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Joshua

@verizon.net

Is Verizon implementing traffic shaping?

I'm a FIOS subscriber of ~one or two years, the service was always perfect without any disconnects and excellent speeds. I often host game servers so my friends and I can play random games as well as torrent or host FTP servers for my friends.

Since about February, torrents would often cause a disconnect followed by extremely slow speeds despite the amount of seeds/peers. Normally, I easily obtain 3MBPS/3MBPS, though now I struggle to achieve 500KBPS+ in both directions.

What I've noticed:
1. The router isn't crashing; it's not a overheating or low memory issue.
2. The other hosts on my network remain connected, but disconnect whenever a torrent is started on their computers too.
3. It's not an OS issue, we have an XP box, Win 7, Ubuntu and a mac laptop.
4. It's not a switch issue (I actually saved up my allowance and purchased a switch that's practically overkill as well as my bro's laptop being wireless)
5. The speed issue is only limited to torrents, I usually host servers and browse the internet with the same speed.
6. Often, the open source VPN I use, Wippien, would cause the same problems as above without slowdown (meaning, it still performs perfectly, however it never disconnected before).

After power cycling all of my tech stuff including the router/switch/computers and cable boxes, the problem still persisted. Settings haven't changed in over a year, the log doesn't show anything weird etc.

ultragc2

join:2009-08-30
Rosemead, CA
Something tells me they are.


Joshua

@verizon.net
Hmm, pretty lame considering I've stuck with Verizon for a while - especially since their DSL service wasn't throttled and FIOS was perfect until recently.

Honestly, the people who are early adopters and are willing to buy 35/35 or 25/25 connections are the people like me, who host game servers, torrent, have their connections downloading their Steam games etc. rather than people who spend the majority of their time VoIPing/youtube/facebooking - which, doesn't even take that much bandwidth even with the highest quality settings all turned up to the max. Heck, even my servers use 200KBPS upload and I honestly have *no* idea what could possibly annoy Verizon about an open source VPN which my friends use for older games with bad netcodes or dead masterservers. Meh, how annoying.

finlandia

join:2002-03-17
Fairfax, VA
reply to Joshua
I don't have any problems. I regularly exceed 1.6 with torrents.


Joshua

@verizon.net
reply to Joshua
Is it possible that they're throttling only certain locations?


MagicalPig

join:2008-07-25

1 recommendation

reply to Joshua
I personally have not seen it. Check this site out for tests ...

»broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparen···hp#tests

serge87

join:2009-11-29
reply to Joshua
none here. Try using Wireshark to detect any packet inspection by Verizon: »www.eff.org/wp/detecting-packet-injection


Joshua

@verizon.net
Ooh, I haven't touched Wireshark in a while, but that's a great idea!

I'll try it later in the week due to school and midterms.

Also, a litte development: I've noticed that Verizon's FIOS TOS notes that the service should not be used for hosting servers or business related activities. It's possible that Verizon is enforcing that rule, at least in my area, by disconnecting me whenever I start up the VPN I use (which I use for gaming and file sharing with friends) as well as torrent.

Nothing is conclusive yet, I'll run the test from MagicalPig and check out serge87's suggestion as well as run a personal test with a private tracker and some friends after midterms.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
said by Joshua :

Also, a litte development: I've noticed that Verizon's FIOS TOS notes that the service should not be used for hosting servers or business related activities. It's possible that Verizon is enforcing that rule, at least in my area, by disconnecting me whenever I start up the VPN I use (which I use for gaming and file sharing with friends) as well as torrent.

That's not a development. That language has been in the TOS since the early DSL days. AFAIK, it's never been heavily enforced (if at all).

Are you running a VPN server or connecting to a VPN? VPN is not strictly "business", so I highly doubt they'd be cracking down on that.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Zero

join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA
reply to Joshua
To date, Verizon doesn't do any throttling (traffic shaping) and although their TOS says no servers can be hosted on a residential account, there have been no reports of anyone being disconnected or asked to upgrade to a business account for running servers.

