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Rockafella21
join:2010-04-08
New Castle, PA

4 edits

Rockafella21

Member

Problem with speeds at peak hours.

George and Steve,

I am going to use this thread to post information on my problem. Verizon is trying to say I need to downgrade my speed tier to 3mb. I am going to show information that shows other wise. At the same time I am going to try to get all the information I have on the problem in one thread. I will be adding to it over the next few days as needed. Along the way please let me know if there is anything you guys would like to see. Then, once we have all the information gathered in here, it can be passed onto Verizon to fix the problem.

As you guys already know this is a problem that has been going on for about a month now. Before this I went for roughly four months with consistent speeds, and no other issues either. The only time I contacted you guys was during those four months was for billing issues. There where no tech tickets. That time period was 11/2/2010 - 3/18/2011. The 3/18/2011 ticket was for PPPoE - Sync No Surf - PPPoE I couldn't log in to my connection. There was a problem with the authentication server. It was some time later in March the slow download speeds during prime time/peak hours started. Like I said for some reason under tickets on the DSL Extreme site the 3/18/2011 ticket is the last one I can see. I have called in a lot of time since then for this problem. I'm not sure why the tickets aren't showing up. I can't see any tickets at all after 3/18/2011. So, it was more like 4 1/2 to 5 months of perfect performance.

During those 4 1/2 months to 5 months it was working correctly I was provisioned to 7840/864 on g.dmt (ADSL1) w/ fast path. ADSL1 g.dmt works the best for my connection. I have had a few modems that prefer ADSL2 though. With my modem I am able to set my connection to whatever one I want to use so I have tested the different line modes. As long as Verizon has it set to auto on there end I can change it from ADSL, ADSL2, or ADSL2+. If they set it on their end to ADSL, ADSL2, or 2+, I am unable to change it. Anyways, during those good months I had great latency, and very good speeds. I was getting in between 6.80mbps - 6.90mbps with upload speeds of 730kb to 740kb. I was a very happy camper.

Before this 4 1/2 to 5 months of "good time" I was contacted by Verizon, and told I was being moved to a new facility. They said my connection would be down for a day, or two but everything would work great when they where done. That was very true. What Verizon did was isolate me. They put me by myself, or with very little other customers for those months without issues. My guess to why I am having problems now is because of over crowding. I think they ended up moving more, and more people over to this good location where I was place. Either that or they moved me back in with the rest of the cattle.

Since this problem started up about a month ago I have been told my modem was bad numerous times, and that's why I am having the slowdowns. I knew that wasn't it because my modem, and router where already only a few days old at that time. Plus the slow downs where only happening in the evening/night during prime time. Just so I could stop hearing that I would run right up to Staples, and buy another modem. Then, shoot home and hook it up only for the problem to return the fallowing day during prime time. I have went through changing out the modem about 50 times. I even have one through you guys now that was replaced once already. It is safe to say the problem is not the modem. I also know the problem is not the the drop line from the pole to my house, the NID, the CAT5e from the NID to the jack, the jack is brand new, the telephone line from the jack to the modem, the modem, or any of the ethernet cables. It's all brand spanking new. I also know its not my desktop, laptop, or Xbox 360 as they are all brand new to which where purchased within the last month. I figured I would purchase new ones so that way they wouldn't be the next excuse. Verizon has cost me a lot of money. Which none of it fixed the problem because it is on their end.

Then, to boot they refuse to fix the problem. They want to downgrade me to 3mb. Which is the most ridicules thing I have heard yet. The cut off for 7mb is 10k ft. Which I am pretty dang close to that about 10,500 ft. I know I am a little over the limit, but I have seen people with worse lines then me through Verizon on 7mb. Plus its already been proven 7mb works. Being only 500ft over I should not have to downgrade to 3mb. I should be able to get 5mb at the very least.

It has already been proven the 7mb works here. Before switching to you guys I was a Verizon customer on their 3mb tier. I used it for 6 months. I wanted something faster. I had the telephone numbers of a few of the engineers at Verizon as well as the number to a few people at Verizon's executive appeals department. I ran it by them that I wanted to upgrade to something faster, and I wanted to know what my line could do. They all agreed 7mb would work.

