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erikkiehle5
join:2006-10-03
Tuscola, TX

erikkiehle5

Member

Clear wireless throttling lessened?

I was surprised today to see I'm getting good speeds here in Abilene, TX. I had previously been throttled at 1Mbit down. But today I got



SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

There were a couple threads in the Clear forums about changes to the network management system that went into effect on Jan 5th. (ie, »forums.clear.com/clearco ··· _upgrade )

From my quick read of some of the threads I believe the changes are:

- Increased the tower utilization levels before NIMS would start managing connections
- Bumped the individual user limits that the system used to identify who should be throttled. (Individual user usage is not real-time, but is apparently based on a rolling 7 day average)

RobL (Clear rep) had posted that he believed this would vastly reduce the number of people who see their connections throttled.
chex383
join:2003-03-13
Victoria, BC

chex383 to erikkiehle5

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to erikkiehle5
Wow, that's pretty nice. What about the latency? did you find it getting better or worse?
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs to SpaethCo

Member

to SpaethCo
said by SpaethCo:

- Increased the tower utilization levels before NIMS would start managing connections
- Bumped the individual user limits that the system used to identify who should be throttled.

With these changes, I wonder whether the Clear 4G customer experience will start to feel like the Sprint 4G customer experience. While some question the validity of the conclusion, there are scattered anecdotal indications on the DSL Reports fora that throttling is less aggressive to non-existent for Sprint 4G customers like me as compared to Clear 4G customers.

Perhaps Clear's new NIMS mirrors the parameters of the Sprint NIMS system.

Incidentally, if the parameters and operation of NIMS are individual from provider to provider, then my long-standing contention, that one can be a customer on EXACTLY THE SAME NETWORK and yet have vastly different customer experiences, appears perhaps to have been vindicated.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

said by criggs:

Perhaps Clear's new NIMS mirrors the parameters of the Sprint NIMS system.

It's the same system, the controls are at the WiMAX tower radio level.

The system is usage based -- according to all reports both public and private it always has been. Even when it was aggressively first implemented, the majority of the towers never reached a congested state to trigger the throttling process.
said by criggs:

there are scattered anecdotal indications on the DSL Reports fora that throttling is less aggressive to non-existent for Sprint 4G customers like me as compared to Clear 4G customers.

Unless you're matching the consumption levels of the folks who are being throttled, this is a somewhat meaningless indicator. Even in your other thread calling for more information for Sprint users who have previously been throttled, the only response was from someone who scaled back their usage.

Try and find a few threads of folks who say "I was throttled consuming 50GB/mo on Clear, but I switched to Sprint 4G and used 50GB/mo and got full speed the whole time"

I've seen a couple threads with people who got faster speeds, but they also changed devices in the process. So was Clear limiting them, or was their hardware defective, or did the hardware they changed to when switching to Sprint have a better radio in it?
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

I agree. The jury is still out for sure on this question of Clear 4G throttling versus Sprint 4G throttling. But it is a very intriguing question.
ernliz
join:2001-11-25
Albemarle, NC

ernliz to erikkiehle5

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to erikkiehle5
erik.... congrats on the increased speeds. I live north of Abilene -- about 6 miles north of downtown -- and my speeds vary a lot. I think I use/share the WalMart tower closest to ACU, and there's where my capping problem may be at times: college types downloading tons of music and torrents, and basically hoggng the network with their toys.

How many lights do you have on your modem? Mine has 3, and on a good day I get 2 mbps. Most late afternoons I get around 600kbps.

The local Clear store on Southwest Drive is useless for any info about our local network. I only wish Suddenlink Cable would come our way. I'd drop Clear in a minute!

Solearth
join:2009-10-21
Lubbock, TX

Solearth to erikkiehle5

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to erikkiehle5
I noticed on Tuesday, that my speed and QOS improved significantly.
10% QOS to 84% QOS and 1 Mbps to 4 Mbps
Could it be related to the so called Net Neutrality regulation?
If the service remains with a decent QOS and speed, I may stay with Clear for a while.
erikkiehle5
join:2006-10-03
Tuscola, TX

erikkiehle5

Member

I doubt it has anything to do with the FCC net neutrality stuff since that pretty much exempted wireless data networks as far as I know.

I hope it's just more intelligent bandwidth/tower management. It never made any sense that they'd be throttling at off-hours, at least to such low-level speeds. Maybe they upgraded the software to actively share/manage total bandwidth to active data streams evenly instead of capping users who reach a data limit. Doesn't make sense to cap a heavy user during off hours when no or few other users are hitting the tower.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed since it's been a week and the speeds are still decent. I'm off-grid as far as wired high-speed internet. I have no DSL, cable, or fiber option.