I've even asked Verizon specifically about this about 2 years ago and was told that Verizon doesn't monitor for servers and basically wouldn't care if you run one - which is a plus as home servers have become somewhat popular to media-centric users.

With first-hand experience managing home servers across several different FiOS lines with BitTorrent installed and running on each of them, I have seen no indication of bandwidth throttling while they actively run 24/7. There are some other heavy FiOS users around these forums that should also be able to comment on if they have seen any throttling. I'd imagine your issue is probably something else though like the router.


shmee

join:2005-04-03
Phoenixville, PA

1 recommendation

reply to Joshua
i ran that glasnost test... this is unsettling to me. i have 25/25 just outside of philly. my speed tests just yesterday seemed perfect. i was hitting 30/25 as a matter of fact. same speed tests today are reporting the exact same 30/25, good news! however, this glasnost test is telling me the following:

Is your upload traffic rate limited?

Your ISP appears to rate limit your uploads.
However, some of the measurements were affected by noise, which limits Glasnost ability to detect rate limiting.

Details:
Your ISP appears to rate limit your BitTorrent uploads. In our tests, uploads using control flows achieved up to 12885 Kbps while uploads using BitTorrent achieved up to 19833 Kbps.

Your ISP appears to rate limit uploads on port 40443. In our tests, uploads on port 6881 achieved up to 12885 Kbps while uploads on port 40443 achieved up to 20447 Kbps.

Is your download traffic rate limited?

There is no indication that your ISP rate limits your downloads.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 recommendation

I have a feeling that test isn't well designed for FiOS's upload speeds. There's no reason for Verizon to cap uploads at 12.8Mbps for bittorrent - a seemingly random (and still pretty large) number. I'm guessing the upload test is small file that gets transferred on different ports and if the results are outside of X% of each other, it says they're rate limiting your uploads.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


shmee

join:2005-04-03
Phoenixville, PA
please cross-reference this thread:

»inconsistent speeds as of late. should i reboot?

JohnR5

join:2011-01-06
Newburgh, NY
reply to Joshua
not sure if it helps much but got fios installed two months again..never got good torrent speeds, once in a while a nice burst...but had so many technical issues..they changed it from coaxial from router to ONT, to cat5 from router to ONT, and ever since then it has been superb spot on, not seeing any sort of traffic shaping and I am a power user


shmee

join:2005-04-03
Phoenixville, PA
i am cat5 from ont to router. had it ready to go like that before i was installed. :]

JohnR5

join:2011-01-06
Newburgh, NY
last i did that glossnoss test it said it not limit anything..

i can do a test later when i get home if i rememeber

Xtreme2damax

join:2007-03-21
Port Byron, NY
reply to Joshua
I just got Fios and I have the same problem when it comes to torrents. Sometimes I get full speed, while I'm downloading/uploading it appears that I've been disconnected such as speed will drop way down, go back up and fluctuate a bit.

I've read that there is an issue with the Fios router and P2P apps, the connection limit or something else is set low that it interferes with P2P apps.

hubrisnxs

join:2009-12-30
Fountain Valley, CA
kudos:2
you should add your port forwarding to the firewall.

Before attempting to configure port forwarding on the FiOS router, there is some information that you need to have in hand.

Computer/Device HOST name or IP Address if it is a static IP address
A list of the Port numbers and Protocols needed for the game, service or application

How to enable BASIC Port Forwarding on the MI424WR Verizon FiOS Router
»www.actiontec.com/howto/h2_detai···cat_id=3

How to Configure Advanced Port Forwarding on the MI424WR Verizon FiOS Router
»www.actiontec.com/howto/h2_detai···cat_id=3

or if you aren't very tech savvy, you can just use the auto port forward from PC Wintech
»www.simpleportforwarding.com/

I am pretty sure there's an already preconfigured port forward rule for P2P

Also do you know what revision your router is? (rev a, b, c, d, e, f) should be on the service tag.

