jammmin join:2000-12-14 Upper Marlboro, MD |
jammmin
Member
2011-Mar-10 12:33 pm
The mystery behind Verizon's IPTV implementationWith all the talk the past few months regarding the upcoming IMG 1.9, there has been "no leaks" from Verizon or otherwise regarding implementation of IPTV.
As we all know, Verizon is currently out of capacity to add new channels and thus, IPTV is the way being considered.
Are they working on it behind the scenes? I am not going to even ask about possible release dates, but there has been absolutely no info coming from Verizon or otherwise regarding its IPTV plans currently.
I remember Twitter Joe mentioning sometime ago that Verizon will not release any info regarding IPTV so as to not give a heads up to the competition(eg. Comcast). He might not be aware that Comcast isn't lying around waiting for Verizon to introduce IPTV. I believe Comcast's Philly area has about 30+ HD channels that Verizon does not offer in addition to Docsis 3.0 100+ megabit speeds and working on finalizing 75 megabit upstream speeds.
With all the improvements in Coax technology, I don't see Comcast or the other cable companies switching to fiber anytime soon as some folks here thought the advent of FIOS would have caused. I don't believe the cable companies are worried as Verizon would like them to even much less now since Verizon has stoppped expanding FIOS beyond their current franchise areas. |
|
|
TJ did have this exchange yesterday for what it's worth....
sox1918 Jim D @FiOSTV How's the IPTV coming?
FiOSTV Verizon FiOS TV @sox1918 chugging probably a trial starting in the near term |
|
JPL Premium Member join:2007-04-04 Downingtown, PA |
JPL to jammmin
Premium Member
2011-Mar-10 12:49 pm
to jammmin
I've hit on this before, but my question is (at least as far as Comcast is concerned): their next move is... what, exactly? What changes will be made by Comcast to get through this next brick wall?
I'm not exactly impressed by what Comcast has done so far. DirecTV started launching more HD channels, so Comcast responded by counting VOD titles as HD channels. Then when that didn't work they responded by... upping compression. I don't care what anyone says, I CAN see the difference. Next, they eliminated analogs. That's great.... it's also a move that Verizon made over 2 years ago. I don't exactly consider that being on the 'cutting edge'.
Now that they've gotten to this point, though, the question, like I said is: what now? What's Comcast's next move? SDV? MPEG-4? Personally I think Comcast is likely to sit on its hands for the intermediate future. While Comcast managed to JUST get to where other competitors got a couple years ago (RCN also eliminated analogs, e.g.), how long do you think it'll be before they move past their current architecture? Other providers have started moving to the next stage.
Next, DOCSIS 3.0 is a great jump forward, but there is a practical limit as to how much they can squeeze out of copper. Finally, the numbers don't lie. Comcast has been bleeding video customers for a couple years now. While they're still the largest video supplier in the country, that will only last so long if they continue to lose customers at a clip of a couple hundred thousand per quarter, like they've been doing.
They're outrageously slow to innovate - look at that HD guide that they're supposed to roll out. They've been talking about it for how long now? How many markets have it? Spending time at my wife's uncle's house the other day I still am amazed at just how horrible their guide is. I compare that to 1.9 and it's not even a fair fight. |
|
your moderator at work
hidden :
|
sashwa Mod join:2001-01-29 Alcatraz |
to JPL
Re: The mystery behind Verizon's IPTV implementationBack to topic please. Thread is about Vz implementation of IPTV not Comcast's implementation. |
|
JPL Premium Member join:2007-04-04 Downingtown, PA
1 recommendation |
JPL to jammmin
Premium Member
2011-Mar-10 12:54 pm
to jammmin
Sorry about that. The tenor of the OP, though, was in measuring how Verizon is responding to the competition brought forward by companies like Comcast. The notion being that fiber isn't the advantage that it was seen as being. I'm just trying to dispute that. I'll get back on topic . |
|
SeattleMattStreaming Tech Director Premium Member join:2001-12-28 Seattle, WA |
to bobbailey
Bob- Interesting find there from Twitter Joe... |
|
jammmin join:2000-12-14 Upper Marlboro, MD |
So when Verizon finally introduces IPTV, is it going to be a game changer in the industry where thousands of people((possibly millions) switching from cable/satellite to FIOS.
