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WarningU2
Premium
join:2002-10-27
Burlington, ON

Bell Fibe

So I'm hearing Bell Fibe (Fibre) will be in Burlington next year (from a recent email inquiry to Bell Canada).

»fibetv.bell.ca/en/features/overview/

Just curious if others out there are considering the big switch?

According to what I am reading the new service from Bell leaves Cogeco in the dust.

I'm personally very interested in the number of HD stations and the ability of watching PVR'd shows on all the TV's in my house.

Time to step up Cogeco ... advantage Bell. Love.



squircle

join:2009-06-23
Oakville, ON

Don't confuse Bell's Fibe with Fibre (which it most certainly is not). Fibe is ADSL2+ and VDSL2, both of which run over your phone lines. The whole "fibre" thing is just a marketing gimmick; the closest a piece of fibre will get to your home is at the remote DSLAM or CO closest to your house.

I'm in Oakville and just switched away from Fibe 16 and over to Cogeco's Ultimate 30, and I haven't looked back. Cogeco has much, much better peering agreements, lower latency, and fewer problems (less downtime).

Bell's FibeTV, however, is much superior (IMO) to Cogeco's Digital Cable offerings. The STBs are using fast, modern software and up-to-date hardware, and the experience is better overall. However, I think it's ludicrous that they require you to subscribe to internet service and TV service through them; there's no way to get TV-only (which I would do in a heartbeat if it was available here). Bell's FibeTV is IPTV (which runs over your internet connection), requiring access to Bell's network (the TV traffic runs over a private VLAN that is split by your router into two separate PPPoE sessions and routed differently across Bell's network).

And you have to be sure to take anything the propaganda marketing machine at Bell says with a grain of salt. They'll tell you anything to sell you their service. I've even had chat sessions with Bell salespeople who insist that Fibe will be fibre installed directly to my home (which is only true in Québec, QC).

I guess we'll see if Cogeco decides to implement some form of IPTV, but I really doubt it. After all, Cogeco is a cable company.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by squircle:

I guess we'll see if Cogeco decides to implement some form of IPTV, but I really doubt it. After all, Cogeco is a cable company.

Cogeco doesn't need to implement IPTV. They'll be using SDV which functions similarly to IPTV but directly over a cable plant, bypassing the IP layer.

And no, Bell Fibe doesn't "leave Cogeco in the dust" - far from it. Reading that made me laugh.

Barber_91

join:2004-01-14
Kingston, ON

I just switched from Bell TV to Cogeco. Not because I want to, but because we are getting a year of free service with Cogeco in our new house.

Just wanted to add that I don't find Squircle's comment amusing at all. From what I've seen on Cogeco in the past 3 months, Bell SATELLITE TV leaves Cogeco in the dust - never mind FIBE.

Clunky set top boxes, old outdated guides, and pixellation like mad. It's junk.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by Barber_91:

Just wanted to add that I don't find Squircle's comment amusing at all. From what I've seen on Cogeco in the past 3 months, Bell SATELLITE TV leaves Cogeco in the dust - never mind FIBE.
Clunky set top boxes, old outdated guides, and pixellation like mad. It's junk.

Considering this whole discussion was about Fibe, yes, it was an amusing comment, amusing enough to actually make me laugh out loud and my girlfriend to ask me what was so funny when I read it. Nothing to do with television at all.

Now, as for TV, there's really nothing so spectacular about Bell's service that would make me choose it over Cogeco. Yes, Bell has a (barely) better guide, and the PQ might better on some specific feeds, but I'm not giving them a dime. I would much rather give Cogeco my money than those motherfucking bastards at Bell Canada. Doing so means I would be complicit and supportive of all of their tactics - everything from outsourcing just about everything they can to Johnny Bangalore, to perverting the CRTC into buying into wholesale UBB, to backhanded marketing, lies, tying people into contracts they never signed up for, etc. Cogeco isn't perfect, but they're knights in shining armour compared to Bell Canada.


IPTVforme

@teksavvy.com
reply to WarningU2

said by WarningU2:

According to what I am reading the new service from Bell leaves Cogeco in the dust.

I have used it in Toronto, and yes, it makes Cogeco look like it's from the 1980's. I have Cogeco TV now and really can't stand it. From sound drops to lagging channels, crappy picture quality, it's horrible.

FibeTV is awesome because you get more HD stations (worth the extra cash there), better PQ and you can record any show from online. It's way better than cogeco on so many levels.

