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<title>Topic &#x27;Re: Educate the consumers&#x27; in forum &#x27;&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896024</link>
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<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 15:21:43 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 15:21:43 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25897169</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : As I've said before, regulation is supposed to SUPPLEMENT personal responsibility, not be an outright substitute for it.<br><br>You want a corrupt government to uncorrupt itself somehow?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 18:59:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25897160</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : It still takes "educated" people for REAL action to happen.  You're simply asking government to uncorrupt itself, and that will NEVER happen.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 18:57:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25897109</link>
<description><![CDATA[chgo_man99 posted : Its simple as this:<br><br>Government owns backbones ("dumb pipes") throughout the country then it leases to telcos. Anybody can rent and provide end line service to a house through a national telco. Suppose country has 3 national telcos with 1 (A) having 60% control and other 2 (B, C) 20% each. Company has to share its end lines with B,C and B,C have to share their end lines with A. They get reimbursed for it. Then you have virtual providers joining in game, hundreds of them, at least tens in market.  Thats how the market should be with dsl, vdsl, ftth. Cablecos are forced to compete and lower prices. Everybody benefits but nobody dominates the market. <br><br>This model works in most european countries since traditionally there was one national provider originally run by government and later privatized and regulated. <br><br>The U.S had MA Bell like most other countries in the beginning,  laying down and owning the copper but its fate met with a different course in history. Can anybody please give insight into this? ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 18:43:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896933</link>
<description><![CDATA[WernerSchutz posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/594412" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=594412');">Linklist</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>Further regulation might make it, more, difficult for new companies to jump into the industry.  It's quite backwards as-is, but I don't see how more laws/regulation will improve things because most of the larger ISPs will just have a way to have loopholes in place to get around most of it.<br> </p></div>Gov't regulation is almost always a failure in keeping prices in line or creating competition. And that is because regulated companies and their armies of lawyers and lobbyists ALWAYS find a way of manipulating the regulators in to rulings advantageous to those being regulated. And to add to that failure to create competition, the other government side effect is loss of innovation as companies spend more time and money manipulating the regulators than they do on research and development.<br> </p></div>Sure. Let the crooks "compete" and "innovate", we see the results all over the US, the country that INVENTED the Internet. Worked real well. When countries like South Korea and Japan kick our ass while we are spoon fed the corporate propaganda by the providers and their shills I have the utmost faith that giving them freedom to "innovate" will turn even way better. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 17:44:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896914</link>
<description><![CDATA[Linklist posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>Further regulation might make it, more, difficult for new companies to jump into the industry.  It's quite backwards as-is, but I don't see how more laws/regulation will improve things because most of the larger ISPs will just have a way to have loopholes in place to get around most of it.<br> </p></div>Gov't regulation is almost always a failure in keeping prices in line or creating competition. And that is because regulated companies and their armies of lawyers and lobbyists ALWAYS find a way of manipulating the regulators in to rulings advantageous to those being regulated. And to add to that failure to create competition, the other government side effect is loss of innovation as companies spend more time and money manipulating the regulators than they do on research and development.<br><small>--<br>Record your speedtest.net results in DSLReports SpeedWave <br>&raquo;<a rel=nofollow HREF="http://www.speedtest.net/wave/afe201cb84d45c88" >www.speedtest.net/wave/afe201cb84d45c88</A></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 17:37:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896562</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1646149" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1646149');">sonicmerlin</a>:</said><p>This is such a meaningless argument.  Do you even know what a "free market" is? </p></div>The real question, based on this and the rest of your posting history, is: Do YOU know what a "free market" is?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896562</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:53:47 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896435</link>
<description><![CDATA[WernerSchutz posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>So we should rely on these "corrupt" politicians to fix this for us?  My point was that the more consumers know/understand, the more pressure there will be to fix this, as well as innovation to combat it. <br> </p></div>Uh, yeah, since the "choices" presented will be a) corrupt politician, bad OR b) lying politician becoming corrupt, even worse.<br><br>The pressure is for the few to raise in revolt and wake up the idiots that believe what they are told on TV, to reach a critical mass and have the vermin scurry away.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:24:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896371</link>
<description><![CDATA[BlueC posted : So we should rely on these "corrupt" politicians to fix this for us?  My point was that the more consumers know/understand, the more pressure there will be to fix this, as well as innovation to combat it. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896371</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:09:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896354</link>
<description><![CDATA[WernerSchutz posted : "Educated" votes ? Between what ? 2 corrupt choices when one votes, if at all, for the least worst ?<br><br>Only fear will bring the corrupt politicians back where they should be. Only fear of the government's power will bring the corrupt companies back where they belong.<br><br>Fear of the people' wrath, not that "educated" feel good mumbo-jumbo. Show me ONE instance where corruption has been fixed by this "education" and not where violence and bloodshed was the tool that fixed (temporarily) the same garbage that we have here, now.<br><br>Did "education" of the American's fix the taxation without representation of the colonies and did the Brits apologize and graciously fix their ways or did it take many deaths to get rid of the situation that seems to have caught up with us again ?<br><br>What politicians represent the taxpayers' interests and are not working for corporations ? Who will we vote after being "educated" that would not be corrupt and not have any fear to show his corruption since there is no fear of retribution for outright bribery ?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:05:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896350</link>
