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jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD

jammmin

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The mystery behind Verizon's IPTV implementation

With all the talk the past few months regarding the upcoming IMG 1.9, there has been "no leaks" from Verizon or otherwise regarding implementation of IPTV.

As we all know, Verizon is currently out of capacity to add new channels and thus, IPTV is the way being considered.

Are they working on it behind the scenes? I am not going to even ask about possible release dates, but there has been absolutely no info coming from Verizon or otherwise regarding its IPTV plans currently.

I remember Twitter Joe mentioning sometime ago that Verizon will not release any info regarding IPTV so as to not give a heads up to the competition(eg. Comcast). He might not be aware that Comcast isn't lying around waiting for Verizon to introduce IPTV. I believe Comcast's Philly area has about 30+ HD channels that Verizon does not offer in addition to Docsis 3.0 100+ megabit speeds and working on finalizing 75 megabit upstream speeds.

With all the improvements in Coax technology, I don't see Comcast or the other cable companies switching to fiber anytime soon as some folks here thought the advent of FIOS would have caused. I don't believe the cable companies are worried as Verizon would like them to even much less now since Verizon has stoppped expanding FIOS beyond their current franchise areas.
bobbailey
join:2008-11-22
Providence, RI

bobbailey

Member

TJ did have this exchange yesterday for what it's worth....

sox1918 Jim D
@FiOSTV How's the IPTV coming?

FiOSTV Verizon FiOS TV
@sox1918 chugging probably a trial starting in the near term
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL to jammmin

Premium Member

to jammmin
I've hit on this before, but my question is (at least as far as Comcast is concerned): their next move is... what, exactly? What changes will be made by Comcast to get through this next brick wall?

I'm not exactly impressed by what Comcast has done so far. DirecTV started launching more HD channels, so Comcast responded by counting VOD titles as HD channels. Then when that didn't work they responded by... upping compression. I don't care what anyone says, I CAN see the difference. Next, they eliminated analogs. That's great.... it's also a move that Verizon made over 2 years ago. I don't exactly consider that being on the 'cutting edge'.

Now that they've gotten to this point, though, the question, like I said is: what now? What's Comcast's next move? SDV? MPEG-4? Personally I think Comcast is likely to sit on its hands for the intermediate future. While Comcast managed to JUST get to where other competitors got a couple years ago (RCN also eliminated analogs, e.g.), how long do you think it'll be before they move past their current architecture? Other providers have started moving to the next stage.

Next, DOCSIS 3.0 is a great jump forward, but there is a practical limit as to how much they can squeeze out of copper. Finally, the numbers don't lie. Comcast has been bleeding video customers for a couple years now. While they're still the largest video supplier in the country, that will only last so long if they continue to lose customers at a clip of a couple hundred thousand per quarter, like they've been doing.

They're outrageously slow to innovate - look at that HD guide that they're supposed to roll out. They've been talking about it for how long now? How many markets have it? Spending time at my wife's uncle's house the other day I still am amazed at just how horrible their guide is. I compare that to 1.9 and it's not even a fair fight.
Expand your moderator at work

sashwa
Mod
join:2001-01-29
Alcatraz

sashwa to JPL

Mod

to JPL

Re: The mystery behind Verizon's IPTV implementation

Back to topic please. Thread is about Vz implementation of IPTV not Comcast's implementation.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

1 recommendation

JPL to jammmin

Premium Member

to jammmin
Sorry about that. The tenor of the OP, though, was in measuring how Verizon is responding to the competition brought forward by companies like Comcast. The notion being that fiber isn't the advantage that it was seen as being. I'm just trying to dispute that. I'll get back on topic .

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt to bobbailey

Premium Member

to bobbailey
Bob-
Interesting find there from Twitter Joe...
jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD

jammmin

Member

So when Verizon finally introduces IPTV, is it going to be a game changer in the industry where thousands of people((possibly millions) switching from cable/satellite to FIOS.

Why do I think this will not happen. As long as FIOS continues to put a halt to new FIOS rollout(in terms of obtaining franchises), they will not grow as fast as they would like which benefits cable companies.
bgtimber75
join:2006-06-23
Columbia, MD

bgtimber75

Member

As long as Verizon is going to continue to position itself as quality over value I don't see that many people switching even when they get Knitting channel in HD.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL to jammmin

Premium Member

to jammmin
I think it CAN be a game-changer, but not in terms of bringing over hundreds of thousands of subscribers, although I also think there are a number of customers on the edge - holding off on making a change because of one or two channels. I think, just like when DirecTV raised the bar by adding HD channels, it'll force other providers to respond.

Then again I don't see Verizon's IP solution as being limited to just increasing bandwidth. They appear to be willing to take it much further than that

guppy_fish
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Palm Harbor, FL

2 recommendations

guppy_fish to jammmin

Premium Member

to jammmin
I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon.Not that anyone really cares, but I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I have seen it all and know when the ship is sinking.