Why do I think this will not happen. As long as FIOS continues to put a halt to new FIOS rollout(in terms of obtaining franchises), they will not grow as fast as they would like which benefits cable companies. |
|
|
As long as Verizon is going to continue to position itself as quality over value I don't see that many people switching even when they get Knitting channel in HD. |
|
JPL Premium Member join:2007-04-04 Downingtown, PA |
to jammmin
I think it CAN be a game-changer, but not in terms of bringing over hundreds of thousands of subscribers, although I also think there are a number of customers on the edge - holding off on making a change because of one or two channels. I think, just like when DirecTV raised the bar by adding HD channels, it'll force other providers to respond.
Then again I don't see Verizon's IP solution as being limited to just increasing bandwidth. They appear to be willing to take it much further than that |
|
guppy_fish Premium Member join:2003-12-09 Palm Harbor, FL
2 recommendations |
to jammmin
I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon.Not that anyone really cares, but I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I have seen it all and know when the ship is sinking.
TJ, is a paid propaganda mouth piece for the company plan. He will say whatever BS he is instructed to say or write to put Verizon in a favorable light, that's his job.
Projects get canned and backup plans implemented all the time in industries. IPTV would have be be flawless and coming from a company that can't get minor STB releases out more than once a year and VOD that has perpetual outages and hiccups, IPTV just isn't possible from this company.
What is available, and as time marches forward is a very simple to implement is Mpeg4 which will double the HD channel space. Most content providers already provide this and the ONLY thing stopping Verizon is the now being phased out 6*** STB's.
I believe we will see late this year, this decision forced upon management, with promises of a even better IPTV experience in future ( think Hydrogen economy )
It takes failures of deliverable's to make these changes and Verizon's internal programming has proven one thing in the last 5 years, they haven't had a deadline they couldn't miss by at least a year.
IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4 |
|
SeattleMattStreaming Tech Director Premium Member join:2001-12-28 Seattle, WA |
to JPL
I wouldn't lose any sleep dreaming over IPTV at the current moment... |
|
|
to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon. ... snip ... IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4 I sure hope so. IPTV on FiOS without a viable CableCARD solution means Cablevision or DirecTV gets my business. MPEG4 seems like a much better idea, imo. DirecTV made the switch years ago and it's paid off. I know there are a lot of boxes out there that do not support MPEG2, but that's the cost of doing business - upgrades need to take place. |
|
DocDrewHow can I help? Premium Member join:2009-01-28 SoCal Ubee E31U2V1 Technicolor TC4400 Linksys EA6900
|
DocDrew
Premium Member
2011-Mar-10 3:18 pm
said by Thinkdiff:IPTV on FiOS without a viable CableCARD solution means Cablevision or DirecTV gets my business.
MPEG4 seems like a much better idea, imo. Are there any retail CableCARD devices that support MPEG4? |
|
jammmin join:2000-12-14 Upper Marlboro, MD |
Why has AT & T been able to have IPTV from the start(5 years ago) and Verizon still struggling to implement it?
Is Verizon trying to implement a different type of IPTV system than AT & T Uverse? |
|
Zero5 join:2009-07-01 Collegeville, PA |
Zero5
Member
2011-Mar-10 3:38 pm
Oh yes. AT&T's IPTV has many limitations and complaints about PQ, plus they started from the ground up with IPTV not transitioning from QAM to IP. |
|
|
|
to DocDrew
said by DocDrew:said by Thinkdiff:IPTV on FiOS without a viable CableCARD solution means Cablevision or DirecTV gets my business.