I am still living in the same exact house. It hasn't gotten any closer or further from the C/O. I also told them I had Verizon a few years back, and had the 7mb plan. It was just on a different telephone number. Before talking to executive appeals I spoke to billing about it, and they said they needed to run it past an engineer first. Then, they would be able to submit an over ride to get me bumped up to 7mb. They where showing my line was able to hold 7mb, but for some reason when they ran the availability test it was saying up to 3mb. They told me that it happens sometimes like that. Then, they had to get a over ride. I was told they have certain numbers that are preaproved. Since my number was rolled over from Comcrap, it was the culprit. When they ran it will my old telephone number it said it was available. Anyways they provisioned it for 7mb and it worked great. I got a call three days later that while the 7mb was working fine they couldn't get the billing departments computer to bill me for it. I am like can't you manually enter the price, and send me the bill? I was told there was not way to do that. I said you guys are trying to make as much money as possible right? I told them if it was my company I would be getting that figured out ASAP.

It turned out to be a big nightmare. They told me they would be able to do it if i got my telephone number changed over to one of their so called "preapproved numbers" the problem was I got it transferred over from Comcrap. We didn't want to change our telephone number. My son was just learning the number for kindergarten, and it was easy to remember. We didn't want to have to pass out a new number. I thought that was a joke so I started looking for an alternative, and found you guys. When I signed up I used my address only because I wanted a dry loop. I think this was the difference from the Verizon situation. It shows I can get all the way up to 7mb. I contacted you guys, and singed up. After signing up various different people at DSL Extreme have since looked at the account, and all agreed that my speed is not my problem with this account. It is something else. Now onto the problem.

Here are some speed tests during off peak hours to prove consistent speeds, and the line is fine on the speed it is at. All tests show download is between 6.50 and 6.75. I am also syncing at full speed 7616/864. Verizon did have me provisioned higher before due to my distance to get me closer to 7mb. I believe i was provisioned to 7840/864 during my 4 1/2 to 5 months of "good time". I was getting consistent speeds of 6.80 - 6.90 at that time. I will continue to add more speed tests to prove that for 20 to 22 hours everything is fine. Then, during prime time the speeds fall. I will be adding speed tests from that time period as soon as it happens again tonight.

Philidephia Server
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 2786.png 2:07Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 3580.png 2:09Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 8843.png 2:14AM April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 3673.png 8:48AM April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 1359.png 9:34Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 2740.png 9:35Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 6978.png 10:46Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 9968.png 11:27Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 0150.png 12:31Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 0288.png 1:32Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 1073.png 139Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 0290.png 3:03Pm April 12
State College
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 5412.png 2:11Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 2195.png 2:13Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 1420.png 8:48Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 4592.png 9:36Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 9128.png 10:47Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 8197.png 11:26Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 7030.png 12:29Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 3846.png 1:30Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 5996.png 3:00Pm April 12
New York, New York Server
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 0222.png 2:16AM April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 1295.png 2:17Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 5139.png 8:50Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 9841.png 9:30Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 0894.png 10:49Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 6376.png 11:25Am April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 2131.png 12:33Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 7821.png 1:30Pm April 12
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 7899.png 3:01Pm April 12

The speed being downgraded isn't going to solve anything at all. Just a few weeks ago Verizon lowered me to 5mb/384kb without my permission. I think they did it to see if I would even notice. I still had the slow speeds in the evening/night during prime time. The other 20 to 22 hours of the day I got great speeds. The fallowing day I called in, and said to get a hold of Verizon to have them put me back on 7mb. As it was still happening. It didn't solve a thing. I think once they snuck it down to 3mb as well. No improvement either. After it was proven not to fix the problem I would have them put me back on the 7mb. I didn't want them to end up leaving me on a lower tier when it's not the issue.

There is numerous other people having the same issue as me. Verizon has told people it is due to so called "sticky tubes". Once they are moved to "unsticky tubes" the problem is resolved. Please refer to the fallowing two threads.

Here's a thread where a guy was having the same problem as I am having. It was a sticky tube thing. I posted my information there, and he said my situation is just like his was. It also says what fixed it.
»Why isn't the upload affected by the prime time slow down?

Here is a slow speed during prime time check in for VZ customers.
»[speed/latency] Users With Slow Download Speed - Report In

Look at all the thread about people having slow speeds during prime time, or on 7mb and getting .8mbps etc.
»Verizon DSL

I also have a thread in the VZ direct support forum. This was their response.

