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hmm

@videotron.ca

Videotron customer hacked Thousands in bills

»www.montrealgazette.com/life/Hac···ory.html

Videotron customer Amber Hunter has been billed more than $2,200 for four months of service, because her password-protected wireless network was hacked.

"I'm a student, and I work at a bar, and now most of the money I have goes to pay my Internet bill," the 21-year-old Notre Dame de Grace resident said yesterday. "It's more than I pay for school and books, and I don't have a lot of money left for food."

Since August, Hunter has amassed more than $1,800 in charges from Videotron Ltd. because an unauthorized user hacked into her password-protected wireless network. Despite her insistence she couldn't have used what amounted to hundreds of gigabytes of data, on calls to Videotron's customer service, each representative insisted she was responsible for usage stemming from her account. She has paid more than $1,300 since the summer and still owes the company $506. ...continues...


Videotrons "sky is the limit" billing practice bit this girl on the ass.


ggtyh6

join:2005-02-09
h0h0h0

Wherever Videotron's business practices bites this customer, Videotron's TOS is clear: the customer is responsible for securing his wireless network and for any fees relative to a non-secure wireless signal.

Crap, I couldn't find the link to Videotron's TOS...



En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4
reply to hmm

quote:
For a year, Hunter and her roommate were told their usage had exceeded the limit of 30 gigabytes every month and were billed a $50 fee for exceeding the limit.

Hunter said she and her roommate called the company monthly to get an explanation of the charges, and took customer service representatives at their word that they had gone over her limit. When her roommate moved out in July, Hunter upgraded to an Internet package with a download limit of 100 gigabytes but wasn't told there would no longer be a maximum charge.

That's when her bills started to climb.

"I watch a lot of television shows, so I thought that took up a lot of data," Hunter said. "I didn't really know what a gigabyte was until my boyfriend looked at my account and told me there was no way I could have been using that much data."
If that article is in chronological order, it's clearly a problem between the chair and the keyboard. I mean, they've been told FOR A YEAR. By the 3rd month, nobody thought of unplugging the goddamn router, go to Best Buy, buy a new router and configure it properly?
When you get overcharged for a year, don't you wanna know what a gigabyte is and why you're paying for it?

quote:
Speaking for Videotron, Isabelle Dessureault said the company took responsibility by reversing some of its charges, but when a customer repeatedly racks up such high download limits, it becomes her responsibility.
There ya go!
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


gravufo
Coming from another world

join:2010-10-27
Saint-Laurent, QC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX

Seriously, this is really retarded...How is it Vidéotron's fault that you do not secure your wireless connection?

I'm really impressed by how ignorant/stupid people can be. At least have the decency of being curious to at least understand what you're paying for and make sure you get your money's worth.

EDIT: Even my 9 year-old cousin knows what a GB is...


germster

join:2008-11-20
Quebec, QC

2 edits
reply to hmm

Really dumb of her. Warned multiple times and didn't bother to act.

I still don't agree with their billing practices though. You have to have a maximum fees somewhere. Cut the service if you need it, but charging 1300$ for extra gigabytes is unacceptable even if your customer is dumb.

Also, it's not like the average consumer-grade router comes with bulletproof security. AFAIK even WPA2 can be cracked, though you have to really put an effort into it.



JoePro

join:2006-11-01
canada
reply to hmm

It really sucks for her, but all of this is pretty much her fault. I'm amazed that people still don't take wireless security very seriously. From home, I can still see 3-4 unsecured wireless networks.

Having said that, Videotron sould've warned her the 50$ max overage fee didn't apply to her new package since she had gone over the limit for a year. Then again, maybe they did and she didn't clue in.



En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4
reply to germster

said by germster:

I still don't agree with their billing practices though. You have to have a maximum fees somewhere. Cut the service if you need it, but charging 1300$ for extra gigabytes is unacceptable even if your customer is dumb.

