| Advice on this closet
Small Closet with a two post telecom rack and a 42U Dell rack | 
Overview of the Telecom rack. The units at the bottom are Axis HPOE injectors for cameras | 
Another of the telecom rack | 
Mess of Patch cables | 
Dell Rack with five R710 servers and a custom built server | 
Back of Dell Rack | 
Back of Dell Rack again | 
Back of Telecom Rack...more multimode fiber being pulled in | 
Rear of Brocade 648S switches stacked and Axis HPOE Injectors | 
CAT6 and Single Mode fiber drop. Multimode is the black that is being pulled in and terminated this week. | 
Power and Data drops from dell rack to the telecom rack |
This is for a training center. This closet takes streams from Axis IP cameras into the six servers and sends them out to a main application server that is located over in the main data center.
The single mode fiber is the uplink to the data center. The multimode is going to link a similiar centers cameras into our closet and we will be adding two more servers to handle those cameras.
I would like to move the patch panels so I can put the switches in the middle of them. It would go patch panel>Cable Managment>Switch>Cable Management>Patch Panel>Cable Management>Switch>Cable Management>Patch Panel. Does that sound right?
My thinking was if I put the gear in the telecom rack that way the only long patch cables that I would need to use would be for the servers and the Axis HPOE units.
I also was thinking about ordering patch cables so I can color code things. We have five different devices that are being patched in not counting servers. 2 models of cameras, audio capture unit, screen capture unit, and the HPOE injectors.
Again any advice would be greatly appreciated. Have never really taken on a job like this before. |
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 DaMaGeINCThe Lan ManPremium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2 | How many cameras are being used?
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Hating ignorance since 1984. |
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| I want to say its like 42 cameras, 19 audio units, and 15 screen capture units. |
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netboy34
join:2001-08-29
Kennesaw, GA
kudos:1 | reply to jdj2035
I would see about replacing all those PoE injectors with a PoE switch that can handle 15 cameras... (I bet you can easily find one) and take care of those bottom two sections, and also get rid of the power cord clutter, and you would have 15 less patch cables to deal with... If the budget allows of course...
As for moving the patch panels, From the looks of it, you don't have much play in the slack as it is now... you may need to look in the ceiling to see how much service loop is there that you can extend with, if it is there at all. (good vs. cheap installer) |
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| reply to jdj2035
I 2nd what's been said already with a slightly different twist...
I'd put all the cameras on their own POE switch (with enough wattage, and on a UPS) I'd also connect the recording server's NIC to this same switch.
Use another POE switch for the other things. |
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4 edits | reply to netboy34
Patch Panel service loops |
From my understanding those HPOE injectors are requiered for the cameras that use them. They have a midspan on the camera side that seperates it back out to a standard power source...typing this makes me wonder though if the midspan could get its power from my brocade switch or if it has something in it that will only allow it to operate with an Axis POE injector.
If what I was told was correct the two brocade switches are capable of doing 820Watts of POE per switch so thats 1640watts total.
There is no need for the cameras or audio units to be on a UPS. They aren't being used for surveilance so if the power goes down it is ok if they die. All of this is being ran off of red power so the generatros kick in almost instantly. We put a UPS on the servers and switches so they won't lose power during the changeover time. That being said the only cameras that aren't being feed power through the UPS are the 15 that use the POE injectors.
Edit:
I skipped the POE Injectors and the switch will power the midspan on the other end. Now I just need to get my calculator out and figure out how much power I am pulling off of these switches now.
The only problem that I see with moving the patch panels and switches the way that I wanted to is the stacking cables. I don't think they will be long enough and there is $0 in the budget for anymore network gear since I had them pull that extra fiber in. Any other suggestions on a better layout than what is there for cable management purposes? |
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| reply to jdj2035
Phihong makes HI-POE injectors, which would meet what you require.
»www.phihong.com/html/poe.html
That's the PITA in dealing with the Axis cams that use HIPOE.... Their PTZ domes and some of their box camera housings require it.
For non-HIPOE cameras, G.E. makes switches that can handle POE on all ports at the same time. If you want info on that let me know.
BTW I just completed a design for a 219 camera system, all IP, with several HIPOE cameras....
Talk about a huge headache.
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"Saying something in another language that you don't think the other person understands is just saying that you're a pussy and are too afraid to say it in English." --Harddrive
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 jmichPremium
join:2001-08-28
Toms River, NJ
 ·Comcast
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I would replace the second and third wire managers with the 48 port switches and use 6 or 8 inch patchcables to connect to the patch panel ports. You could color code them by application. As for the POE, the injectors look neat as they are. Those cameras do draw substantial power so a POE switch or chassis POE would be costly. |
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| The brocade switches can do POE on all ports too. If I read Axis' website correct the 215's that are using those hipoe injectors are only pulling 15.4watts. If that's the case I can run all 96 ports on those switches with that model camera and they would handle them just fine. It should since those switches are around $7k each.
