Topic 'That's what voting GOP gets you' in forum '' - dslreports.com

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 14:49:34 EDT

KCrimson posted :

said by Tobester:

Co-operative is your word :)

Actually, it was you that brought up rural cooperatives, I just pointed to the principles of the idea. ;)

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 13:54:25 EDT

Tobester posted :

said by KCrimson:

You're describing cooperatives, so I'm sure that membership will be voluntary, and not amount to a general tax. This shouldn't be a problem in towns that have REAL problems, and not just a few enthusiasts that want to share the public's wealth for their own surfing.

Co-operative is your word :)

Think of Sacramento Municipal Utility District, Palo Alto Municipal Electric Co, City of Mesa, AZ Utilities, Navopache Electric (AZ). All are municipally owned and operated for the benefit of the community and offer cheaper electric rates than surrounding utility. (I'm sure there are other examples of telephone, and water districts I can't recall at the moment too ;) )

I think your main problem is you don't want to pay for anything you do not personally think you benefit from regardless of whether the public has voted for it, or not.

Here in San Francisco, we have twice voted NOT to start the process of forming our own Electric Utility, and it was pushed hard by our elected City Officials.

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 13:35:16 EDT

KCrimson posted : You're describing cooperatives, so I'm sure that membership will be voluntary, and not amount to a general tax. This shouldn't be a problem in towns that have REAL problems, and not just a few enthusiasts that want to share the public's wealth for their own surfing.

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 11:21:37 EDT

Tobester posted :

said by KCrimson :

What you fail to see is that if there were a profit to be made, private corporations would have been competing to provide this service that the community seems to want so badly..................

Call it "cherry picking", or whatever, the fact remains that smaller communities that band together like this are stepping into an arena that the government was never intended in a market economy............

Sure they are.

Smaller communities have been doing this exact thing for years, such rural electric cooperatives, water districts and they like.

I understand your feeling government should not be involved in a market economy. However, how long would you have smaller communities wait in order to receive upgraded internet services?

The current "mega-internet" companies might not ever see enough return on investment to want to upgrade rural areas, hence my "cherry picking" comment.

The proposed North Carolina bill will specifically exclude these under-served communities from taking matters into their own hands to increase community internet options.

By a majority community vote, the electorate should be free to make their own decisions, agreeing to tax themselves for the greater good of the local community.

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 09:05:07 EDT

KCrimson posted :

said by elray:

said by KCrimson:

I think the courts should allow the community to waste their money as they please. If the current market hasn't seen a fiber startup until now, I'm sure it will either fail horribly (burdening the entire foolish community for generations), or they will change the playing field for such businesses retroactively. Either way, let the buyer beware (and watch the productive and sensible flee).

The locals in the community ARE free to waste their money, they just aren't allowed to waste the taxpayer's money.

A referendum concerning such a capital expenditure by the locals would solve that differentiation. If (as I'm suspecting will occur) the locals approve such a project, there's little the opposition can do. It becomes a public works project like a toll road, a bridge or a dam. It wasn't long ago that there were private toll roads. I'm NOT endorsing this, but I'm not sure there's much that can stop an "inspired" populace from wasting the taxpayer's money.

IMO, the mistake the opposition has made to date is having the existing broadband provider taking on the legal challenge. It should have been coordinated with a local grassroots opposition group instead (similar to the NHL Coyotes bond issue opposition, where the league is foisting a bond issue on the public, and concerned opponents are preventing the issuance by devaluing the bonds).

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 08:52:05 EDT

KCrimson posted :

said by Tobester:

said by KCrimson:

I think the courts should allow the community to waste their money as they please. If the current market hasn't seen a fiber startup until now, I'm sure it will either fail horribly............

We are in complete agreement.

For small rural areas without adequate internet services, who would like to install availability or capacity, it should be up to the community, not Corporate lobbyists.

We both know that Internet providers are "cherry-picking" the easiest installations.

By banding together smaller communities who might not ever see internet connections can advance, with the risks involved too.

What you fail to see is that if there were a profit to be made, private corporations would have been competing to provide this service that the community seems to want so badly. Even if profits would take years, we've seen build-outs where initial capital expenditures are projected into many years (see Vz FiOS). Call it "cherry picking", or whatever, the fact remains that smaller communities that band together like this are stepping into an arena that the government was never intended in a market economy, and such experiments rarely if ever see their intended results without extreme cost or redistribution of resources or population.

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Wed, 04 May 2011 08:10:09 EDT

CylonRed posted :

quote:
Less government intervention in business DOES means less government intervention in personal matters.

The republicans were the group that wanted to control how you could have sex in your bedroom - and several are still trying to do that. Seems that is the exact opposite of less intervention in private matters to me.

And if republicans are also trying to limit internet provided by a community - seems even more so.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 23:21:18 EDT

elray posted :

said by KCrimson:

The locals in the community ARE free to waste their money, they just aren't allowed to waste the taxpayer's money.

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 19:53:14 EDT

Tobester posted :

said by KCrimson:

I think the courts should allow the community to waste their money as they please. If the current market hasn't seen a fiber startup until now, I'm sure it will either fail horribly............

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 19:34:20 EDT

KCrimson posted : I think the courts should allow the community to waste their money as they please. If the current market hasn't seen a fiber startup until now, I'm sure it will either fail horribly (burdening the entire foolish community for generations), or they will change the playing field for such businesses retroactively. Either way, let the buyer beware (and watch the productive and sensible flee).

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 18:54:12 EDT

Tobester posted :

said by BF69:

When the GOP less government intervention they mean less government intervention in BUSINESS not personal matters.

Couldn't agree with you more.

The fact that laws such as North Carolina's preventing local jurisdictions from installing local fiber, to better service the community, show business plutocracy at its best.

Unfortunately, business lobbyists work for money :) and the legislators who should represent the interests of "The People" can be bought with campaign donations.

I thank the "Roberts U.S. Supreme Court" decision for exacerbating the problem too.

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 18:07:59 EDT

jazzlady posted :

said by elray:

said by BF69:

When the GOP less government intervention they mean less government intervention in BUSINESS not personal matters.

Less government intervention in business DOES means less government intervention in personal matters.

Oh seriously?

Right- I forgot- this only applies to men... :-(

Re: That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 15:06:09 EDT

elray posted :

said by BF69:

When the GOP less government intervention they mean less government intervention in BUSINESS not personal matters.

People that live in NC that care not to be backwards need to move out. Maybe when all these southern states lose the most educated( and therefore the higher earning ) citizens they'll learn.

Less government intervention in business DOES means less government intervention in personal matters. I don't want my city controlling my internet access, or taxing me to death to provide it to my lazy neighbors.

I'm glad the GOP is trying to preserve the profit motive, and save my hard-earned money, leaving the risk and liability to shareholders, not burdening the local treasury.

The underlying problem in most of these towns is the unwillingness of the households to pay the local market premium for the service they desire. You don't solve that by taxing your neighbors, you wait until technology provides a lower cost option (LTE, microtrenching), and a vendor sees enough margin to sell it, and/or the economy picks up enough that households find themselves willing to ante up; and no, the economy will not rebound with broadband access.

That's what voting GOP gets you

Tue, 03 May 2011 10:51:31 EDT

BF69 posted : When the GOP less government intervention they mean less government intervention in BUSINESS not personal matters.

People that live in NC that care not to be backwards need to move out. Maybe when all these southern states lose the most educated( and therefore the higher earning ) citizens they'll learn.