Destroy This Message > All of it is TOTAL FRAUD!

All of it is TOTAL FRAUD!

How can you say that? Are you accusing our government of killing ~3000 people in NYC and Washington D.C. to start a war over oil? This war is about some 3000 people dying plain and simple.

Obviously, being from California, you're ignorant to the depth of the feelings of the people in NYC and D.C or the parents of Daniel Perl. To them, and to me, this war is over their mother, brother, son, daughter, best friend, or arch enemy who died as a result of what happened.

Personally, I care more for life than oil and I think our government does too. To suggest otherwise does not only devalue the lives of those who died innocent, it makes you look like a fool! How would you like it if i called the execution of someone who murdered you a government conspiracy for oil! It's downright disrespectful. I did an internship at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter and the woman who was kind enough to let me into her life and office is now dead. Do you she think wanted to be accused of dying for oil?

PS If you truly think it's an oil conspiracy, stop using oil and do something about it! Don't drive your car to work this morning or take the bus. I wouldn't want anymore innocent people to die in an "oil war".

[text was edited by author 2002-02-25 10:35:10]

reply to kilingspam
Thank you VERY much. For all those individuals in this forum who think I am some sort of a crackpot, this is the sort of news that is available to those who are interested in pursuing the truth and not putting credibility in the glossy headlines and soundbytes that are fed to us by the big three prime time ratings clowns.

Anyone interested in scratching beneath the surface, just let me now.

UNOCAL and Halliburton will get their pipeline, through Afghanistan and/or Iran, and the American people will remain fixated on this war on terrorism as long as we are able to round up the usual suspects and parade them in front of the cameras. All Bin Laden wanted was a bigger slice of the oil pie Bush that was dividing. Now watch us get lost in the Colombian jungles protecting Armand Hammer's oil pipeline down there, as well.

Bush has to stop blocking punches with his face.

Good job, killingspam.
--
If my enemy cuts me, I will drown him in my own blood.

reply to TZi
Just as Enron is providing smoking guns that point in unexpected directions, it also provides a model for understanding our larger political situation. Bethany McLean showed in Fortune magazine a year ago that Enron, 'the 7th Largest Corporation In America,' was actually making less money than a small chain of Dairy Queens, yet no one would believe her. Jeffrey Skilling and friends went to her boss and demanded, 'What are her credentials?' Which is another way saying, 'She's just some punk reporter, a chick at that, and who is she to challenge the CEO of the 7th Largest Corporation In America?' And that summed up the entire reaction of Wall Street, brusquely dismissing McLean and continuing to issue 'Strong Buy' ratings on Enron till the bitter end. While Bethany McLean merely possessed the facts, what Skilling and Wall Street possessed is what can be called 'the prevailing narrative;' consisting of what everybody seems to be believing because it's what the particular vested powers of the situation want to be believed. Investors who lost billions in the collapse of the Internet bubble are currently being castigated because they believed the hype; yet during the bubble the business press printed nothing but hype. Same with Enron, same with all of Wall Street, with its pro forma earnings statements and consulting/auditing kickback schemes. The truth can't be told because the viability of the enterprise depends entirely on telling lies.

The facts of the Bush administration's true agenda in Central Asia, and of still undressed questions concerning the events of 9/11, can be discovered by anyone with the slight wit and ambition required to do a Google search. Try 'Zacarias Moussaoui and FISA warrants,' or 'FISA warrants and John Ashcroft and Janet Reno.' According to www.securityfocus.com/news/201 , under Clinton and Janet Reno, "In 2000 as in previous years, no FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) warrant requests were refused." In the current Village Voice, Nat Hentoff reports that Ashcroft's chief legal counsel confirmed to him that FISA requests were rarely refused. Why was Zacarias Moussaoui the exception to the rule? An identified terrorist, already in custody on the basis of an expired visa and the paying of large wads of cash for rather selectively chosen flying skills? Now known to be the 20th hijacker? And why has MSNBC apparently scrubbed their original reporting on this issue? (Saved at www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Access%20Denied.htm?cp1=1)

Do a search on Afghanistan, Caspian Sea Oil, pipelines, Unocal, etc., it's all out there. For a good overview, check out the Asia Times - »atimes.com/c-asia/DA25Ag01.html and »www.atimes.com/c-asia/DA26Ag01.html . The same story is found in the Russian press, the Indian press, the English press, etc. They have the mere facts, they just don't fit the prevailing narrative we're getting from CNN and Fox.

And speaking of whispers and murmurings, run a Google on 'Operation Northwoods,' and wonder why ABCNews chose this moment to confirm that in the early 1960's our Pentagon planned a coordinated series of attacks on American cities, airliners and ships to be blamed on Cuba, providing justification for an invasion of that country.

Only by looking back at history can you see forward to build a better future.
EVERYONE should have a major in history!!!

reply to TZi
Daniel Pearl. I am suspecious that he likely was discovering more info about the US in Afganistan that he was about the Taliban. I know and admit to being a cynic so take my beliefs with a grain of salt.

I put at least 50% of the blame of 9/11 on the US governments letting corporations run roughshot over citizens rights. When you dance with the Devil, 9/11 is what you get. Don't blame the devil for simply being himself.

Opening the Alaskan refuge for oil because of 9/11??? Last time I checked we weren't getting any oil from Afganistan. So why now do we need to divest ourselves of middle-eastern oils??

Did you read the story about the Russian billionare claiming to have evidence that the Russian Government was behind the bombings of the Russian civilian apartments in an attempt to garner public support of invasion of Czeck Rrepublic? Same chit different nation.

Yea, you gotta keep you eyes open on these fools. Not to mention that Enron executive who off-ed himself in the middle of a Texas highway. Hmm. I can think of better places for a remorseful person to kill himself. You know most people who commit suicide do it in such a way not to hurt anyone else...