If it actually ever gets to a cogeco area is the real question, it's better, but will it be available.

Barber_91

join:2004-01-14
Kingston, ON

Have to agree with Gone though on not wanting to pay Bell a dime. They will say anything to you to get you to spend more money and their customer service was always incredibly incompetent.

We need to re tool the whole cable company thing!!



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to IPTVforme

said by IPTVforme :

I have used it in Toronto, and yes, it makes Cogeco look like it's from the 1980's. I have Cogeco TV now and really can't stand it. From sound drops to lagging channels, crappy picture quality, it's horrible.
FibeTV is awesome because you get more HD stations (worth the extra cash there), better PQ and you can record any show from online. It's way better than cogeco on so many levels.
If it actually ever gets to a cogeco area is the real question, it's better, but will it be available.

Ah I missed that it was FibeTV in the original post. That's also coming to St. Catharines next year - or so Bell says, we know how "truthful" they are. Yes, it is better than Cogeco, and anything else that's MPEG2 based out there which includes Bell's satellite TV, any of the other cable providers, etc. Bell's IPTV uses H.264 for compression which, even at half the bitrate, provides far better picture quality than MPEG2.

But, consider this - Shaw TV is switching some of its content to H.264 this summer. Cogeco's new boxes are also H.264 capable. Satellite providers in the US have been using H.264 since before FibeTV even existed. It's nothing super special that is somehow going to be the exclusive realm of Bell. It is only a matter of time before the cable companies are going to move to the exact same setup. Not only does it provide better picture quality, but also significantly reduces the space each channel requires. It's going to be cheaper for cable companies to upgrade their headends (along with SDV) and digital receivers to be H.264 capable rather than constantly upgrade the plants from 750 to 860 to 1GHz to 1.3GHz etc etc as more high definition content becomes available.

Now, knowing that H.264 uses less bandwidth, Bell isn't using it because it's better, Bell is using it because delivery TV over DSL doesn't have the bandwidth to support MPEG2 video streams. The fact that it's a better picture is just a side effect of that. This goes back to my further point - I would rather give my money to Cogeco, even though they're only running MPEG2 right now, than to those motherfuckers at Bell Canada who will do anything and everything to fuck over their customers in any way possible. As I said earlier, Cogeco is not free from fault, but they are in no way compatible to Bell and their culture of corruption.

Phorkster
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Windsor, ON
kudos:1
reply to WarningU2

I would never leave to go to Bell for any service. Period.

Expand your moderator at work


hagbard72

join:2000-10-02
Kingsville
reply to WarningU2

Re: Bell Fibe

Cogeco to Bell? Frying pan into fire.



squircle

join:2009-06-23
Oakville, ON
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

I would much rather give Cogeco my money than those motherfucking bastards at Bell Canada. Doing so means I would be complicit and supportive of all of their tactics - everything from outsourcing just about everything they can to Johnny Bangalore, to perverting the CRTC into buying into wholesale UBB, to backhanded marketing, lies, tying people into contracts they never signed up for, etc. Cogeco isn't perfect, but they're knights in shining armour compared to Bell Canada.

I completely agree, hence my hesitance to switch to Bell even if FibeTV was available here in Oakville. I've just spent the past year becoming Bell-free, but if Bell's offering is truly superior (which I can't definitively say for myself), it's something I may consider. And from when I've called in, it seems as though all of their FibeTV people are local/Canadian (but I suppose it's only time before they're outsourced too).

I hope what I've said didn't offend anybody too much (I could easily go on an hour-long tirade slandering Bell), but after all, it's just an opinion. I only intended to talk about the merits of the technologies, not the companies behind them. FWIW, I love Cogeco, and just like I said in my first post, I haven't looked back to Bell.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

I use Bell for telephone for reliability, as I was having anomalous issues with Cogeco's phone offerings (calls going to voice mail, yet the phone didn't ring, "your modem has a problem" x 2) and I never have problems with POTS so I never need to learn a new language to speak with to Bell's reps, so I'm good there.

For TV, at my old place, I found the 'premium' station's I'd watch that were available with Cogeco were far too compressed for my liking, it was distracting. I went with Bell, which I found to look much better; however it was pricey and I've recently turned frugal, dropped pay-TV and went OTA.

(I might switch back to Cogeco after they improve the quality of their TV offerings in my area, if that's even possible.)