There's a 40Gb cap on the High-Speed 7.5Mbit package and you start paying 4,50$ per additional Gb until you reach 50$. That is dumb-proof.
But when you upgrade to higher speeds, you most likely know what a Gigabyte is and you're aware of your OWN internet usage, which is why there's no limit on those packages.

said by JoePro:

Having said that, Videotron sould've warned her the 50$ max overage fee didn't apply to her new package since she had gone over the limit for a year. Then again, maybe they did and she didn't clue in.

That is called the "blame game".
- Videotron customer service employees are not assigned a list of specific customer numbers, so you can't blame someone in particular at Videotron, except the customer who could read the text before the fine prints on Videotron's website.
- The story doesn't tell is the package upgrade a suggestion by a SAC employee or requested by the customer.
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


U got it

@videotron.ca
reply to germster

said by germster:

I still don't agree with their billing practices though. You have to have a maximum fees somewhere. Cut the service if you need it, but charging 1300$ for extra gigabytes is unacceptable even if your customer is dumb.

Which is the point of the Gazette article. Good catch

There is no way videotron can say this person really did use 2000$ in Bandwidth. On some tiers there is a max, higher speed tiers have no max.

How can they say with a straight face that a 7-meg user used 50$ worth of B/W for doing 350-gigs, then tell an old grandfathered 10-meg user or other tier user that they consumed 2000$ worth for doing the same 350-gigs (as an example).

It's almost criminal.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to gravufo

said by gravufo:

Seriously, this is really retarded...How is it Vidéotron's fault that you do not secure your wireless connection?

According to the Gazette article, the router was secured. You might want to read it.


TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to hmm

Here's the better question: why did Vidéotron allow the bill to go so high if they noticed the consumption wasn't usual for her habits?


CrashD1n3r
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Canada

Because it isn't Videotron's problem? Why would they monitor this? Then an idiot would complain of "big brother"...She's stupid plain and simple. Vidéotron actually credited more than 300$ from her account and told her she could have a security breach! She probably secured her wifi using WEP, or a weak WPA password. Took 1 year to actually do something about it? BOOHOO!



En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

Here's the better question: why did Vidéotron allow the bill to go so high if they noticed the consumption wasn't usual for her habits?

Keep reading...
quote:
"It's a case where Videotron showed some understanding and listened to what happened," she said. "We're well-renowned in the industry for our technical support team. We credited her account for $313, but at a certain point, we need to share the responsibility. We don't like these kind of situations."

She added that Hunter was referred to Linksys, the company she bought her wireless router from, to take steps to make her wireless network more secure.

However, Hunter said that she received that phone number only when she called customer service in December to ask for it.
Videotron already credited her account (multiple times?), already advised the over-consuption for a year... Problem is still located at the router, which doesn't belong to Videotron. Do you expect them to send out a technician to unplug a customer's router? No. Do you expect them to keep crediting the customer every month? No. Fix the problem you have in your own house first.

On the other hand, bandwidth cost nothing so Videotron lose nothing by giving her a credit of overcharge, but still gives someone a lesson, considering all this time.

I also can't help but notice that the customer called Vidéotron to obtain Linksys's phone number... Linksys have a website and their phone number for Canada is available there. You don't need to call STC to obtain it.
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX

There shouldn't be any limit to begin with, so this is all a moot point.

I still think ISP are full of shit and knew what was go on and kept letting it happen to get the money. They knew she was stupid, they could have done more, such as throttling service, blocking ports or shutting down the service altogether.

She isn't the first, she isn't the last. Technology is difficult for many people, ISP abuse this by stating it's not their responsibility. If someone steals your Visa card and fills it up, they block the card and you get a call. If it happens multiple times, then you can get investigated.

Should be the same with ISP, at the price they charge.



En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4

said by TigerLord:

If someone steals your Visa card and fills it up, they block the card and you get a call. If it happens multiple times, then you can get investigated.

Should be the same with ISP, at the price they charge.