Rockafella21,

I do understand, and sympathize with your completely valid ongoing frustration and agree with your assessment of congestion to be the issue as it is time sensitive. Hoping positvely for a resolution.
--
/ Verizon Direct

I just got another message from Verizon Direct support. They said they they agree with my assessment on everything including the 7mb. They have told me to tell you guys at DSL Extreme one more thing. Here it is from them.

Rockafella21,

I agree with your assessment and it's best to ask your ISP to request a dispatch to remove any other bridge taps and/or perhaps changing the twisted-pair that is used would also be the next step in cleaning the line of potential noise sources.
/Verizon Direct

This could only help the situation. Who knows how many are even on there, but they should be removed. They could be acting as antennas making me seam further away than I really am etc. Plus it can only make things better. I plan on having a long stay here at DSL Extreme so there's no need for them to have any other people attached to the line.

Also, as I have already mentioned to you my ping to hop two the default gateway/1st Verizon hop during off peak hours was continuously pinged over 100 times. The max latency was 30ms, Minimum was 25ms, and Average was 25ms. During prime time/peak hours it starts going crazy high. I sent you the one of it getting as high as 160ms. That is ridiculously high when interleaved normally produces a ping of 25ms to the default gateway. I will be adding more on this when it happens again tonight. Here are is the latency to the default gateway (1st Verizon hop) during peak hours.

Ping statistics for 10.6.8.1:
Packets: Sent = 73, Received = 73, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 25ms, Maximum = 84ms, Average = 38ms

Ping statistics for 10.6.8.1:
Packets: Sent = 134, Received = 131, Lost = 3 (2% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 25ms, Maximum = 167ms, Average = 43ms

Here is the ping to the default gateway (first Verizon hop) during off peak hours. Remember I am interleaved so normal is 25ms.

Ping statistics for 10.6.8.1:
Packets: Sent = 92, Received = 92, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 25ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 25ms

I will be adding more information through out the day. Then you guys can figure out how to present it to Verizon to get it resolved for good.

Thanks,
Rocky
Rockafella21

4 edits

Rockafella21

Member

Click for full size
Or do them like this?
Click for full size
Off Peak 2pm speed test.
George/Steve,

Should I take screenshots of me pinging the default gateway, or do you think Verizon will take our word by just copy and pasting the summery line? Here is the ping to the default gateway for 1:43Pm April 12 during non peak time. Once again this is a interleaved connection so this shows a normal result during non peak hours.

Ping statistics for 10.6.8.1:
Packets: Sent = 59, Received = 59, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 27ms, Average = 24ms

This defiantly has to be the sticky tube situation as Verizon refers to it. My problem is the same thing these guys are experienced. They where able to get their problem resolved. »Why isn't the upload affected by the prime time slow down?
slow_boat
join:2011-03-31

slow_boat to Rockafella21

Member

to Rockafella21
WOW how have you not given up already? How much of your time have you spent trying to DSLX to fix your connection...

Rockafella21
join:2010-04-08
New Castle, PA

Rockafella21

Member

I been working on this for about 3 or 4 weeks now. Like I said before this I was running fine on 7mb fast path for almost 5 months straight. I was getting great speeds, and was very happy with my service during that time. Now the last 3 weeks I been getting slow speeds between 6pm to 10pm as low as 700kb download instead of my regular speeds of 6.7mbps. During those 5 months it worked correctly I was getting almost the full 7mb. I was topping out at 6.90mbps. It isn't really DSL Extreme's fault. It is getting Verizon to carry out the work that DSL Extreme tells them to. However, I agree that DSL Extreme should be a little better at persuading Verizon to get it fixed when the customer has put it all out for them as I have done for the last 3 to 4 weeks.

I wish George would reply. I would really like to know if there is any chance of getting this resolved now that I have proved the problem is on Verizon's end, and it is not that I need to be downgraded to 3mb. George can you maybe tell me if I am wasting my time here, or is something actually going to get done about this???
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

After showing all my speed tests to the Verizon direct support people. I was told the fallowing should be done too.

Rockafella21,

Suggest/request them to test/check router capacity.
--
/ Verizon Direct

dslx_gm
ISP Employee
join:2002-12-26
Chatsworth, CA

dslx_gm

ISP Employee

Hi Rocky,

I am having Ryan work on this ticket for you as he has a number of contacts within the Verizon network team that will be able to look into this for you. The initial feedback I am getting is that the line is at 100% cap and the fluctuation is speed is due to the distance. It appears you are a little over 12K feet from the central office. Ryan is going to give you a call to discuss in more detail but we may want to try lowering the speed to the 5 Meg package to see if that will stabilize the line.