MPEG4 seems like a much better idea, imo. Are there any retail CableCARD devices that support MPEG4? The TiVo HD and TiVo Premier already support playback of MPEG4 (h264), just not on Cable. I'm sure if Verizon switched to MPEG4, it wouldn't be a terribly difficult update for TiVo to implement MPEG4 playback. I think Windows Media Center can also playback MPEG4 (again, just not setup for MPEG4 over cable currently). |
|
jammmin join:2000-12-14 Upper Marlboro, MD |
The "average" consumer(95% or more of the population I think) does not give a hoot about IPTV, Docsis 3.0, MPEG 4 etc. They just want more channels, more HD channels, faster internet speeds etc.
Especially since FIOS has halted expanding into new areas, I believe that Comcast, etc have nothing to worry about for a few years. |
|
|
to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I ... know when the ship is sinking. I have to say guppy_fish that your post makes A LOT OF SENSE to me. I don't think that Verizon's software track record indicates they could handle the shift in delivery that IPTV would engender. |
|
|
to SeattleMatt
said by SeattleMatt:said by bobbailey:TJ did have this exchange yesterday for what it's worth....
sox1918 Jim D @FiOSTV How's the IPTV coming?
FiOSTV Verizon FiOS TV @sox1918 chugging probably a trial starting in the near term Bob- Interesting find there from Twitter Joe... And we all know TJ's definition of "near term"/"soon" is not in the foreseeable future. |
|
|
to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon.Not that anyone really cares, but I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I have seen it all and know when the ship is sinking.
TJ, is a paid propaganda mouth piece for the company plan. He will say whatever BS he is instructed to say or write to put Verizon in a favorable light, that's his job.
Projects get canned and backup plans implemented all the time in industries. IPTV would have be be flawless and coming from a company that can't get minor STB releases out more than once a year and VOD that has perpetual outages and hiccups, IPTV just isn't possible from this company.
What is available, and as time marches forward is a very simple to implement is Mpeg4 which will double the HD channel space. Most content providers already provide this and the ONLY thing stopping Verizon is the now being phased out 6*** STB's.
I believe we will see late this year, this decision forced upon management, with promises of a even better IPTV experience in future ( think Hydrogen economy )
It takes failures of deliverable's to make these changes and Verizon's internal programming has proven one thing in the last 5 years, they haven't had a deadline they couldn't miss by at least a year.
IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4 Hate to say it, but I'd give you at least 50/50 odds of being right here. |
|
dewdudepfSense on xcp-ng Asterisk geek join:2010-03-27 Manassas, VA ·voip.ms (Software) pfSense (Software) DD-WRT
|
to jammmin
Wait...
This just completely change how I view FiOS TV. they claim they're pumping out whatever they're getting from content providers. Last time I had a dish pointed at some birds (and more recently, looked at Lyngsat), most of the major networks are feeding mpeg-4...except Nasa TV which has an MPEG2 stream and I believe Discovery pumps mpeg2 out for HD Theater. showtime for some reason has some MPEG2 HD on Galaxy 18...NBC Universal has some mpeg2 on Gal. 14...but I thought just about everyone except OTA ATSC had gone mpeg4 by now. But Verizon is still mpeg2 only? No wonder they're about out of QAM...but so much for the "we don't touch the stream" deal. |
|
|
to jammmin
Verizon's older STB's only accepted MPEG2, and many are still in service, raking in $$$. I personally don't care if its IPTV or MPEG-4, get on with it already. |
|
|
exile to jammmin
Anon
2011-Mar-11 7:15 am
to jammmin
said by jammmin:Especially since FIOS has halted expanding into new areas, I believe that Comcast, etc have nothing to worry about for a few years. I think you're right there. A guy I know who is an engineer with "xfinity" said they were told their ads would stop targetting FioS as they no longer saw it as a serious competitor. From now on they'd be aiming at DirecTV and Dish. |