I'm also still hounding my neighboring telco to please, please, please negotiate with my telco to absorb my street. I'm in a new subdivision. The western half is operated by a local co-op telco with DSL available in subdivision with future fiber plans. MY telco on the EASTERN side of the subdivision is a legacy telco without DSL availability. Since MY telco hasn't even buried lines in the subdivision and the co-op telco has a DSL distribution hub all of 400 feet from me on the OTHER side of the street I'm hopeful the co-op could absorb my half of the subdivision and I could get wired DSL with better latency. (I am usually in the 200-300ms range, the posted 125ms in the OP was an anomaly).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed either way. If I never have an option besides wireless high-speed I'm hopeful at least that Clearwire is upgrading their net management software with some intelligence.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

said by erikkiehle5:

I hope it's just more intelligent bandwidth/tower management...Maybe they upgraded the software to actively share/manage total bandwidth to active data streams evenly instead of capping users who reach a data limit. Doesn't make sense to cap a heavy user during off hours when no or few other users are hitting the tower. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed since it's been a week and the speeds are still decent.

For the first time in almost three months of use in busy midtown Manhattan, NYC, I THINK I just saw throttling on the Sprint 4G WiMax service.

However it was a far cry from the glacial throttling speeds Clear victims have reported on these fora. My speed dropped from about 9mbps to 4.5 mbps. It was consistent and steady, still with a strong signal, -61 dbm (four bars), and no effect at all on the upload side, which remained a steady .93 mbps.

Since Sprint's own web site only claims a minimum average speed of 3 mbps on its 4G WiMax service, I don't feel there are specific grounds here for a complaint or for dissatisfaction (though it's obviously a tad disappointing to me).

I noted the "slow" speeds at noon Eastern time, when things looked like this:



This was not an isolated reading. It was consistent through several tests, and was mirrored by the results when uploading and downloading from my ftp site.

The throttling period is now over, 90 minutes later. My ftp download/upload results are back to normal, and here's a typical Speedtest result:



So if that's the worst the throttling's ever going to get, I'm relieved.

knighthawktf
@clearwire-wmx.net

knighthawktf to SpaethCo

Anon

to SpaethCo
RobL says a lot of things few ever seem to pan out to reality however.

That said in recent weeks the throttle situation does seem to have improved ever so slightly in the northern Atlanta area. What I've noticed is that some customers that were being capped at .6 now seem to first be downgraded to a 1.2 level for awhile before eventually being degraded down to .6, once engaged though it still stays engaged regardless till things open up at like 3am, then reengaging sometime mid morning. There does seem to have been some tweaks made, I don't find them to have "vastly reduced the number of people" who were getting hit, but that said my experience and most of my customers are of the type to be pulling or trying to pull 50-200gig a month, but maybe those at the real low end (the customers clear probably loves) are not getting flagged as much anymore, hard to tell since they will not give reliable details about the system or their changes.

"What about the latency?"
--
That's simply unlikely to ever change much, nature of the beast to an extent.

knighthawktf

knighthawktf to criggs

Anon

to criggs
"So if that's the worst the throttling's ever going to get, I'm relieved."
--

Haha if that was the worst it ever got on the clear side then it would be a non-issue, sadly though it's not.
ernliz
join:2001-11-25
Albemarle, NC

ernliz to erikkiehle5

Member

to erikkiehle5
said by erikkiehle5:

I hope it's just more intelligent bandwidth/tower management.

Asking again, erik.... how many lights on your Clear modem there in Tuscola?

Are you in an area where the Spring foliage will affect your signal later??
erikkiehle5
join:2006-10-03
Tuscola, TX

erikkiehle5

Member

I have all 5 LEDs. There isn't any foliage around. They plowed under all foliage in the 100 acre subdivision when they started building houses. Closest thing over 18" tall grass is 1000 ft away. Here south of Abilene the tallest trees are all of 15 feet and most of them are naked for the winter.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs to knighthawktf

Member

to knighthawktf
said by knighthawktf :

Haha if that was the worst it ever got on the clear side then it would be a non-issue, sadly though it's not.

Which reinforces what I've increasingly been suspecting lately, which is that, in general, whatever throttling Sprint WiMax customers experience appears not to compare in severity with the Clear WiMax throttling experience.
bgmccollum
join:2004-11-15
San Antonio, TX

bgmccollum to erikkiehle5

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to erikkiehle5
Things getting back to normal? Seems so...



SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo to criggs

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to criggs
said by criggs:

Which reinforces what I've increasingly been suspecting lately, which is that, in general, whatever throttling Sprint WiMax customers experience appears not to compare in severity with the Clear WiMax throttling experience.

I'm still waiting for links to reports for Sprint folks who regularly consume 50-200GB/mo using their 4G service.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

I'd love to have those too!

One difficulty is that Sprint does not provide that information either online or by phone. They have no problem supplying that info for your 3G usage, but they're totally obdurate on the 4G info. They insist that it truly is unlimited and that they keep NO RECORDS AT ALL of people's 4G usage. Obviously they have to keep records because it says right in their terms of service that they reserve the right to throttle, but their position is that they do not have an apparatus in place to track usage on an individual basis. Frustrating, though it says volumes about their degree of confidence in the WiMax network, if they're telling me the truth. Unlikely they are however, I think.

