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ArizonaSteve

join:2004-01-31
Apache Junction, AZ
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·CenturyLink

Qwest Wants Me To Help Them Troubleshoot?

After sending an email to Qwest complaining about the DSL they just installed slowing down and stopping every afternoon between 2-5PM and being slow all evening on Friday and Saturday they said at first the signal was too weak so I told them to turn it up if it was too low, DUH! Then I got this reply. It seems they want me to help troubleshoot the problem but I never heard of that before. I don't know why Qwest can't maintain their own lines. Did Century Link layoff all the service personnel?
Even though I've eliminated any problem at my end by checking out at the pole I don't mind helping if it will fix their problem but I can't work for them for free. The modem is online all the time so this doesn't really make sense. Has anyone else ran into this?

Reply from Qwest:
"I apologize, connection issues are hard to trouble shoot through
email. Many things may cause connection issue. It can also be a
combination of factors. Unfortunately, in order for us to
troubleshoot your issue effectively, we will have to test the activity
on the server and the account, and we need you to be online with us
for this to occur. Please call our 24-hour Technical Support via
telephone at 888-777-9569. We apologize for any inconvenience this
might cause."


mdrift

join:2003-08-15
Spokane, WA

said by ArizonaSteve:

After sending an email to Qwest complaining about the DSL they just installed slowing down and stopping every afternoon between 2-5PM and being slow all evening on Friday and Saturday they said at first the signal was too weak so I told them to turn it up if it was too low, DUH! Then I got this reply. It seems they want me to help troubleshoot the problem but I never heard of that before. I don't know why Qwest can't maintain their own lines. Did Century Link layoff all the service personnel?
Even though I've eliminated any problem at my end by checking out at the pole I don't mind helping if it will fix their problem but I can't work for them for free. The modem is online all the time so this doesn't really make sense. Has anyone else ran into this?

Reply from Qwest:
"I apologize, connection issues are hard to trouble shoot through
email. Many things may cause connection issue. It can also be a
combination of factors. Unfortunately, in order for us to
troubleshoot your issue effectively, we will have to test the activity
on the server and the account, and we need you to be online with us
for this to occur. Please call our 24-hour Technical Support via
telephone at 888-777-9569. We apologize for any inconvenience this
might cause."

Welcome to what those of us have known for a long time--Qwest cuts corners in all areas.

CappinHoff

join:2007-01-05
Des Moines, IA
Reviews:
·Mediacom

said by mdrift:

said by ArizonaSteve:

After sending an email to Qwest complaining about the DSL they just installed slowing down and stopping every afternoon between 2-5PM and being slow all evening on Friday and Saturday they said at first the signal was too weak so I told them to turn it up if it was too low, DUH! Then I got this reply. It seems they want me to help troubleshoot the problem but I never heard of that before. I don't know why Qwest can't maintain their own lines. Did Century Link layoff all the service personnel?
Even though I've eliminated any problem at my end by checking out at the pole I don't mind helping if it will fix their problem but I can't work for them for free. The modem is online all the time so this doesn't really make sense. Has anyone else ran into this?

Reply from Qwest:
"I apologize, connection issues are hard to trouble shoot through
email. Many things may cause connection issue. It can also be a
combination of factors. Unfortunately, in order for us to
troubleshoot your issue effectively, we will have to test the activity
on the server and the account, and we need you to be online with us
for this to occur. Please call our 24-hour Technical Support via
telephone at 888-777-9569. We apologize for any inconvenience this
might cause."

Welcome to what those of us have known for a long time--Qwest cuts corners in all areas.

No, what they do is have you do something bandwidth intensive while your on the phone with them. They will check your signals and bandwidth going to and from your modem. I did it once with them.

TheMayor

join:2002-05-09
reply to ArizonaSteve

They did the same thing for me when I called in for the one issue that I had (which ended up not being any issue with the line). They looked at my line & asked for me to start downloading something that was fairly decent size so they could see what was happening with my line

said by ArizonaSteve:

Reply from Qwest:
"I apologize, connection issues are hard to trouble shoot through
email. Many things may cause connection issue. It can also be a
combination of factors. Unfortunately, in order for us to
troubleshoot your issue effectively, we will have to test the activity
on the server and the account, and we need you to be online with us
for this to occur. Please call our 24-hour Technical Support via
telephone at 888-777-9569. We apologize for any inconvenience this
might cause."


nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to ArizonaSteve

Construction department most likely will be contracted out under Centurylink for starters.
No reason for them to ask for you to check the pole. May ask for you to see if you have a demarc point on the house.

Checking line is as others said they need activity on the line to test it on their end so why our on phone with them as they test.



retiredqwest

join:2005-04-01
Spokane, WA
reply to ArizonaSteve

Speedtests are mostly worthless and don't show what is really going on.

IF you want to troubleshoot your line at your end it is very simple. Read this post in the FAQ.

»US West/Qwest DSL »What are good or bad numbers from the WAN status page?

WAN stats will provide far more info than a speed test. If the numbers are so-so you will want to try plugging in the modem at the demarc to eliminate your house wiring.

