnarchy :

And how would you propose determining that?

Perhaps try reading it.
said by HappyAnarchy :

Perhaps you would use your judgement? Except that you are to "Judge not lest ye be judged."

LOL. The Christian critics' favorite Bible verse. Where exactly am I passing judgment here, or more particularly, judgment that is not consistent with Christian judgment, as it pertains to where these people will end up when this life is passed (which is the context of this teaching)?
said by HappyAnarchy :

If you are wronged (someone taking advantage of your charity) what is the correct answer? To turn the other cheek.

Ahh, the Christian critics' other favorite Bible verse.

How does this apply to people who do not wish to work.
said by HappyAnarchy :

You are supposed to trust in your fellow man, judge them not and provide for the poor - regardless of the reason they are poor.

I'm supposed to blindly trust people who are all unrighteous (Romans 3 and many other places)? That's a laugh.
said by HappyAnarchy :

So again, how do you determine who is down on their luck and who does not want to work?

Easily. People who are down on their luck are the ones trying to change that situation. People who do not want to work are not doing this.
said by HappyAnarchy :

Most of the welfare programs do have some safeguards in place - to get unemployment you have to be looking for work. Sure, some people game the system, but all systems are gamed. I am willing to provide for them too, as long as people in need are taken care of. I know it is impossible to make an ungameable system.

I am also far more concerned about the large number of companies and extremely wealthy that consistently find ways to get extra bits of my tax dollars despite having no need whatsoever of them than the small percentage of "the welfare state" or whatever epithet you want to use is taking advantage of the system to live at a subsistence level in order to let the vast majority of legitimate cases get help. And I won't complain about the "welfare state" while I do it either.

Which one sounds more like Jesus here?

You might want to look up the passages in the New Testament where Jesus discusses the type of government that we should impose in a given country (hint - there isn't one, Jesus does not teach about government policies). With that in mind, how can you claim to be more "Jesusy" when you've shown you have 0 understanding whatsoever of even the basic tenets of what He teaches? I'm certainly not claiming that I am an expert in Jesus' teachings, but when everything you try to throw out is either incorrect or not within the proper Biblical context, then perhaps it is best you refrain from trying to decide where Jesus would weigh in on this argument.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

kapp0

join:2001-12-16
Belvidere, IL

1 recommendation

Comcast giving $10 internet to low income does affect me. I am a Comcast customer and I have to pay $60 a month for internet. Just because I work 65 hours a week and make good money I should pay like crazy so some less fortunate should get the same thing for less?

Maybe all things should be on a sliding scale and my income would allow me to get a Porsche Cayenne S Turbo for $40,000. After all we are all in need of transportation.

If you can't afford broadband there is always super cheap dial-up.
--
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it all.