They checked the router and it showed less than 30% utilization so I don't think that is the issue based on what Verizon is stating.

Thanks

Rockafella21
join:2010-04-08
New Castle, PA

Rockafella21

Member

Click for full size
PEAK SLOW 1 5PM
GEORGE,

IT IS NOW ALMOST 5PM PRIME TIME, AND THE SPEEDS ARE SLOWWWWWWWING DOWN. I AM SURE THEY ARE ONLY GOING TO GET SLOWER LIKE THEY DO EVERYDAY UNTIL ABOUT 9PM OR 10PM. IT STARTED A HOUR EARLIER TODAY.HERE ARE THE RESULTS. I WILL ALSO PROVIDE A SCREENSHOT FOR VISUAL PROOF.

Slow Speeds
State College
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 9186.png

Philidelphia
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 1112.png

New York
»www.speedtest.net/result ··· 2770.png

I WILL CONTINUE TO EDIT THIS POST WILL ALL TEST RESULTS, AND SPEED TESTS UNTIL THE SPEEDS PICK BACK UP. I WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS RESOLVED ASAP!

THANKS,
ROCKY

dslx_gm
ISP Employee
join:2002-12-26
Chatsworth, CA

dslx_gm

ISP Employee

Hi Rocky,

Ryan, dslx_tech1 See Profile and further working your account.

Thanks

Rockafella21
join:2010-04-08
New Castle, PA

Rockafella21

Member

TELL HIM TO CALL BACK MY PHONE WENT DEAD FROM BEING ON THE PHONE WITH YOU GUYS ALL DAY. PLUS HE IS CRAZY YOU DON"T GET SPEEDS LIKE I BEEN GETTING FOR 5 MONTHS STRAIGHT AND GET FED THE CRAP HE IS TALKING ABOUT.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

Ummm I am pretty upset now. DSL Extreme has been telling me that Verizon is recommending that I download my speed tier. You guys are the ones that are in charge of that! You guys want me to down grade. Plus from reading around here I read you guys are trying to lease more lines. This is the reason for the slow speeds during peak hours. Also, explains why when I asked for the number to speak to Verizon directly you guys gave it to me. Then, when I called they didn't have a clue who DSL Extreme was, and all they could see was my telephone line. You guys are sneaky sneaky sneaky. Now you guys have been revealed. Verizon is not telling you guys what to do with your customers. This makes me really upset how bad you guys lied to me.

»Why isn't the upload affected by the prime time slow down?

Read the last post.

dslx_gm
ISP Employee
join:2002-12-26
Chatsworth, CA

dslx_gm

ISP Employee

Rocky,

You are getting some in accurate information. Verizon controls the DSLAM and what speed / sync rate the line can obtain. Your line is at 100% capacity which is why Verizon recommends downgrading.

Ryan is working with Verizon on a circuit change again to see if that will resolve your issue as well.

Thanks

Rockafella21
join:2010-04-08
New Castle, PA

Rockafella21

Member

Well I didn't get up to 100% capacity until this problem just started. Before that the capacity was perfect, and I have emails to prove it. I printed them out. They can get that corrected as well then. At this point I don't trust either one of you guys. Verizon or DSL Extreme. Also I been suffering from this problem for 43 days if it gets resolved today. I paid for 2 months March 10 for the months of March and April. You can make sure that money rolls over to after the credit is up.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
said by dslx_gm:

It appears you are a little over 12K feet from the central office.

That is a lie as well. I have documentation that my loop is 10,500 ft as well. From you guys, and Verizon. 42 attenuation x 250 gives you the max possible distance. Which is 10,500. Cut off for 7mb is 10k unless you have the margin for it. My max attainable bit rate according to you guys modem is over 10,000kb down. So has every one of the 100 modems I was told that where bad all this time. Better get them bridge taps off then. To improve the line a little, or get that extra loop length off that was just very recently added.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