TJ, is a paid propaganda mouth piece for the company plan. He will say whatever BS he is instructed to say or write to put Verizon in a favorable light, that's his job.

Projects get canned and backup plans implemented all the time in industries. IPTV would have be be flawless and coming from a company that can't get minor STB releases out more than once a year and VOD that has perpetual outages and hiccups, IPTV just isn't possible from this company.

What is available, and as time marches forward is a very simple to implement is Mpeg4 which will double the HD channel space. Most content providers already provide this and the ONLY thing stopping Verizon is the now being phased out 6*** STB's.

I believe we will see late this year, this decision forced upon management, with promises of a even better IPTV experience in future ( think Hydrogen economy )

It takes failures of deliverable's to make these changes and Verizon's internal programming has proven one thing in the last 5 years, they haven't had a deadline they couldn't miss by at least a year.

IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt to JPL

Premium Member

to JPL
I wouldn't lose any sleep dreaming over IPTV at the current moment...

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff to guppy_fish

MVM,

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon. ... snip ... IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4

I sure hope so. IPTV on FiOS without a viable CableCARD solution means Cablevision or DirecTV gets my business.

MPEG4 seems like a much better idea, imo. DirecTV made the switch years ago and it's paid off. I know there are a lot of boxes out there that do not support MPEG2, but that's the cost of doing business - upgrades need to take place.

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by Thinkdiff:

IPTV on FiOS without a viable CableCARD solution means Cablevision or DirecTV gets my business.

MPEG4 seems like a much better idea, imo.

Are there any retail CableCARD devices that support MPEG4?
jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD

jammmin

Member

Why has AT & T been able to have IPTV from the start(5 years ago) and Verizon still struggling to implement it?

Is Verizon trying to implement a different type of IPTV system than AT & T Uverse?

Zero5
join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA

Zero5

Member

Oh yes. AT&T's IPTV has many limitations and complaints about PQ, plus they started from the ground up with IPTV not transitioning from QAM to IP.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff to DocDrew

MVM,

to DocDrew
said by DocDrew:

said by Thinkdiff:

IPTV on FiOS without a viable CableCARD solution means Cablevision or DirecTV gets my business.

MPEG4 seems like a much better idea, imo.

Are there any retail CableCARD devices that support MPEG4?

The TiVo HD and TiVo Premier already support playback of MPEG4 (h264), just not on Cable. I'm sure if Verizon switched to MPEG4, it wouldn't be a terribly difficult update for TiVo to implement MPEG4 playback.

I think Windows Media Center can also playback MPEG4 (again, just not setup for MPEG4 over cable currently).
jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD

jammmin

Member

The "average" consumer(95% or more of the population I think) does not give a hoot about IPTV, Docsis 3.0, MPEG 4 etc. They just want more channels, more HD channels, faster internet speeds etc.

Especially since FIOS has halted expanding into new areas, I believe that Comcast, etc have nothing to worry about for a few years.

R e a p e r
join:2008-12-15
Lynnwood, WA

R e a p e r to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I ... know when the ship is sinking.

I have to say guppy_fish that your post makes A LOT OF SENSE to me. I don't think that Verizon's software track record indicates they could handle the shift in delivery that IPTV would engender.

More Fiber
MVM
join:2005-09-26
Cape Coral, FL

More Fiber to SeattleMatt

MVM

to SeattleMatt
said by SeattleMatt:

said by bobbailey:

TJ did have this exchange yesterday for what it's worth....

sox1918 Jim D
@FiOSTV How's the IPTV coming?

FiOSTV Verizon FiOS TV
@sox1918 chugging probably a trial starting in the near term

Bob-
Interesting find there from Twitter Joe...

And we all know TJ's definition of "near term"/"soon" is not in the foreseeable future.
URFloorMatt
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

URFloorMatt to guppy_fish

Member

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon.Not that anyone really cares, but I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I have seen it all and know when the ship is sinking.

TJ, is a paid propaganda mouth piece for the company plan. He will say whatever BS he is instructed to say or write to put Verizon in a favorable light, that's his job.

Projects get canned and backup plans implemented all the time in industries. IPTV would have be be flawless and coming from a company that can't get minor STB releases out more than once a year and VOD that has perpetual outages and hiccups, IPTV just isn't possible from this company.

What is available, and as time marches forward is a very simple to implement is Mpeg4 which will double the HD channel space. Most content providers already provide this and the ONLY thing stopping Verizon is the now being phased out 6*** STB's.

I believe we will see late this year, this decision forced upon management, with promises of a even better IPTV experience in future ( think Hydrogen economy )

It takes failures of deliverable's to make these changes and Verizon's internal programming has proven one thing in the last 5 years, they haven't had a deadline they couldn't miss by at least a year.

IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4

Hate to say it, but I'd give you at least 50/50 odds of being right here.
dewdude
pfSense on xcp-ng Asterisk geek
join:2010-03-27
Manassas, VA
·voip.ms
(Software) pfSense
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dewdude to jammmin

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to jammmin
Wait...