In my own case, for example, I have a vague feeling that I've gone over my erstwhile 3G norm of 14 gigs a month, because of the faster speeds of 4G. But I simply don't know for sure.
erikkiehle5
join:2006-10-03
Tuscola, TX

erikkiehle5

Member




Well after getting a new computer and downloading large software updates / service packs I'm definitely being throttled.

CINR 25
RSSI -58

Guess my OP was right after the month end/billing cycle. I went back and checked and 1/21 was the billing date on my acct. Guess I'll have to wait and see if it eases up before the next billing cycle (3 weeks) or maybe I'll pay my $40 Clear restocking fee and go get a Sprint wireless data account. I'm shying away from that a bit in fear of the huge ETF, but I might have to swallow it if this is going to be my Clear experience for another 3 weeks.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

2 edits

criggs

Member

First of all, I don't know whether you've tried this, but the fact is there is nothing to prevent you from taking the position with Clear that the service is not working as advertised and therefore that you are unhappy and want out without penalty. They might tell you to go **** yourself, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Now, with regard to switching from Clear to Sprint, be advised that you would not have to make the switch in the dark. Sprint offers a 30-day money back guarantee. I know they honor that because I used that option just two months ago.

So, before trying to terminate your Clear account and fighting to be exempted from the ETF, I would first get a Sprint 4G account on spec for 30 days, and see whether you're getting different speeds on that account than on your Clear account.

Hope the above makes sense, and let us know how you make out!

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

rebus9 to erikkiehle5

Member

to erikkiehle5
said by erikkiehle5:

I'm also still hounding my neighboring telco to please, please, please negotiate with my telco to absorb my street. I'm in a new subdivision. The western half is operated by a local co-op telco with DSL available in subdivision with future fiber plans. MY telco on the EASTERN side of the subdivision is a legacy telco without DSL availability.

How far is it across the subdivision? Half a mile or two, or a few hundred feet?
said by erikkiehle5:

the co-op telco has a DSL distribution hub all of 400 feet from me on the OTHER side of the street

Have you spoken to the co-op about how they might be able to provide service on an exception basis, even if they're not the official franchise on your street?
erikkiehle5
join:2006-10-03
Tuscola, TX

erikkiehle5

Member

Well the street in front of my house is the dividing line between telcos. God knows how they draw their maps. The telco will not connect me to the line at the street because I'm not in their service area and they don't want the headache with the state PUC and the (my) telco. I can't blame them. They did say they'd be happy to give me service if I can get a waiver from my telco. However calling my telco gets me a call center in India who doesn't know anything about waivers nor who they could even transfer me to. So I'm currently at the point of begging the co-op telco to use their connections with my telco to see if they could fin a contact/Dept from whom I could request a waiver or whether they could negotiate a redrawing of the maps and have the co-op telco take over the whole subdivision and give "my" telco something somewhere else. Sigh.

Anyone familiar with wirelessnwifi.com? Near as I can tell they resell Sprint wireless 3G/4G unlimited data without having to sign up for a contract. Seems like a slightly more expensive but mug better option over Clear. Anyone with first hand knowledge?

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

rebus9

Member

How friendly are you with the neighbors across the street?

If I found myself in the position where my neighbors could get internet service I desperately wanted but couldn't get myself, I'd make them a deal by offering to pay the full monthly cost if they'll have DSL installed. Let them use it for free (as an incentive) and setup a point-to-point wireless link between houses. Tiny directional wi-fi antennas are dirt cheap; even the external ones.

If the houses are close enough, you don't even need antennas. A wireless access point near the window would be more than enough. A nice unit like a Buffalo WHR-HP-GN (high-power, comes from the factory with ddWRT firmware) would make a great bridge between houses, and a pair of them would set you back less than $100 total. From across the street with a pair of WHR-HP-GN's, you should get at or near 100% of the DSL circuit's full speed.

It's a set-it-and-forget-it thing you could do in about an hour, the neighbor would get free internet out of the deal, and you'd get the service you want. Win-Win.

My $0.02.
erikkiehle5
join:2006-10-03
Tuscola, TX

erikkiehle5

Member

I'd love to but there's no house across the street yet. This subdivision is still being built out. I've got one house kind of diagonally across the street but we're on 1 acre lots so it would be a stretch (that house is also on a corner and snuggled up on the corner where I'm centered on my mid-street lot, so about 500ft between houses).
A builder has started grading to prep a pad for a new house directly across the street. Once it's built, sold, and occupied I will indeed approach the new neighbor if I don't have any other options by then. Strangely my wife doesn't seem to agree with me that we ultimately might have to go buy another lot on the other side of the street and custom-build a home in the other telco.

I'm still considering wirelessnwifi for a no-contract month-to-month 3g/4g USB stick with a Cradlepoint router. I can get the USB stick service for very close to what I'm paying for Clear now, and the Cradlepoint routers are available used for acceptable prices on eBay. This leaves me with options to cancel service if I get a good neighbor across the street or if the telcos can work out a waiver or boundary change in my favor.