Have three friends that are waiting to evaluate Fibe in their area. After a few friends received overage warnings and spoke to people who made accusations as opposed to a warning and deal, they immediately switched to Bell... so I'm waiting to hear back from them... or waiting for Cogeco to offer an Ultimate 30 for business in my area. Or something with fast speeds and a sensible cap.



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to WarningU2

This thread promoted to me re-check Fibe's pricing and availability in my area and I've discovered:

1) For a change, Bell is actually more open than Cogeco, in that you can easily discover their pricing on the same page they advertise their packaged price by clicking on a +. Unlike Cogeco, you don't have to hunt through fine print or multiple links to discover what a package really costs. Does Cogeco have Bad web designers or nefarious corporate decision makers? You decide.

2) It seems it's $72.95 for a 25/7 plan, 195 GB with Bell Fibe. How does that stack up with Cogeco's offerings with their ultimate plans?

3) Is there a secret web page that actually shows what Cogeco's real prices are? (Where you don't have to punch in addresses and all that BS) Something like what Bell has... or better?



WarningU2
Premium
join:2002-10-27
Burlington, ON
reply to squircle

said by squircle:

Don't confuse Bell's Fibe with Fibre (which it most certainly is not). ... they require you to subscribe to internet service and TV service through them ...

Thanks for the great discussion here folks.

Just to clarify I was only referring to their new TV service. Cogeco Internet and support is light years ahead. (I hope that doesn't make anyone choke and lol but that's my opinion, from my experience with Bell tech support (to assist my brother with his Internet), and the awful service/connection/capping he suffers.

I haven't seen anywhere on their website that you have to have internet through them to get the new fibe TV service but I believe you. I won't switch or even dream anymore. Thanks for saving me the frustration of that argument and lost hope.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to squircle

said by squircle:

And from when I've called in, it seems as though all of their FibeTV people are local/Canadian (but I suppose it's only time before they're outsourced too).

New sales staff is -always- Canadian - after all, they don't want people talking to someone they can't understand when they're trying to get them to spend money. Once they've got you, then everything else is based out of India - billing, technical support, customer service, etc. That's when the fun begins.

I have absolutely nothing against offshore support. In fact, I've dealt with some support based out of India that was top notch. The problem is that Bell puts in the absolute minimum effort, and no doubt pays for the absolute cheapest offshore support and provides them with next to no training, and it shows when you call them.

At least when you call Cogeco you know you're either getting someone at the in-house call centre on the Burloak border, or one of the outsourced guys in Burlington or Barrie. There are times when the support isn't perfect, but you at least don't have a language barrier and can (sometimes) use logic to get your point across. If that doesn't work you know there's a good chance if you hang up and call back the experience will be ten times better. With Bell, if you're having a good experience, it's more likely to suck the next time you call back.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

1) For a change, Bell is actually more open than Cogeco, in that you can easily discover their pricing on the same page they advertise their packaged price by clicking on a +. Unlike Cogeco, you don't have to hunt through fine print or multiple links to discover what a package really costs. Does Cogeco have Bad web designers or nefarious corporate decision makers? You decide.

I don't think this is a Cogeco problem so much as it is cable companies in general. I agree that it's something they need to work on, but it's not as if they're any worse than any other Canadian cable company with how they market themselves.

said by urbanriot:

2) It seems it's $72.95 for a 25/7 plan, 195 GB with Bell Fibe. How does that stack up with Cogeco's offerings with their ultimate plans?

$109.99 a month for what is effectively unlimited 30/1.5 from Cogeco, or $117.95 to 132.95 for up to 300GB on Bell's Fibe 25, and then their $1/GB charge or whatever it is with no limit thereafter? You tell me what is better.

If Bell still had the $30 maximum limit with no 300GB barrier, I'd actually consider Fibe 25 the far better package.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by Gone:

I don't think this is a Cogeco problem so much as it is cable companies in general. I agree that it's something they need to work on, but it's not as if they're any worse than any other Canadian cable company with how they market themselves.

*sigh* You're right; there was a time I'd rate Cogeco higher than being 'no worse than any other Canadian cable company'...

said by Gone:

said by urbanriot:

2) It seems it's $72.95 for a 25/7 plan, 195 GB with Bell Fibe. How does that stack up with Cogeco's offerings with their ultimate plans?