I'm going to go get some well needed sleep since I was up all night doing you guys job.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
Also if I was 12,500 ft. You guys would over never leased me a 7mb line because there is no way in H*LL that would of worked. Just recently after 5 months you guys started recommending to downgrade my speeds. So don't even go there. You barking up the wrong tree. Just get it back working the right way.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
Click for full size
Slow during Peak 7:42Pm
The problem is that there ain't enough bandwidth to support all the customers. I mean it don't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. You don't sync at at full 7616/864 on a 7mb interleaved package if your 12k5 from the C/O. Further more there's no chance in H*LL a customer could sync at the full bit rate for a 7mb fast path connection which is 7840/864. Plus get full speeds for 5 months straight? Not possible.... Then, still be able to pull great speeds all day except for 2 to 4 hours during prime time? Not possible.... If it looks like a lie, and it smells like a lie. God dangit its a bold face LIE! lol Here you can once again see it's prime time, and the connection is still slow. I'm glad my momma raised me right, and taught me after getting screwed once to document EVERYTHING.
Rockafella21

1 edit

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
Also, if you guys read the notes on my account very carefully you would know Verizon sent a line splicer out to my house. I was here when the splicer was up on the telephone pole at my house. After he was done on the pole I had a long conversation with him while he checked the NID. There where also a few other people that witnessed what the line splicer said. He said I just removed around 600ft of useless line from your loop. This puts you at a little under 10,500ft. He then said I am going to hook my meter up to the NID, and see if they can get the 7mb on. He said if they can't you can either defiantly get 5mb, or I will go remove some bridge taps that will take off some additional length, and get you stable. It checked out at 7mb.

Like VZ direct support said. They recommend you guys putting in a ticket to get the bridge taps removed to. As those bridge taps only make things worse. They act as big antennas adding noise to the line. Like they said "It can only make things better not worse." That would be where I would start. I would also stop with the BS, and just get it working too.
Rockafella21

1 edit

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
said by dslx_gm:

Hi Rocky,

I am having Ryan work on this ticket for you as he has a number of contacts within the Verizon network team that will be able to look into this for you. The initial feedback I am getting is that the line is at 100% cap and the fluctuation is speed is due to the distance. It appears you are a little over 12K feet from the central office. Ryan is going to give you a call to discuss in more detail but we may want to try lowering the speed to the 5 Meg package to see if that will stabilize the line.

They checked the router and it showed less than 30% utilization so I don't think that is the issue based on what Verizon is stating.

Thanks

attenuation is 41db down.
Formulas for finding loop length.
41 x 250 = 10,250 ft.
Attenuation of 24 gauge wire is 13bd x km. 10,500ft = about 3.2km so 13x3.2 = 10250 ft. total loop length.

My bit rate is 7616kb/864kb on ADSL. My modem says my max attainable bit rate is a little over 11,000kb on DSL.
On ADSL2+ my bit rate is 7640kb/864kb. My modem says my max attainable bit rate is a little over 13,000kb

Formula for relative capacity
»Verizon Online DSL FAQ »Modem Line Statistic Numbers.
Connection bit rate divided by max attainable bit rate.
7616kb divided by 11,000kb = 69% on ADSL
7640kb divided by 13,000kb = 58% on ADSL2+

Also even if you guys are trying to say now that my relative capacity magically went up to 100% it doesn't matter. You can still get your max speed. Relative capacity is used to determine connection stability. If you not disconnecting its not a problem. Here's the proof on that situation. The fallowing reference is from DSLreports.com.

»Verizon DSL FAQ »Modem Line Statistic Numbers.
Relative Capacity (AKA Line Capacity)
Percentage of your overall available bandwidth used to obtain your service ATM rate. For example; if your max line synch rate was 5888Kbps and you were provisioned on a 1472Kbps service you would be using 25% capacity. 1472/5888=25% capacity. The lower the relative capacity the better, but you can still get maximum speeds (although a less stable connection) even with a very high relative capacity. In other words you could be synching at 1472Kbps with 98% relative capacity and achieve maximum speeds, but you may experience more disconnects.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
Click for full size
Gateway before the change.
Click for full size
Gateway after the change.
Well, George I waited the 24 hours I was told by Ryan I would have to wait for the circuit change, and router change. I was able to connect again around noon eastern time. The only problem is none of the work has been done. My internet was turned off for 24 hrs. then turned back on to see if I would go YIPPYYYY!!! ITS WORKINGGGGG!!!!! lmfao. Well, it's NOT working, and this is UNACCEPTABLE! You told me yourself that changing the circuit would result in a new (first hop to ISP) default gateway IP. The router has not been changed either as I am still going through the same congested hops during peak/prime time. You look at the before and after screenshots, and see if the default gateway IP changed, or any of the hops after it.