Also post the WAN stats here as there are some people here who can decipher them for you.


mikeiver7

join:2008-04-13
Albany, NY
reply to ArizonaSteve

Allot of xDSL routers have some sort of diagnostic function built in that will log line conditions and errors. Go look at the web server built into the router, it likely will be there.

On your end of the issue, their request is not that out of line as others have posted and has good reason. Verizon did this with my connection as well. There are also things you can do to minimize poor line conditions after the MPO or demark. I like to put an xDSL filter at the demark and feed the whole house with it. I separate the line that I am going to be putting the xDSL router on and feed it the clean line. This keeps the router from pushing into the house wiring and ensures that it gets the best line conditions. Ideally you replace the wire with good new CAT3 wire or even place the router at the demark and run CAT5e to your computer/s.

Do not use CAT5e for the phone line to the router. The capacitance per meter is much higher than that of CAT3 and will have a detrimental effect on the performance if the run is a fair length.

Hope the above helps a bit.



FarmerBob

join:2000-12-21
Littleton, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
·EarthLink
·ViaTalk

said by mikeiver7:

. . . Do not use CAT5e for the phone line to the router. The capacitance per meter is much higher than that of CAT3 and will have a detrimental effect on the performance if the run is a fair length.

That's strange. I have had 24AWG Cat5 (175-200 ft) for years (Sprint installed it for their 10/10 SDSL and 4 phone line ION service) and have used it with many services and this was never brought up. And the one Q Tech that was able to find my initial problem with Qwest, bad lines from the CO to the cross box (that have been fixed with FTTN or so said), after many techs failed, said he got the same identical reading at the NID as he did at the plug. And reading the bare wire for resistance issues said the line from the NID to the jack that plugged directly into the modem "was the cleanest and best run he'd ever seen". Then with his personal knowledge of Qwest line noise issues and their hardware, he grabbed the right modem (2Wire 2701HG-D) that he knew could deal with the noise on the Qwest lines. I already had every modem Qwest used, from trying to TS this for years, and they did not work, except that one. Until recently, even with the new FTTN upgrade in my area, it did the trick nicely. That is until I started having complete phone and DSL outages. A couple weeks ago I was sent a PK5000, no difference.

I have always heard and noticed, as well as what the manufacturing specs are, that as you go up Cat4, 5, 5e, 6, 7 the transmission capability gets better? Would that not hold the same for this? Or are we talking a Qwest thing here? Just very curious. Thanks.

CappinHoff

join:2007-01-05
Des Moines, IA
Reviews:
·Mediacom

said by FarmerBob:

said by mikeiver7:

. . . Do not use CAT5e for the phone line to the router. The capacitance per meter is much higher than that of CAT3 and will have a detrimental effect on the performance if the run is a fair length.

That's strange. I have had 24AWG Cat5 (175-200 ft) for years (Sprint installed it for their 10/10 SDSL and 4 phone line ION service) and have used it with many services and this was never brought up. And the one Q Tech that was able to find my initial problem with Qwest, bad lines from the CO to the cross box (that have been fixed with FTTN or so said), after many techs failed, said he got the same identical reading at the NID as he did at the plug. And reading the bare wire for resistance issues said the line from the NID to the jack that plugged directly into the modem "was the cleanest and best run he'd ever seen". Then with his personal knowledge of Qwest line noise issues and their hardware, he grabbed the right modem (2Wire 2701HG-D) that he knew could deal with the noise on the Qwest lines. I already had every modem Qwest used, from trying to TS this for years, and they did not work, except that one. Until recently, even with the new FTTN upgrade in my area, it did the trick nicely. That is until I started having complete phone and DSL outages. A couple weeks ago I was sent a PK5000, no difference.

I have always heard and noticed, as well as what the manufacturing specs are, that as you go up Cat4, 5, 5e, 6, 7 the transmission capability gets better? Would that not hold the same for this? Or are we talking a Qwest thing here? Just very curious. Thanks.

I actually run CAT5e from the gray box outside to a terminal inside. Then from the terminal to my modem/router. The CAT5e was even bought from menards. No real issues. Even when Qwest cam out to troubleshoot some issues they liked what I did and even redid the connections.


FarmerBob

join:2000-12-21
Littleton, CO
reply to ArizonaSteve

This very second there is a "Pro" Residential Technologies van outside a new neighbors massive remodel. I asked them what they were running for base cabling and was told Cat7 for everything. And using Comcast as the DSL provider.


mikeiver7

join:2008-04-13
Albany, NY
reply to FarmerBob

There has been a shift towards using CAT5e or better lately but on older runs the CAT5e will not get you anything in way of performance. The xDSL just doesn't drive that kind of bandwidth down the line. The phone systems physical network is different from that of the Ethernet physical. The phone system is much more lax compared to Ethernet.

CAT7, are you kidding me? CAT5e for GigE is just fine provided you use good connectors and proper termination. I run all GigE at my home and have 16 drops in total and all run with no lost packets day and night. Save your money!