$109.99 a month for what is effectively unlimited 30/1.5 from Cogeco, or $117.95 to 132.95 for up to 300GB on Bell's Fibe 25, and then their $1/GB charge or whatever it is with no limit thereafter? You tell me what is better.

You've gone and confused me, not hard, so I'll have to branch this out into two more questions:

2a) If I want to monetarily compare a Cogeco plan with Bell's $72.95, 25/7, 195GB plan, what's closest? So, say I like the idea of paying less than $80 for fast internet with a 200GB cap, does Cogeco have something similar in terms of pricing to compete?

2b) How does one get that 'unlimited' 30/1.5 plan from Cogeco for $109.99? I can't seem to bring it up on their page or is there a 'trick' I'm unaware of to get it? (Their business plan is out of this world in pricing so I'm guessing it's not that)


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by urbanriot:

sigh* You're right; there was a time I'd rate Cogeco higher than being 'no worse than any other Canadian cable company'...

Yeah I know, racing to the bottom. It's a shame.

said by urbanriot:

You've gone and confused me, not hard, so I'll have to branch this out into two more questions:
2a) If I want to monetarily compare a Cogeco plan with Bell's $72.95, 25/7, 195GB plan, what's closest? So, say I like the idea of paying less than $80 for fast internet with a 200GB cap, does Cogeco have something similar in terms of pricing to compete?

The offerings are different, and you can't really compare Ultimate 30 to Fibe 25. Bell offers $5 insurance packs (maximum of 3), Cogeco (right now) doesn't. But, Cogeco also doesn't have a hard limit before they start charging you again. You hit the $50 on Ultimate 30 and that's it, no more. You know you're not going to pay more than $109.99 a month for Ultimate 30, ever. If you burn through the 195GB on Fibe 25 you're paying $1/GB to a maximum of $60, so anything above 255GB is "free" but you're also now up to $132.95. Once you hit 300GB all bets are off, you're paying $1/GB over that and there's no limit as to how much they can charge you. If you go above 300GB on Ultimate 30, you're still only paying $109.99.

said by urbanriot:

2b) How does one get that 'unlimited' 30/1.5 plan from Cogeco for $109.99? I can't seem to bring it up on their page or is there a 'trick' I'm unaware of to get it? (Their business plan is out of this world in pricing so I'm guessing it's not that)

$59.99 + $50 maximum transfer charge = $109.99. Sure, it's not officially unlimited in that they can cut you off if you hammer the node, but in the grand scheme of things you should be able to pull down a shitload of data on a DOCSIS 3 node before the NOC even notices you.

I do agree though that Cogeco really needs to replace their 16Mbit business plan with 30Mbit for the same price, or even slightly cheaper. Not that it would matter to any of us here in Niagara, we'll probably have to wait until 2024 until Cogeco gets off their ass and actually installs a DOCSIS 3 CMTS into the few headends that are here. Then again, Fibe 25 isn't available anywhere in the Niagara Region either. Best we have is Fibe 16 in some parts of St. Catharines and in a very small area of Niagara Falls around the Victoria Ave CO.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..

said by Gone:

you should be able to pull down a shitload of data on a DOCSIS 3 node before the NOC even notices you.

Hmmm. So much for UBB being an economic ITMP eh?



Mike
--
-- UBB: There IS something you can do - ask me (PM)


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by dillyhammer:

Hmmm. So much for UBB being an economic ITMP eh?

Duh. Everyone knows it has nothing to do with traffic management and everything to do with revenue generation.

Still, I will admit as much as I hate paying more than $80 a month for a 14/1 connection, it's still better than when they cut you off at 80GB for Standard and 130 (it was 100GB at the time, no?) on Pro.


rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·loclhost.ca
reply to WarningU2

The new Bell HD receivers run on MPEG4 at full 720p resolution and it's about as good as it's going to get. Mind though, you have to have good visibility to the south-west of your location, as well you will experience rain fade and attenuation due to weather systems passing between you and the line-of-sight to the bird.

Cogeco's quality may be less than Bell's as far as TV goes, but their reliability is higher due to the non-existance of weather issues due to their transmission medium.

As for FIBE, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. It's still DSL and is still going to have the same limitations of said medium. Cogeco's cable internet is way more powerful and robust of a system and DSL will never be able to compete. Now, if some company decided to start dropping fiber pairs right to the home like they're doing with FIOS, I'd be looking at that company first before anyone else.