<description><![CDATA[BlueC posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1646149" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1646149');">sonicmerlin</a>:</said><p>This is such a meaningless argument.  Do you even know what a "free market" is?  Have you even read an Econ 101 book?<br><br>What part of broadband has *no barriers to entry*, *perfect competition*, *near zero profit margins*, etc. etc.?  It's a natural monopoly.<br><br>Education has nothing to do with this.  You're using such a bizarre excuse to blame consumers for being stuck with a duopoly- cable or DSL.<br><br>Line-sharing has been shown to be the most effective regulation for spurring competition, capex growth, and lowering prices.  The FCC's own commissioned study from Harvard's Berkman Center concluded line-sharing was the most effective tactic for the National Broadband Plan's goals.<br><br>The science says line-sharing is the best solution.  <br> </p></div>You just attempted to educate me on a subject.  I guess education has nothing to do with this.<br><br>Carry on.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:04:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896085</link>
<description><![CDATA[sonicmerlin posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>We would have much better results if consumers had a way to be educated properly.  That's my theory on improving things.<br><br>Further regulation might make it, more, difficult for new companies to jump into the industry.  It's quite backwards as-is, but I don't see how more laws/regulation will improve things because most of the larger ISPs will just have a way to have loopholes in place to get around most of it.<br><br>Consumers, as they are educated on what they are paying for, will be able to voice their opinion properly, which will help push for changes in the way service is managed.<br><br>I really don't see it any other way.  I only say this because I have watched consumers be blindly mislead, when they easily could have prevented a provider from earning the business if they had asked the right questions and done the needed due diligence.  It's amazing how many things become overlooked in this industry.  <br><br>Educate the consumers, have them hold the companies accountable for their actions.  The consumers are the ones paying them after all.  Free market works, but only when the consumers know what's truly acceptable.<br> </p></div>This is such a meaningless argument.  Do you even know what a "free market" is?  Have you even read an Econ 101 book?<br><br>What part of broadband has *no barriers to entry*, *perfect competition*, *near zero profit margins*, etc. etc.?  It's a natural monopoly.<br><br>Education has nothing to do with this.  You're using such a bizarre excuse to blame consumers for being stuck with a duopoly- cable or DSL.<br><br>Line-sharing has been shown to be the most effective regulation for spurring competition, capex growth, and lowering prices.  The FCC's own commissioned study from Harvard's Berkman Center concluded line-sharing was the most effective tactic for the National Broadband Plan's goals.<br><br>The science says line-sharing is the best solution.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896085</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:02:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896168</link>
<description><![CDATA[sonicmerlin posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>Why do you think companies take advantage of everyone?  Because no one knows what's even going on.  I'm not talking about the people on this site, we all know the opinions here, but if you honestly took a look at the <b>majority</b> of broadband consumers, you'd be surprised how little knowledge is there.<br><br>Don't you think consumers would have a larger impact if more of them understood how the service even worked?<br><br>This is how things got so screwed up to begin with.  I've been watching companies taking advantage of people, and not because of regulations/laws/franchises/etc, but because they blindly allowed a provider to provide them crappy service.<br><br>Allow consumers to set a higher standard.  Most people don't seem to even care because they don't truly understand it.  Obviously on this site consumers have a better idea, but that's not the case with 99.99% of consumers outside of this site.<br> </p></div>You're just blaming consumers.  There has never been an industry where consumers collectively "punished" a monopoly for high prices.  It all boils down to trust-busting and price regulation.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 15:02:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896260</link>
<description><![CDATA[BlueC posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1664081" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1664081');">WernerSchutz</a>:</said><p>The solution is not to "regulate the hell out of everything" but do some/ANY regulation of these monopolies/duopolies that are monuments of corruption targeted toward the government entities that should do their job and are not doing it.<br><br>Punish the corps that ruthlessly find loopholes, close the loopholes. THAT is the government's job, not wait around and rubber stamp corps' written "laws" while waiting for their next job WITH the corps they were supposed to regulate in the first place.<br><br>Why not abolish also the EPA, FDA and all the citizen protecting agencies ? Abolish police, let the consumer do the "due diligence" about everything (poisoned water and food, have their own guns to protect against crime, drive half tracks on broken roads) since the government really should do nothing except collect taxes and use the money for wars to enrich the rich corporations even more.<br> </p></div>How companies service their consumers is not the same thing as a company dumping toxic waste into a river.  <br><br>Take the time to look over the existing regulations and how telcos function.  It was never setup to be straight forward.  Hell, the government and the corporations work together all the time, and not always to better the consumers.<br><br>Consumers being educated means educated votes.  Plain and simple.  I see more talk about criticism but very few wanting to know/understand more.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896221</link>