Tracert from before the alleged circuit and router change.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 53 ms 29 ms 37 ms 10.6.8.1
3 54 ms 44 ms 49 ms at-1-2-0-1715.PITT2-CORE-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.13]
4 47 ms 32 ms 40 ms so-7-0-0-0.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.18.254]
5 112 ms 40 ms 64 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
6 44 ms 71 ms 34 ms 0.so-6-1-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.36.233]
7 39 ms 36 ms 44 ms TenGigE0-4-0-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.32.233
]
8 48 ms 43 ms 50 ms teliasonera-test-gw.customer.alter.net [63.65.76
.190]
9 225 ms 605 ms 46 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [213.155.130.76]
10 3121 ms 1256 ms 44 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.245.80]
11 2501 ms 1277 ms 53 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
12 44 ms 41 ms 42 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
13 44 ms 43 ms 43 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
14 51 ms 41 ms 46 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
15 53 ms 52 ms 43 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
I had to break it into two posts as their was to much info.

Tracert after the alleged circuit and router change.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms 10.6.8.1
3 26 ms 26 ms 26 ms at-1-2-0-1715.PITT2-CORE-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.13]
4 26 ms 26 ms 26 ms so-7-0-0-0.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.18.254]
5 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
6 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms 0.xe-7-0-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.34.201]
7 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms 0.TenGigE0-4-4-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.33.4
1]
8 79 ms 31 ms 33 ms teliasonera-test-gw.customer.alter.net [63.65.76
.190]
9 40 ms 40 ms 41 ms nyk-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.248.201]
10 46 ms 40 ms 42 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.247.21]
11 40 ms 50 ms 49 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
12 42 ms 42 ms 41 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.ewr.nac.net [209.123.10.129]
13 41 ms 41 ms 41 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.122]
14 41 ms 40 ms 42 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
15 40 ms 42 ms 41 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.

As you can see everything is still the same. Can we stop with all the lying, and get it fixed finally?
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
George,

Why does it say that you are unable to receive instant messages here on dslreports?
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
George,

I have found out why it was that my relative capacity was so high. The max speed of regular ADSL or g.dmt is 8mb. Therefore, if I am provisioned to 7640kb. If you take 7640 and device by 8000 that give your a relative capacity of 95% down. On ADSL2 you have a max speed of 12mb. If you take 7640 and device it by 12000 you get 63%. The relative capacity should be lower on ADSL2+. This is something DSL Extreme or Verizon should of know. Being on 7mb I should of been on ADSL2 or 2+ the whole time. As the relative capacity would of been to high on regular ADSL or g.dmt. You guys told me my relative capacity was to high that is why Verizon recommended downgrading my speeds. Now that I have corrected that problem by switching my connection over to ADSL2 my relative capacity should now be at the very most 70%. Therefore, there is no reason for Verizon to tell me to downgrade after you guys explain this to them, and show them.

Now onto the other business. Since the above was the problem with the relative capacity, and you guys said you couldn't get Verizon to do any work because the capacity was to high. There should be no problem now with any of that. Now that we proved there is no relative capacity problem. Also, on ADSL2 my attenuation has dropped back down to what it use to be when I first signed up. So, there is nothing Verizon can say now. Now we need to explain all this to them, and get them to do the work that needs to be done. That way the slow speeds, and high latency at the default gateway can get resolved. Have you called the numbers Tim_k has provided? Please let me know where we are with all this.

Thank you,
Rocky
Rockafella21

Rockafella21 to dslx_gm

Member

to dslx_gm
My line is beautiful now let's get that ticket in to get the circuit, and everything changed. It don't get any better than this these line stats I have now. They are better than when I first signed up.