Xtreme2damax

join:2007-03-21
Port Byron, NY
reply to Joshua
Ports are already forwarded, and the router revision is "F".

c1590

join:2010-02-28
Verizon throttles torrent traffic during peak time here. Most of the households here have fios internet. Nothing else is throttled though, just torrents. I can FTP at max speed anytime.

Using bittorrent at peak is irresponsible anyways. Running torrents at off-peak I can easily exceed 3tb/mo regularly.


sholling
Premium
join:2002-02-13
Hemet, CA
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Joshua
In my opinion (20 years in IT) yes they are throttling some things while carefully optimizing for speed tests. They only way that I've been able to view videos from youtube and Revision3 is via VPN. Otherwise the videos spend more time buffering than playing. Yes even at 3am. Across a VPN they were perfect even at maximum resolution. That tells me Verizon is throttling protocols associated with those video services. Within 3 days of pointing this out on DSLR my VPN speeds dropped by almost half telling me that they've started throttling VPN protocols at least in my area. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when speed tests are stellar but streaming, VPN, P2P and newsgroup (Giganews connections) speeds suck that traffic shaping is taking place. Video, usenet, and P2P are easy targets.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:17
Without packet captures showing protocol poisoning, you have no proof....

Run some Wiresharks and see if you can detect any shaping with torrents, P2P, etc..


Zero

join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA
said by nycdave:

Without packet captures showing protocol poisoning, you have no proof....

Run some Wiresharks and see if you can detect any shaping with torrents, P2P, etc..

Agreed. I have yet to see any actual proof posted that Verizon is throttling these specific connections and selectively targeting them for throttling. Also, considering nycdave See Profile is a "Verizon Tier II FiOS/DSL Lead Network Specialist" with 20+ years of experience working at Verizon, he would know if Verizon is throttling or not.

c1590

join:2010-02-28
Then why doesn't he say whether or not they're throttling?


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
Because the majority of time people accuse an ISP of shaping traffic with zero proof and then the disappear when asked for some measurable evidence.


birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

1 recommendation

reply to sholling
said by sholling:

Across a VPN they were perfect even at maximum resolution. That tells me Verizon is throttling protocols associated with those video services. Within 3 days of pointing this out on DSLR my VPN speeds dropped by almost half telling me that they've started throttling VPN protocols at least in my area. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when speed tests are stellar but streaming, VPN, P2P and newsgroup (Giganews connections) speeds suck that traffic shaping is taking place. Video, usenet, and P2P are easy targets.

I don't think there's any throttling going on. They just run all that traffic through one router that gets a little congested from time to time.

Route to the endpoint through your VPN did not follow the same path as directly from your PC. Three days later your VPN speeds dropped because the path changed or network conditions changed. With VZ's laissez-faire approach concerning most network activities and high-speed symmetrical connections, it's predictable there would be hot spots where traffic gets bogged down.


houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to c1590
They don't throttle anything at least where I live.. No real difference during peak hours or off-peak hours:

Day:


Month:

--
Two 35/35 FIOS connections bonded to 70/70


Silver_2000
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Carrollton, TX
reply to Joshua
Just curious

What % of torrent use and Usenet use is legal ?


shmee

join:2005-04-03
Phoenixville, PA
100%

mind you, i haven't gone over the fios TOS with a fine-toothed comb, but i'm relatively certain that there is no restriction as to what you do with your bandwidth. there are no caps, for instance. if verizon didn't want us using our fiber to its fullest potential, they could implement some caps.


Silver_2000
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Carrollton, TX
Reviews:
·Windstream
The point I was making wasn't whether it complied with TOS but whether the content was legal. Dloading copyrighted songs, movies, software is the most popular use for both torrents and usenet.

As an aside, I haven't looked at the TOS recently but I bet there is language in there about illegal content or activities....

So if you establish that the majority of content on Torrents and Usenet is copyrighted, (which has been done many times,) then the TOS would likely allow for shaping traffic to discourage that traffic