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pandora
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1 edit

Penguin no overflow or Champion 4 which to get?

We have a toilet that was produced shortly after Congress required the low flow standard. Over the years it has increasingly clogged. About a year or so ago, I purchased a Champion 4 toilet for another bathroom in the house, and it hasn't clogged.

While searching at Lowes, the salesperson indicated they have a Penguin no overflow toilet. This seems interesting. I came home, and saw the video, am not certain. The Champion 4 has a 4" flush valve the Penguin 4 has a 3" and seems to use only 1.28 gallons.

Not to sound evil, but I'm not concerned with even more water savings from the Penguin toilet, and am concerned that 1.28 gallons won't create enough flow to push much down. It's nice that it is designed to fail without flooding my home, and the concept seems interesting. If it weren't for the 1.28 gallon per flush, I'd be less concerned.

There was a thread recently about toilets, and I don't recall the Penguin being mentioned. Has anyone had experience with these? Any constructive comments or suggestions? The Penguin video follows:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTH3Wpqi990

--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
The overflow prevention should work well - same basic system as a sink.

Lowes online has 5 reviews:
»www.lowes.com/pd_164841-19225-52···ryType=1

All of them very good. Seems to be more about the overflow than how it works in general though.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by CylonRed:

The overflow prevention should work well - same basic system as a sink.

Although neither work if the blockage is further down the line.

pandora
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said by ropeguru:

Although neither work if the blockage is further down the line.

How often does blockage occur further down the line?

Also looking at the video, isn't some of the traps 2" used for the overflow? Doesn't that increase the potential for a clog?
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by pandora:

said by ropeguru:

Although neither work if the blockage is further down the line.

How often does blockage occur further down the line?

Also looking at the video, isn't some of the traps 2" used for the overflow? Doesn't that increase the potential for a clog?

In the sink situation, normally that is where it occurs. The P trap.

Cannot say specifically for toilets..


cdru
Go Colts
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Fort Wayne, IN
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reply to pandora
said by pandora:

Not to sound evil, but I'm not concerned with even more water savings from the Penguin toilet, and am concerned that 1.28 gallons won't create enough flow to push much down. It's nice that it is designed to fail without flooding my home, and the concept seems interesting. If it weren't for the 1.28 gallon per flush, I'd be less concerned.

We got I believe this toilet about a year and half ago. Yes we've had a few clogs, but far fewer then what we've had with our other toilets, neither of which are energy efficient. The one that we bought flushes much quicker, obviously uses less water, and it much quieter then the other ones. I wouldn't necessarily equate insufficient flushing power with the gallons per flush rating.


jjoshua
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Scotch Plains, NJ
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reply to pandora

pandora
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I'm leaning toward the American Standard Champion 4. It isn't inexpensive, but it seems to work. American Standard generally is well understood.

I couldn't find a Toto toilet product listed at Lowes or Homedepot websites.
--
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CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
Toto sells via plumbing supply houses - they have a locator on the website.

pandora
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I'm not a plumber, and can already guess this will be expensive and exotic.


Gbcue
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Santa Rosa, CA
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reply to pandora
4" valve FTW.


jjoshua
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3 edits
reply to pandora
You get what you pay for at homedepot and lowes. It cost a bit more but it's worth it in the long run.

»www.efaucets.com/detail.asp?Prod···T744S-03

Also, spring for the soft-close seat - it's well worth the extra price.


CylonRed
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reply to pandora
They have a model I want - Toto lists it at $450 or so - not bad frankly...

pandora
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reply to jjoshua
Thanks, it made me take another look at the Toto product. I visited their website from the link in this thread, clicked on the videos, and nothing produced any sound. All videos had no sound, and they present product detail via video.

To me a bad website, one that doesn't work is a great warning about potential support issues. They are relying on a website to present videos which produce no sound for a customer. If they can't design a website, I'm not about to trust their other engineering.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

pandora
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reply to CylonRed
As I mentioned earlier, if their website worked, I'd have reconsidered Toto, but the link you kindly offered earlier in this thread contains links to many videos, not one of them produced sound on my PC. As this seems to be the desired venue for Toto to communicate it's product and features, I'm going to continue with the default Champion 4. Kudos to both American Standard and the makers of the Penguin toilet for having working websites. Penguin used youtube to host it's video, which imo indicates they understand the need for a compatible video display function on their website.
--
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dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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reply to pandora
Champion 4 rules. Highly recommended.

A /true/ throne.


CylonRed
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Bloom County
reply to pandora
Huh? I had a link to Lowes Penguin reviews... The Toto website works fine - I don't see where they even have videos of the product working. Toto has a great reputation btu you can get some basic ones for a decent price.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


jjoshua
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Scotch Plains, NJ
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reply to pandora
Not sure why you asked for advice here if you're just going to buy a toilet based on the company's web site.

pandora
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reply to CylonRed
Sorry, I can't get the toto videos to produce sound. The videos are off the toto link in this thread. It doesn't make any sound for me on IE or Opera.
--
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pandora
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reply to jjoshua
said by jjoshua:

Not sure why you asked for advice here if you're just going to buy a toilet based on the company's web site.

I was hoping to compare two products, a 3rd (the toto) was introduced. The website isn't working for me, and I can't get information about how to use it.

In 2011, if a company can't get it's product website down correctly, particularly if it's the companies idea to present their products features via video, then they aren't going to get my business, unless I get some sterling reviews here.

So far that hasn't happened. I haven't read much about the Penguin no overflow toilet, and wanted opinions. Overflowing isn't really as much a problem as clogging in my home. Without much in the way of first hand reviews of the Penguin or Toto toilet, I'll stick with the Champion 4 even though it costs a few bucks more.

Thanks all for your help.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

ncbill
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join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC
American Standard is a poor imitation of Toto.

The Toto Eco Drake (Eco = 1.28 instead of 1.6) is what we used.

Got mine from homeclick.com.


UHF
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reply to pandora
I don't have a Toto, but the next crapper I buy will be. My brother in law bought one for his house. His kid can clog almost any toilet, the only one he hasn't clogged yet is the Toto. They were highly recommended over the years on the usenet alt.home.repair group.


macsierra8
Baby Newfoundland
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join:2003-11-30
Minden, NV
reply to pandora
Kohler Cimarron K3489

Residential, but flushes like a commercial. Never has failed to flush in 2 years. About $400 at Home Depot

»www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/···num=3489
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ImpldConsent
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reply to pandora
I'll be a vote for the Champion. Had one since 2004 and is working well. The new ones have better flushing gear now; however, I haven't had mine clogged yet. YMMV
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pandora
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reply to dennismurphy
I installed a Champion 4 today. Install went from 11AM until 2PM with a few 5 minute breaks and some time to read and re-read instructions as necessary.

The Champion 4 came from Home Depot, included a seat. It seems to be a dual flush and is higher than my other seats.

Overall it went in easily and seems to have no leak issues. The interior of the top was pre-installed, and only had to be mounted on the bowl.

The instructions were good, and all parts were included in the sealed box we purchased.

Thanks everyone for your help.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."