Mode: ADSL2
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 11.6 15.9
Attenuation (dB): 42.5 21.0
Output Power (dBm): 15.6 12.4
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 10584 1127
Rate (Kbps): 7645 863

Rocky
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

Steve,

Here you can see there is defiantly a problem at the default gateway. Let me remind you that I am on fast path and the latency to hop two should be around 10ms or so.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 41 ms 97 ms 37 ms 10.6.8.1
3 13 ms 14 ms 13 ms at-1-2-0-1714.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.9]
4 17 ms 20 ms 19 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
5 20 ms 17 ms 21 ms 0.so-2-3-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.30.17]
6 34 ms 696 ms 26 ms TenGigE0-4-1-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.246
]
7 24 ms 26 ms 30 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42
]
8 61 ms 49 ms 46 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.111]
9 28 ms 24 ms 23 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.248.174]
10 47 ms 48 ms 44 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
11 56 ms 68 ms 78 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
12 28 ms 29 ms 31 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
13 69 ms 71 ms 61 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
14 35 ms 34 ms 36 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 58 ms 58 ms 49 ms 10.6.8.1
3 37 ms 38 ms 34 ms at-1-2-0-1714.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.9]
4 41 ms 40 ms 41 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
5 34 ms 34 ms 31 ms 0.so-4-1-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.30.2]
6 55 ms 50 ms 49 ms TenGigE0-6-4-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.35.145
]
7 58 ms 49 ms 3083 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42
]
8 68 ms 59 ms 55 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.111]
9 71 ms 74 ms 73 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.248.174]
10 61 ms 53 ms 54 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
11 34 ms 33 ms 34 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
12 26 ms 29 ms 34 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
13 44 ms 27 ms 28 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
14 51 ms 1696 ms 60 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.

These are from 7:35 Eastern Time. As you can see there is a problem that needs to be dealt with here. I will be posting some more. Usually it is worse then this. I will post some that are worse.

Rocky
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

Here's some more from earlier. It hasn't started really acting up today yet. I would think there probably isn't as many people on today. If you look at some of the ones I posted before on page 1 you can see exactly what's going on. I will ad some more tomorrow to. I can guarantee it will be worse tomorrow.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 223 ms 10 ms 9 ms 10.6.8.1
3 13 ms 15 ms 14 ms at-1-2-0-1714.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.9]
4 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
5 20 ms 51 ms 16 ms 0.xe-7-0-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.34.201]
6 18 ms 20 ms 18 ms 0.TenGigE0-4-4-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.33.4
1]
7 20 ms 837 ms 32 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42
]
8 26 ms 23 ms 25 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.111]
9 26 ms 27 ms 27 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.248.174]
10 26 ms 27 ms 24 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
11 27 ms 24 ms 26 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
12 28 ms 24 ms 23 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
13 29 ms 28 ms 26 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
14 29 ms 1507 ms 26 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 11 ms 10 ms 14 ms 10.6.8.1
3 13 ms 309 ms 10 ms at-1-2-0-1714.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [
30.81.13.9]
4 19 ms 21 ms 18 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130
81.20.92]
5 17 ms 19 ms 92 ms 0.so-6-3-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.32.133]
6 20 ms 17 ms 19 ms TenGigE0-6-4-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.35.14
]
7 16 ms 19 ms 20 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.4
]
8 24 ms 34 ms 25 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.111]
9 25 ms 24 ms 24 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.248.174]
10 424 ms 24 ms 24 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.24
.99.90]
11 27 ms 26 ms 27 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
12 27 ms 23 ms 24 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
13 25 ms 25 ms 28 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
14 28 ms 30 ms 29 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

Here's some bad ones at 10:15 EST Easter Sunday.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 3354 ms 20 ms 10.6.8.1
3 14 ms 14 ms 15 ms at-1-2-0-1714.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.9]
4 18 ms 21 ms 17 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
5 16 ms 21 ms 20 ms 0.so-4-1-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.30.2]
6 29 ms 44 ms 33 ms TenGigE0-6-1-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.35.137
]
7 17 ms 20 ms 21 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42
]
8 56 ms 46 ms 45 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.111]
9 26 ms 2595 ms 51 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.248.174]
10 29 ms 38 ms 26 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
11 28 ms 31 ms 27 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
12 25 ms 23 ms 26 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
13 27 ms 28 ms 28 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
14 30 ms 34 ms 39 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tracing route to dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 3327 ms 10 ms 14 ms 10.6.8.1
3 14 ms 15 ms 13 ms at-1-2-0-1714.PITT2-CORE-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [1
30.81.13.9]
4 17 ms 18 ms 20 ms as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
5 21 ms 18 ms 20 ms 0.so-2-3-0.XL3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.30.17]
6 18 ms 21 ms 17 ms TenGigE0-6-0-0.GW1.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.36.45]