|
OwlSaverOwlSaver Premium Member join:2005-01-30 Berwyn, PA |
to Greg2600
I thought that MPEG2/MPEG4 was a component of IPTV. Is it an alternative to IPTV? |
|
DocDrewHow can I help? Premium Member join:2009-01-28 SoCal Ubee E31U2V1 Technicolor TC4400 Linksys EA6900
|
DocDrew
Premium Member
2011-Mar-11 3:12 pm
said by OwlSaver:I thought that MPEG2/MPEG4 was a component of IPTV. Is it an alternative to IPTV? It is a component of IPTV. Verizon could do MPEG2 or MPEG4 over IPTV. IPTV would use FiOS data bandwidth vs the RF bandwidth used for QAM. QAM can also carry MPEG2 or MPEG4, but the bandwidth used to carry QAM channels is pretty much gone. Obviously MPEG4 would take less bandwidth in either distribution scheme, but fewer boxes are compatible with it. |
|
NezmoThe name's Bond. James Bond. MVM join:2004-11-10 Coppell, TX |
to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:I for one think we will never see IPTV on Verizon.Not that anyone really cares, but I have decades of engineering and product management in my background, I have seen it all and know when the ship is sinking.
TJ, is a paid propaganda mouth piece for the company plan. He will say whatever BS he is instructed to say or write to put Verizon in a favorable light, that's his job.
Projects get canned and backup plans implemented all the time in industries. IPTV would have be be flawless and coming from a company that can't get minor STB releases out more than once a year and VOD that has perpetual outages and hiccups, IPTV just isn't possible from this company.
What is available, and as time marches forward is a very simple to implement is Mpeg4 which will double the HD channel space. Most content providers already provide this and the ONLY thing stopping Verizon is the now being phased out 6*** STB's.
I believe we will see late this year, this decision forced upon management, with promises of a even better IPTV experience in future ( think Hydrogen economy )
It takes failures of deliverable's to make these changes and Verizon's internal programming has proven one thing in the last 5 years, they haven't had a deadline they couldn't miss by at least a year.
IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4 Word. |
|
|
to dewdude
said by dewdude:Wait...
This just completely change how I view FiOS TV. they claim they're pumping out whatever they're getting from content providers. Last time I had a dish pointed at some birds (and more recently, looked at Lyngsat), most of the major networks are feeding mpeg-4...except Nasa TV which has an MPEG2 stream and I believe Discovery pumps mpeg2 out for HD Theater. showtime for some reason has some MPEG2 HD on Galaxy 18...NBC Universal has some mpeg2 on Gal. 14...but I thought just about everyone except OTA ATSC had gone mpeg4 by now. But Verizon is still mpeg2 only? No wonder they're about out of QAM...but so much for the "we don't touch the stream" deal. The way to think of this is that they don't add aditional compression to signals they receive like other providers do (DIRECTV, Dish Network, Comcast, etc). They do convert MPEG-4 signals to MPEG-2 but this doesn't add compression to the signal. |
|
Vamp9190 Premium Member join:2002-02-11 Chantilly, VA |
to Nezmo
said by Nezmo:said by guppy_fish:IPTV is dead ... come back next year and we will be Mpeg4 Word. So where does this leave HD expansion....I guess VZ will not have any more HD for.....years? or they will start compressing and add 3 HDs per QAM? |
|
Zero5 join:2009-07-01 Collegeville, PA
1 recommendation |
Zero5
Member
2011-Mar-11 5:01 pm
said by Vamp9190:So where does this leave HD expansion....I guess VZ will not have any more HD for.....years? or they will start compressing and add 3 HDs per QAM? They've already tried 3 HDs per QAM and didn't like the results so it's unlikely for them to go back to it again. Right now new HD adds are few and far between with only a handful of open QAM slots. It's pretty much in limbo after that until IPTV is ready or VZ tries something else. |
|