Regional Talk > Chicago > 2011 Chicago White Sox

reply to hambonepat

Re: 2011 Chicago White Sox

Yeah, except NOBODY in MLB who has anything to lose (in other words, not KC, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and other bad teams) can rebuild the right way, or even admit they are rebuilding. Might cost them 500,000 tickets sold.

Look at what other teams do and don't do. Everyone works this way now. The difference here is that KW doesn't trust the kids, and has made some bad moves (not nearly as bad as Hendry it must be said).

I know people who think Peavy will bounce back next year - he wasn't really even expected back this year. Anyhow, classic rebuilding costs too much money in the attendance and TV ratings department. You just can't do it that way any more.

The one good team that did a classic rebuilding is Tampa, and that's because they were awful and nobody went to their games - they had nothing to lose. Plus they have Joe Madden, a really good manager. But they were able to build from within because they had the time and luxury of being really bad, with very low attendance; they had nowhere to go but up.

Nobody else built has built a team in this way for quite a while.
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Illegitimati non carborundum

reply to S_engineer
No team in the MLB has spent less money on the minor league system than the Sox have in recent years. That is why they are now in this situation. They can not or will not spend their way out this situation, so I see no other choice.

No team? C'mon. Is that a fact or an opinion? I know for a fact the Cubs spend less.

Ther fact is, Buddy Bell is highly respected and has been working to get the thing back to where it should be. Chris Sale is out of the organization and so is Santos. We got Flowers in a trade but that was three years ago and he was pretty much developed by the Sox.

The also Sox got badly clobbered by the conviction of their Dominican guys in that kickback scheme.

You are right, the farm system has not been fruitful, but you are the one always bitching about money - the Sox payroll is higher than it has ever been - and look where they are. Your money arguments don't carry much weight.

The next year or two will be make or break for KW/ But first let's get a manager. Alomar doesn't seem like a bad choice. GOnna be an interesting off-season.
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Illegitimati non carborundum

Fact my friend:
»www.baseballamerica.com/blog/dra···2007-11/

Buddy Bell is respected but when your chairman instructs his staff to draft individuals that dont command money, Buddy cant do much.

Flowers is nothing and never will be, Santos was drafted by the dbacks in 02, kicked around the minors till he came to the Sox system in 09 where he requested to be converted from a SS to a pitcher and the Sox caught lighting in a bottle. (and you accuse me of not having facts, maybe you should stop slinging) Sale is out of the organization, I dont like how they have weened him but hopefully he will be a gem. Nobody else is worth a hill of beans and I hope you realize why.

Your chairman has overspent ONCE in his 30 year tenure and will probably never do it again. If that makes everything good with you, Great but it sure as hell doesnt with me.

Heres the 2011 figures so you dont have the illusion that things are getting better.

»www.baseballamerica.com/blog/dra···es-2011/

Yeah, the fact is that what was spent on bonuses, NOT "spent less money on the minor league system" than any other MLB team.

They signed Viciedo for millions and Alexi too.

What makes you think Flowers is "nothing?" Where did you get that? He'll be with the team next year, possibly starting.

Man! You are one of the sourest Sax fans - and that's saying a lot - I have ever encountered. Since 2000 the Sox have 3 playoff appearances and one WS title. Not great, but better than most teams have done.

And they've been competitive almost every season. 2003, 2007, 2010, they weren't. Even this year they hung around even though they were awful. Rheinsdorf is an asshole, but there are many who are worse - Ozzie will find out when he has to deal with Jeff Loria. Dan Snyder of the Orioles and Redskins. Frank McCourt of the Dodgers. And there are lots of others.

So chill - yeah, I'm not all that pissed off and I perfer to be somewhat optimistic. It's baseball, not nuclear proliferation.
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Illegitimati non carborundum

Bonuses and minor league spending go hand in hand if you understand how the minor league system works.

Flowers? Take a peek at his minor league stats over the last 2 years. The only reason he even got a sniff this year was because of Castro and then AJ going down.

Your eyes are comparing how the Sox have done to who? The cubbies? The Sox are a major market team in a weak division that has no other major market team. They should be dominating this division with the major jump start they got in 05 and what has happened, ONE playoff appearance since. That is pitiful but if it makes you happy and satisfied, God love you, I wish I could feel like you.

That's an opinion. But the fact remains, you found stats on bonuses, not on "what they spent on the minors."

Re. Flowers. I know what his ML stats are - let's look at his MLB stats. He's had over 2 months up here - I bet you he comes back and eventually replaces AJ, who will be gone after 2012.

If you look at the numbers, since 2000 the Sox are consistently in the top echelon of teams for wins, playoff appearances, etc. So I'm comparing them to the rest of MLB. It's been a pretty good decade.
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Illegitimati non carborundum

Flowers MLB stats? Are you kidding me now? They are piss poor.

»www.baseball-reference.com/playe···01.shtml

You should know that a minor league system is only as good as the players in it and the money expended for these players. Bonuses are a direct reflection of this.

I dont know if you are now just yanking my chain or you really are not informed these days.(Your Flowers comment about his MLB stats just blew me away)

I used to enjoy Sox discussions with you because you were informed on the subject. I dont know what happened.