The investigation was made: it's her router. Customer wanted to continue business with Videotron and do nothing to permanently solve the leaking problem. Her choice, her bill, her consequences.

Credit card companies have customer protection rules and laws, and Terms Of Services. Vidéotron also have TOS for their internet services and the client was free to pick another provider. But oh, nobody told her that?
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
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Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX

They warned her, she might have thought she did something but it wasn't enough. Clearly she isn't tech savvy. She did use a password, but it was too weak and got cracked. She was the victim of crime. Her stupidity, yes, but a crime, too.

So Videotron let it happen so they could keep siphoning her money. After it kept going up they should have called, again, 10 times if need be to make sure everything was OK.



En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4

said by TigerLord:

So Videotron let it happen so they could keep siphoning her money. After it kept going up they should have called, again, 10 times if need be to make sure everything was OK.

Asking for the impossible.
quote:
Videotron is also the Québec leader in high-speed Internet access, with 1,246,500 subscribers to its cable modem service as of December 3, 2010.
Do you really think Vidéotron will pay employees who will call 100+ customers per month out of thr 1.247 million subscribers and tell them they're using a lot of bandwidth, and propose them a credit...

The bill you receive IS your wake-up call. Let it slide for a year and there's a price to pay for stupidity.
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX

Nothing is impossible. It's only impossible if you're a moron, a hypocrite, greedy, or all of the above.

This was CLEARLY a special case and it could have used more follow-up, I didn't say the 1.2 million subscribers should be checked all the time.

This wasn't an ordinary case.


mcren

join:2010-08-20
Quebec, QC

no such things as having emotions in business... im sure everyone shed a tear.

special case!? no offense but you know how many special cases a company has to deal with? every single dumbass calling everyday is a special case. both sides have agreed to respect the rules of the game. If you signed up a contract, then you must be smart enough to deal with the policies. if your not prepared to get screwed by any corporations, then yo better get the f**k out of this province cause that's how things work. Lesson learned, i hope she brightens up in the future.

there are so many more interesting places where this particular company shoulda invested their money. i think they're already spending enough money on costumer service as it is...


DanTou

join:2006-10-14
Quebec, QC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·voip.ms
·Vonage
reply to hmm

You're all missing the point.

Being computer illeterate doesn't mean you're stupid.

It's not her fault if someone hacked into her computer; it's the hackers' fault.

Until companies like Videotron and Bell are forced to give back the money in cases like these; they won't make any effort to find and charge the hacker. Videotron had one year to do it; Videotron has the knowledgeable people to do it. But Videotron doesn't care about its clients. It cares about money. Like charging unreasonnable amount of money for a service that cost Videotron next to nothing.

Hackers are a plague. Until something is done to hunt them, cases like this one will keep happening.

Somebody will now reply it's not illegal to hack into a badly protected router. Wanna bet?



TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to mcren

I agree with your assessment, doesn't mean it's right. That lady was a victim of a CRIME. Punishable by law. It is a special case.



mackey

join:2007-08-20
kudos:6

said by TigerLord:

I agree with your assessment, doesn't mean it's right. That lady was a victim of a CRIME. Punishable by law. It is a special case.

And Videotron was supposed to know someone it was stealing her service and not just her downloading a crapload of stuff how? They contacted her multiple times and she took no action, so how were they to know?

/mackey


TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to hmm

I don't know, maybe the experts they hire in the field of service they are selling?



SalesRep

@videotron.ca
reply to DanTou

@Dantou: So if i get it right, tommorow your brand new mac book air get stoled, by a unknown person whit bad intention, apple should give you another one for free since it wasent your fault ?

You know its really sad she got hacked, but this isnt videotron fault,if she woudnt have used a router, that wouldnt have happen, and the router is your responsibility not videotron one...

I understand and agree that the charge when you go over your cap are ridiculous, but there are in place to prevent people from abusing and are an alternative to trottling...