<description><![CDATA[WernerSchutz posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by Solutionary :</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1664081" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1664081');">WernerSchutz</a>:</said><p>"Educate" the consumer ? On what, how to get raped ? "Free market works" ? Really ? Where, in the world of regulatory capture ? How can the consumer "keep the companies accountable" when the consumer is screwed by binding arbitration and the government is NOT doing its job to punish monopolies and collusion agreements ?<br> </p></div>If your solution is to regulate the hell out of everything, all you will find is that the corps will find loopholes.<br><br>Regulation is supposed to supplement your own due dilligence, not be a substitute for it.  THIS is why America has gotten itself into so much trouble.  People rely on regulation way too much that they think that they don't have to do their own homework.<br> </p></div>The solution is not to "regulate the hell out of everything" but do some/ANY regulation of these monopolies/duopolies that are monuments of corruption targeted toward the government entities that should do their job and are not doing it.<br><br>Punish the corps that ruthlessly find loopholes, close the loopholes. THAT is the government's job, not wait around and rubber stamp corps' written "laws" while waiting for their next job WITH the corps they were supposed to regulate in the first place.<br><br>Why not abolish also the EPA, FDA and all the citizen protecting agencies ? Abolish police, let the consumer do the "due diligence" about everything (poisoned water and food, have their own guns to protect against crime, drive half tracks on broken roads) since the government really should do nothing except collect taxes and use the money for wars to enrich the rich corporations even more.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896221</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:36:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896200</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1664081" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1664081');">WernerSchutz</a>:</said><p>"Educate" the consumer ? On what, how to get raped ? "Free market works" ? Really ? Where, in the world of regulatory capture ? How can the consumer "keep the companies accountable" when the consumer is screwed by binding arbitration and the government is NOT doing its job to punish monopolies and collusion agreements ?<br> </p></div>If your solution is to regulate the hell out of everything, all you will find is that the corps will find loopholes.<br><br>Regulation is supposed to supplement your own due dilligence, not be a substitute for it.  THIS is why America has gotten itself into so much trouble.  People rely on regulation way too much that they think that they don't have to do their own homework.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896200</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:31:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896186</link>
<description><![CDATA[WernerSchutz posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>Why do you think companies take advantage of everyone?  <br> </p></div>Because using regulatory capture they have rendered useless the government agencies that were supposed to keep watch over them.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:29:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896095</link>
<description><![CDATA[BlueC posted : Why do you think companies take advantage of everyone?  Because no one knows what's even going on.  I'm not talking about the people on this site, we all know the opinions here, but if you honestly took a look at the <b>majority</b> of broadband consumers, you'd be surprised how little knowledge is there.<br><br>Don't you think consumers would have a larger impact if more of them understood how the service even worked?<br><br>This is how things got so screwed up to begin with.  I've been watching companies taking advantage of people, and not because of regulations/laws/franchises/etc, but because they blindly allowed a provider to provide them crappy service.<br><br>Allow consumers to set a higher standard.  Most people don't seem to even care because they don't truly understand it.  Obviously on this site consumers have a better idea, but that's not the case with 99.99% of consumers outside of this site.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896095</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:07:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896072</link>
<description><![CDATA[WernerSchutz posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1692033" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1692033');">BlueC</a>:</said><p>We would have much better results if consumers had a way to be educated properly.  That's my theory on improving things.<br><br>Further regulation might make it, more, difficult for new companies to jump into the industry.  It's quite backwards as-is, but I don't see how more laws/regulation will improve things because most of the larger ISPs will just have a way to have loopholes in place to get around most of it.<br><br>Consumers, as they are educated on what they are paying for, will be able to voice their opinion properly, which will help push for changes in the way service is managed.<br><br>I really don't see it any other way.  I only say this because I have watched consumers be blindly mislead, when they easily could have prevented a provider from earning the business if they had asked the right questions and done the needed due diligence.  It's amazing how many things become overlooked in this industry.  <br><br>Educate the consumers, have them hold the companies accountable for their actions.  The consumers are the ones paying them after all.  Free market works, but only when the consumers know what's truly acceptable.<br> </p></div>"Educate" the consumer ? On what, how to get raped ? "Free market works" ? Really ? Where, in the world of regulatory capture ? How can the consumer "keep the companies accountable" when the consumer is screwed by binding arbitration and the government is NOT doing its job to punish monopolies and collusion agreements ?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Educate-the-consumers-25896072</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 14:03:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Educate the consumers</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Educate-the-consumers-25896024</link>
<description><![CDATA[BlueC posted : We would have much better results if consumers had a way to be educated properly.  That's my theory on improving things.<br><br>Further regulation might make it, more, difficult for new companies to jump into the industry.  It's quite backwards as-is, but I don't see how more laws/regulation will improve things because most of the larger ISPs will just have a way to have loopholes in place to get around most of it.<br><br>Consumers, as they are educated on what they are paying for, will be able to voice their opinion properly, which will help push for changes in the way service is managed.<br><br>I really don't see it any other way.  I only say this because I have watched consumers be blindly mislead, when they easily could have prevented a provider from earning the business if they had asked the right questions and done the needed due diligence.  It's amazing how many things become overlooked in this industry.  <br><br>Educate the consumers, have them hold the companies accountable for their actions.  The consumers are the ones paying them after all.  Free market works, but only when the consumers know what's truly acceptable.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Educate-the-consumers-25896024</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 13:51:56 EDT</pubDate>
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