This just completely change how I view FiOS TV. they claim they're pumping out whatever they're getting from content providers. Last time I had a dish pointed at some birds (and more recently, looked at Lyngsat), most of the major networks are feeding mpeg-4...except Nasa TV which has an MPEG2 stream and I believe Discovery pumps mpeg2 out for HD Theater. showtime for some reason has some MPEG2 HD on Galaxy 18...NBC Universal has some mpeg2 on Gal. 14...but I thought just about everyone except OTA ATSC had gone mpeg4 by now. But Verizon is still mpeg2 only? No wonder they're about out of QAM...but so much for the "we don't touch the stream" deal.

Greg2600
join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ

Greg2600 to jammmin

Member

to jammmin
Verizon's older STB's only accepted MPEG2, and many are still in service, raking in $$$. I personally don't care if its IPTV or MPEG-4, get on with it already.

exile
@covad.net

exile to jammmin

Anon

to jammmin
said by jammmin:

Especially since FIOS has halted expanding into new areas, I believe that Comcast, etc have nothing to worry about for a few years.

I think you're right there. A guy I know who is an engineer with "xfinity" said they were told their ads would stop targetting FioS as they no longer saw it as a serious competitor. From now on they'd be aiming at DirecTV and Dish.
OwlSaver
OwlSaver
Premium Member
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA

OwlSaver to Greg2600

Premium Member

to Greg2600
I thought that MPEG2/MPEG4 was a component of IPTV. Is it an alternative to IPTV?

DocDrew
How can I help?
Premium Member
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
Ubee E31U2V1
Technicolor TC4400
Linksys EA6900

DocDrew

Premium Member

said by OwlSaver:

I thought that MPEG2/MPEG4 was a component of IPTV. Is it an alternative to IPTV?

It is a component of IPTV. Verizon could do MPEG2 or MPEG4 over IPTV. IPTV would use FiOS data bandwidth vs the RF bandwidth used for QAM.

QAM can also carry MPEG2 or MPEG4, but the bandwidth used to carry QAM channels is pretty much gone.

Obviously MPEG4 would take less bandwidth in either distribution scheme, but fewer boxes are compatible with it.

Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
MVM
join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX

Nezmo to guppy_fish

MVM

to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon.Not that anyone really cares, but I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I have seen it all and know when the ship is sinking.

TJ, is a paid propaganda mouth piece for the company plan. He will say whatever BS he is instructed to say or write to put Verizon in a favorable light, that's his job.

Projects get canned and backup plans implemented all the time in industries. IPTV would have be be flawless and coming from a company that can't get minor STB releases out more than once a year and VOD that has perpetual outages and hiccups, IPTV just isn't possible from this company.

What is available, and as time marches forward is a very simple to implement is Mpeg4 which will double the HD channel space. Most content providers already provide this and the ONLY thing stopping Verizon is the now being phased out 6*** STB's.

I believe we will see late this year, this decision forced upon management, with promises of a even better IPTV experience in future ( think Hydrogen economy )

It takes failures of deliverable's to make these changes and Verizon's internal programming has proven one thing in the last 5 years, they haven't had a deadline they couldn't miss by at least a year.

IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4

Word.

R e a p e r
join:2008-12-15
Lynnwood, WA

R e a p e r to dewdude

Member

to dewdude
said by dewdude:

Wait...

This just completely change how I view FiOS TV. they claim they're pumping out whatever they're getting from content providers. Last time I had a dish pointed at some birds (and more recently, looked at Lyngsat), most of the major networks are feeding mpeg-4...except Nasa TV which has an MPEG2 stream and I believe Discovery pumps mpeg2 out for HD Theater. showtime for some reason has some MPEG2 HD on Galaxy 18...NBC Universal has some mpeg2 on Gal. 14...but I thought just about everyone except OTA ATSC had gone mpeg4 by now. But Verizon is still mpeg2 only? No wonder they're about out of QAM...but so much for the "we don't touch the stream" deal.

The way to think of this is that they don't add aditional compression to signals they receive like other providers do (DIRECTV, Dish Network, Comcast, etc). They do convert MPEG-4 signals to MPEG-2 but this doesn't add compression to the signal.

Vamp9190
Premium Member
join:2002-02-11
Chantilly, VA

Vamp9190 to Nezmo

Premium Member

to Nezmo
said by Nezmo:

said by guppy_fish:

IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4

Word.

So where does this leave HD expansion....I guess VZ will not have any more HD for.....years? or they will start compressing and add 3 HDs per QAM?

Zero5
join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA

1 recommendation

Zero5

Member

said by Vamp9190:

So where does this leave HD expansion....I guess VZ will not have any more HD for.....years? or they will start compressing and add 3 HDs per QAM?

They've already tried 3 HDs per QAM and didn't like the results so it's unlikely for them to go back to it again.

Right now new HD adds are few and far between with only a handful of open QAM slots. It's pretty much in limbo after that until IPTV is ready or VZ tries something else.