Stupidity is not an excuses...



hmm

@videotron.ca
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

Here's the better question: why did Vidéotron allow the bill to go so high if they noticed the consumption wasn't usual for her habits?

They could easily put in a system tied to the B/W meter to red flag suspicious account activity w/o compromising a person right to privacy. Similar to as you stated about credit cards.

If an account is on a "sky is the limit" billing system they can easily make something to draw attention to an account when it hits the 300$ mark, as an example, in order to inform a person. But no. It's not in their best corporate interest.

Also I still don't see why they just don't get rid of the "sky is the limit billing" practice.

What is the difference when one does 350-gigs of usage in a month from an 8-meg tier or a 10-meg tier? Or even a 30-meg tier! It's still the same amount of B/W regardless of speed. Yet on one tier they charge a 50$ max and the other tier will be over 1200$.

Yet some people claim it's not the same. heh.

ggtyh6

join:2005-02-09
h0h0h0
reply to SalesRep

If I leave my home, the door remains wide open and my 47 inches tv gets stolen; do you think my insurance company will pay for the tv if the police investigates and find out that I did not do the bare minimum to try to protect it?

Same with Internet access. Bare minimum is: change the ******* default password and rtfm.

This customer paid 1800$ to learn that wifi routers need a little more than just getting it out of the box and plugging it in...



Um No

@videotron.ca

said by ggtyh6:

If I leave my home, the door remains wide open and my 47 inches tv gets stolen; do you think my insurance company will pay for the tv if the police investigates and find out that I did not do the bare minimum to try to protect it?

I suggest you read the article.

You open door analogy and a routers encryption/password being hacked are not comparable.

Nice try though. Once again, I suggest you read the article before making an analogy that doesn't fix the circumstances.

Ssid Silver

join:2010-11-04
reply to hmm

A better analogy would be a credit card account where you get a monthly and running total but not the list of purchases, there is no limit and the fine print says you are responsible to pay for all purchases even if the card number is stolen without your knowledge. Depending on how much higher than normal the bill was, you might have no reason to believe the account was compromised for months. Wifi is convenient but cabled networking has some definite advantages.


CrashD1n3r
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Canada
reply to DanTou

Receiving an invoice with outrageous overcharges for one month is being "computer illiterate". 2-3 months is not caring. ONE FULL YEAR IS PLAIN STUPIDITY. If she doesn't know computers then why didn't she get professional advise? Vidéotron TOLD HER she was probably getting router hacked and she's the ONLY ONE with control over it. There's no excuse here! It isn't like Vidéotron didn't do anything! I personally would've never gave her ANY credit on the account. YOUR ROUTER, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! If Vidéotron would charge for her connection monitoring then it would be different. There's NO REASON for Vidéotron to give away such service for free. It is indeed illegal to hack the router protection but then finding who did it is near impossible so that's why it's important to protect it the right way. About the hackers, I disagree. It's impossible to get rid of them all and real hackers are actually good to us because they force many industries to actually create stronger protection. If she wants to get her money back, then she should call the police and file something about computer thief. Prevention is the best protection.



hmm

@videotron.ca

said by CrashD1n3r:

Receiving an invoice with outrageous overcharges for one month is being "computer illiterate". 2-3 months is not caring. ONE FULL YEAR IS PLAIN STUPIDITY.

If her setup only does WEP she is F*cked since it's hackable.

Has industry Canada recalled routers that only do WEP? Has Industry Canada informed the Canadian population?

Is she supposed to have special knowledge?

Is she supposed to be abreast of 0day exploits?

Does industry Canada keep a 0day exploit site to inform the pubic?

Does Microsoft?

.... No.

There are many things wrong here.

julienvf

join:2008-12-30
Verdun, QC
kudos:1
reply to hmm

The problem here is that it's the Videotron employee who proposed her to switch to TGV30 which has no overage limit. I strongly hope she takes this to court and have the penalty over 50$/month waived for the whole period.