I admit that sometimes I may be overly cynical, but some times people want to believe its all good and they just ignore the facts. Them we call ignorant.

Be sure you check my biblical quote below. This chit has been going on for all of time. The revolutionary war was fought over this exact thing. Corporations raping the citizens.
--
dnoyeB"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
The government is pricing our rights our of our reach.

reply to nc1165
Lets not forget the occasional "security alert" to divert attention for any real information which might be forthcoming.

reply to TZi

said by TZi:

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I care more for life than oil and I think our government does too

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said by Ranukhan:

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said by TZi:

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I care more for life than oil and I think our government does too

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And I still believe it was the government that sunk the Lusitania and blamed it on the Cubans.

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reply to kilingspam
In response to kilingspam: You should explain to Osama bin Laden, the Palestinians, Israelis, and the the families of the three thousand killed in the WTC, including the 25,000 children who lost one or both of their parents that it is "simply about oil." I am sure that the last thoughts of the hijackers were of the price of a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil, now there is something worth dying over.
[text was edited by author 2002-02-25 14:09:38]

said by Lost in Space:

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In response to kilingspam: You should explain to Osama bin Laden, the Palestinians, Israelis, and the the families of the three thousand killed in the WTC, including the 25,000 children who lost one or both of their parents that it is "simply about oil." I am sure that the last thoughts of the hijackers were of the price of a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil, now there is something worth dying over.
[text was edited by author 2002-02-25 14:09:38]

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reply to SAM Hunter$
Perhaps you need to go to Hiroshima and tell the people there it was necessary for us to drop an ATOMIC bomb on men, women, children. Kids were in school, women having babies, people getting married, having dinner, KABOOM!
There are people still alive today living in extreme pain from radiation burns over 20% of their bodies not to mention cancer from the radiation.
When WE dropped that BOMB at 8:15am.
WE killed 140,000 men, women, & children.
400,000 were left alive.
352,000 of those had/have health & disabilites from that bomb.
Here is a picture of the city after.
»mothra.rerf.or.jp/Images/giff/Dome.gif

Oh, don't forget three days later we did it again at Nagasaki.
WE dropped that bomb at 11:02am.
There WE killed 73,884 men, women, children.
Another 74,909 had/have health & disabilites from that bomb.

I can't even begin to imagine the millions of Jews who were killed by the Nazis. All because ONE man wanted to create HIS vision of a perfect world.

As I have stated above, you should never forget History.

BTW. The White House LET Pearl Harbor happen to gain 100% support from the American people to drop those bombs.

Oh, don't forget, WE (American CIA) educated and trained Osama Bin laden to be the killer he is.

(Evil doers abound on both sides of the fence. They always have)

I LOVE my Country.
I FEAR my Government.
[text was edited by author 2002-02-25 15:31:49]

Well, at least there is one group we don't need to remind of how we decimated their populations - small pox served to be the most lethal weapon of all time as it was used to wipe out entire Native American tribes and villages.

BTW, terror alert number 155 - Senator declares there are over 100 al-Quaeda members still in the U.S. If I have the need to defend my country, so be it. But it won't be for some Texas two-stepper and his petroleum lackeys.
--
If my enemy cuts me, I will drown him in my own blood.

reply to kilingspam
War is hell, and the Japanese government brought the disaster on their people. The second bomb was the direct result of the government's arrogance, as they were ordered to unconditionally surrender after the first bomb, and given warning that a second would be dropped. They didn't surrender immediately, and the bomb was dropped again. It was a hard lesson, but one learned well. Don't take atomic bombs lightly.

reply to RARPSL
Woops! I was thinking of the Lusitania and the Maine at the same time and messed up what I was talking about. I have heard of a Conspiracy Theory that the British purposefully sent the Lusitania into harms way to persuade America to get involved, but I have a hard time swallowing that one.

But your right, I did mean the Maine.
--
ICQ - 139492227, Odigo - 903182, AIM - Ranukhan

reply to kilingspam
Just a historical point from a person who has studied the history of WWII:

Operation OLYMPIC was the invasion plan of Japan before it was known that the atomic bomb programme was going to work. This particular plan involved an assault of Kyushu in 1945 as a preliminary to the massive invasion of the main island of Honshu [known as Operation CORONET; to take place in MArch 1946].

The estimated casualties for these two operations were approximately 1 million American soldiers. The Japanese casualties would have been approximately 2-3 million.

All of a sudden the bomb becomes available, and we use it to drop Japan into submission. By your count, if we include the wounded, there are 492,000 casualties.

492k casualties vs. 2-4 million.

Gee. What a choice.

Secondarily, that little tidbit about Roosevelt knowing about Pearl Harbor? It has been bandied about by some historians...but it has not yet been given credible status as hard and true fact. It's just a maybe.

At least, that's per college professors who specialize in the subject. *shrugs*

I am glad to see someone else also has studied history! =o)

My post was simply a rebuttal to the post above it.
It was to point out 9-11 was a tragic moment in history,
like many others have been.

The point in question about Pearl Harbor.
Who knows if we will ever know the whole story.

Yup. 9-11 was just like other moments we've had - we just hadn't experienced one in a while.

OTOH, all of the stuff about this data being removed and that stuff being taken off the net - it's not something I worry about very much. Similar things occur throughout the entire history of America and the world. This will be no different then the 90s or 80s or 70s or 60s und so weiter.

As for Pearl Harbor, yes, we will probably never know.

reply to TZi

said by TZi:

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How can you say that? Are you accusing our government of killing ~3000 people in NYC and Washington D.C. to start a war over oil? This war is about some 3000 people dying plain and simple.

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ignore this

reply to MrTangent

Re: All of it is TOTAL FRAUD!