The only way that I can see to loose the 2nd and 3rd cable management units in the rear would to add some lacing bars directly behind each patch panel to secure the cable drops. If your seeing something that I am missing please let me know. We are on an extremely tight budget. That's why we don't have blank panels in the Dell rack yet. |
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| Hmmm . . . What benefit are you looking for?
Before I let a tech take a working panel or rack apart my first question is always "What do we stand to gain?" If the answer is increased functionality/reliability or reduced operational or maintenance cost it might make sense.
What I see is racks that aren't perfect, but are in very good shape and a budget that won't allow for equipment replacement. Little to be gained, much to be risked by just rearranging and color-coding stuff.
My advice: think about what you'd do if you had the chance, then implement that plan the next time you have to tear the racks apart for a server or router upgrade. |
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| reply to jdj2035
Re: Advice on this closet Actually I would agree with the above statement as well.
The racks aren't "perfect" but for their size and scope they're just fine. There isn't much to be gained by messing with them unless it's causing problems.
This isn't a case of a complete "If it ain't broke don't fix it", but to be honest they aren't that bad. You risk a lot walking in and deciding you're going to do this and this and this, without possibly knowing the quirks of things and the ultimate risks involved.
Question 1 to be asking yourself and the people of the company, is what isn't working or what is causing problems... If nothing, then ask what would be nice to have or what would be better improved... And let those be your guidelines instead of "I want to make everything perfect and pretty"
From what you've described this sounds like a pretty dependent company on their tech stuff, so risking downtime for something that isn't really an issue, can be a little dangerous.
In my opinnion if it were me walking in, I wouldn't touch a thing. I'd perhaps do a little rack cleaning here and there where needed. But my first goal would be to sit down with everyone and re-evaluate needs and wants, and guide myself from those. |
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| reply to jdj2035
As a second add-in...
You say everything is on a really tight budget, so I REALLY don't see the need to waste tech time and possible disruptions for something that's working. There's also zero reasoning for blank panels in server bays. The more airflow the better. These aren't home theater racks that need to look good, they only need to function and be solid. The only real addition you could possibly do is wire lacing or something like that, but even then the cable management is decent and really doesn't show a reason to be re-built.
I'd say spend more time and resources in stuff like labels, documentation, and disaster-recovery... Especially if you're on a tight budget. These racks really need nothing as far as serious maintenance. |
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 Killa200Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN | reply to jdj2035
If you really want to color code based on device class to try and sort out the wiring, they make DYMO cartridges in several colors that you could band patch cables with. You'd get your colors, plus the labels would be able to be printed on to identify just what that cable is being used for.
Sounds like a better investment than new patchwork, and would save on the downtime to swap things as well. Never know how nasty cycling things will be till you do it,  |
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| reply to jdj2035
I totally agree on not fixing it if it isn't broken. With that out of the way.
I work for the company in question so there would be no extra money being spent out of the budget for these racks to be cleaned up. Other than my normal salary.
We are very dependent on our network to be up when we have things scheduled, but since we are a teaching institute we are sort of dead until August.
As I said in the OP I am adding two servers into the server rack in the next week or so which will bring 4 more data drops from the server rack over to the telecom rack. I was thinking I could clean some things up at that point. I also only have 5 ports left on the two switches so I will more than likely be adding a third switch this summer or in the fall. The new simulators that we are buying will tie into the video system that we are using so they will each need a port.
One thing that I see that could be done(Never really thought about this until I was looking at the pictures while writing this) is run the server data drops over to the rear of the patch panel and punch them in instead of using 25' cat6 cables straight into the switches. This would clean up some of the extra length of cables in the vertical cable management sections.
I walked into this project with the Patch panels and switches already installed and was on a very tight deadline to get the servers in and things patched together. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I had an installer that only had to install the cameras and test them and had to leave at a certain time. After we patched everything we were thrown into finals week and a grand opening so there was no time to go back and redo. Now I have time to clean up the mess.
So no...things aren't broken and they work 95% of the time, but I do have problems out of the servers dropping their data connections at time. I don't think its a wiring issue since we have tested all data drops and rebooting the server fixes the issue, but it would be nice to have a cleaner setup to troubleshoot. I planned on going back and labeling everything with a dynamo printer...just haven't had the time until now. I do have everything documented in a spreadsheet and on blueprints of our center.
I think as far as the telecom rack I am going to try to get some lacing bars to attach the cable drops to so I can lose the 2nd and 3rd set of Horizontal CM units and move the switches into those spots. Then when I add the third switch I will put it below the 3rd patch panel. And as I said those brocade switches do have enough POE power to run the 215 cameras so I can loose those POE injectors that are there.
Any other suggestions are welcome. I appreciate every ones feedback. It helps me see things that I have overlooked or haven't thought of. |
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