7 18 ms 19 ms 20 ms teliasonera-gw.customer.alter.net [63.125.125.42
]
8 24 ms 25 ms 23 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.111]
9 26 ms 2391 ms 62 ms nyk-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.248.174]
10 28 ms 26 ms 30 ms netaccess-tic-133837-nyk-b3.c.telia.net [213.248
.99.90]
11 25 ms 30 ms 37 ms 0.e1-4.tbr1.mmu.nac.net [209.123.10.101]
12 42 ms 362 ms 40 ms 0.e1-1.tbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.17]
13 36 ms 44 ms 47 ms vlan804.esd1.oct.nac.net [209.123.10.2]
14 28 ms 31 ms 28 ms www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]

Trace complete.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

Okay, enough is enough already. I want a call put into Verizon today so this circuit and port can get changed. Also, during the call it needs to mentioned that they need to take me off the equipment I am on and get me over to the equipment that is suppose to be used for 7mb - 15mb connections. Because the equipment I am on now is only suppose to be used for connections up to 3mb. Customer on higher speed tiers are only suppose to be temporarily placed on the equipment that is used for 3mb or less until Verizon has tested, and setup a port on the equipment for 7mb -15mb connections. Also, a call needs to be put in to get the bridge taps removed. This has been going on way to long. Everything has been ironed out. There are no more kinks. The call just needs to be made. Also, they need to get on this today. As far as the bridge taps go they should be able to get out here sometime this week to do that as well.
Rockafella21

Rockafella21

Member

I was finally able to get moved to a different DSLAM. This happened yesterday. The speeds so far are more consistent. I didn't notice any slow speeds yesterday during peak hours. I am going to continue to monitor this though to make sure.

I am having a problem with the latency spiking consistently on the fallowing hop.
as2-0.LCC1-RES-BB-RTR1-RE1.verizon-gni.net [130.
81.20.92]
This is a hop that no matter where I run a traceroute to it is in there. It also is always high here. The agreement was that the DSLAM, edge router, and bridge taps where to be changed and removed. Some how all I ended up with was a DSLAM change. Doesn't make any sense. The only thing that is going to correct the rest of this problem is for the edge router to be changed. This was already told to you guys. Also, those bridge taps got to be taken off.

I would assume it is the latency spiking on the above mentioned hop that is now making my web pages take forever to load. Due to the fact information is being passed along slowly there. I was also told since I was on fast path to being with I would stay on fast path. However, that didn't happen. You can't just fix one thing, and leave everything else messed up. Other wise what's the point of doing any work to it at all? Doesn't make any sense.

dslx_gm
ISP Employee
join:2002-12-26
Chatsworth, CA

dslx_gm

ISP Employee

Hi Rocky,

As you indicated in your last post we were able to get the backend circuit that your connection connects to moved over to a different circuit. As Verizon had changed the circuit multiple times in the past it was difficult to get them to change it one more time but we were finally able to get that pushed through and changed this final time. I am glad to hear that your speeds results are more stable now.

Unfortunately we can't guarantee latency on every hop in the upstream connection. Quite honestly I don't think that any provider could.

As you are not losing sync on the line and your line readings look good there doesn't appear to be a physical issue on the line itself at this point. Verizon didn't indicate any issues with bridge taps or need to make any changes to the physical line itself. They will not condition a line that doesn't need to be conditioned. Honestly I wouldn't want them to make any changes to the line itself for fear of it spurring a change in the pair or an issue on the line itself.

Thanks

Rockafella21
join:2010-04-08
New Castle, PA

Rockafella21

Member

When the congestion is in the central office it can be fixed. It is occuring on their hop. Therefore, it can be fixed. It's as simple as changing the edge router. They are changed all the time.

Secondly, things shouldn't be promised if they can't be delivered. It seams kind of weird how before they made the DSLAM change I was able to get full sync regardless of the modulation mode. Now for some reason I am only able to get full synce on G.DMT. ADSL2 and 2+ also show no power coming through the line. The line conditioning was recommended by Verizon. That was forwarded to you. Therefore, it is not a problem with getting Verizon to do the work it is a problem with you guys submitting the tickets to get the work done.

Finally, I was promised that I would remain on fast path after the work was done. Even though there is room to put it back on fast path I am now being denied. Doesn't make any sense. It's sad when a company won't even apologize for giving a customer the run around.

Also, just to clarify things. I never said my speeds where more stable. I said they seamed more consistent yesterday. That is only one day. I will continue to document and see how things go.