FarmerBob

join:2000-12-21
Littleton, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
·EarthLink
·ViaTalk

1 edit

said by mikeiver7:

. . . CAT7, are you kidding me? CAT5e for GigE is just fine provided you use good connectors and proper termination. I run all GigE at my home and have 16 drops in total and all run with no lost packets day and night. Save your money!

That's the same reaction I got when I was running 5e and it was the latest and greatest. In a couple of years 7 will be common and for now "future proofed" when they say this about Cat12 . . .

mikeiver7

join:2008-04-13
Albany, NY

The price of 10GigE is likely not to come down to where it is reasonable for the average user to own the hardware. Add in the fact that the clients are not going to exploit even a 10th of that capability and you have a waste of money. An HD stream is only on the order of 40Mb/s or so so what are you going to do with the other 99.75% of the bandwidth? Even the video stream driving the digital projection systems used in the commercial movie theaters is only 3Gb/s. By the way, they use a pair of BNC terminated coax lines for the link.

Frankly, if you are really worried about future proofing your infrastructure then you should be thinking fibre rather than copper. It is cheaper, more reliable and even run of the mill stuff can carry 100Gb/s no problem. There will be no interference, no length limit (at least not one you likely need be concerned with, 550M for Multimode), no corrosion issues, easier to terminate than CAT7. The list goes on.

Personally I can't see 10GigE over copper as being practical and would hedge my bets towards fibre at those speeds and above. The reason that the carriers are moving towards fibre is the reduction of maintenance cost and the future proofing that comes with it as well.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to FarmerBob

said by FarmerBob:

This very second there is a "Pro" Residential Technologies van outside a new neighbors massive remodel. I asked them what they were running for base cabling and was told Cat7 for everything.

I had to look that up. Apparently CAT 7 is not supported for the for 8P8C connectors. Since I don't plan on upgrading my LAN to 10GigE any time soon, I guess I will stick with Cat5e.

And using Comcast as the DSL provider.

Since when did does Comcast provide DSL anywhere?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


FarmerBob

join:2000-12-21
Littleton, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
·EarthLink
·ViaTalk

said by NormanS:

I had to look that up. Apparently CAT 7 is not supported for the for 8P8C connectors. Since I don't plan on upgrading my LAN to 10GigE any time soon, I guess I will stick with Cat5e.

Oh really. Please see below. (some light reading and a little added info for you) Then maybe it's not for you. But installers are using it. And from what the comparison specs says Cat 5 and 5e are basically the same.

UTP cabling has become the cable structure of most companies because it was easier to install and less expensive. UTP CAT3 and CAT4 were used for a quite limited time since the emergence of 100Base-TX networks resulted in a quick change over to CAT5. The current increase of use of gigabit (1000Base-TX) Ethernet LANs created a need for another specification which is CAT6. CAT5e. CAT5e is now being superseded by CAT6 cable and there is a developing standard for CAT7. Xmultiple connectors are designed to work with the emerging CAT6 with most of our product line series. Listed below are specifications of the different CATx categories in use today.

CAT5 and CAT5e are almost the same. The CAT5e specification includes some additional limits over the CAT5 specification. The reality therefore is the CAT5 is in fact CAT5e. It just not certified as such.

CAT6 & CAT6a Strict Specifications With More Stringent Crosstalk and System Noise Features.

Category 6 cable, commonly referred to as Cat-6, is a cable standard for Gigabit Ethernet and other network protocols that is backward compatible with the Category 5/5e and Category 3 cable standards. Cat-6 features more stringent specifications for crosstalk and system noise. The cable standard provides performance of up to 250 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T / 100BASE-TX and 1000BASE-T / 1000BASE-TX (Gigabit Ethernet).

The cable contains four twisted copper wire pairs. This is the same as CAT5 and CAT5e copper cable standards. Cat-6 is also made with 23 gauge wire, however this is not a requirement. The ANSI/TIA-568-B.2-1 specification indicates the cable may be made with 22 to 24 AWG wire. For local area network patch cables, Cat-6 is normally terminated with 8P8C modular connectors. The modular connectors are the RJ-45" electrical connectors manufactured by Xmultiple and other connector companies. Cat-6 RJ45 connectors are made to higher standards with improved gold plating and higher performance design of contact pins alignment which reduce noise caused by crosstalk and system interference. Attenuation, NEXT (Near End Crosstalk), and PSNEXT (Power Sum NEXT) are all significantly lower when compared to Cat-5/5e. There is one problem with Cat-6 cables which is they are larger and increase size. Therefore they are more difficult to attach to 8P8C connectors without a special modular piece. They are technically not standard compliant if they do not insert into a RJ45 connector. The maximum allowed length of a Cat-6 cable is 100 meters (330 ft) when used for 10/100/1000baseT and 55 meters (180 ft) when used for 10GbaseT.

CAT7 Strict Specifications For Crosstalk

Category 7 cable (Cat7), (ISO/IEC 11801:2002 category 7/class F), is a cable standard for Ethernet and other interconnect technologies. CAT 7 is backwards compatible with traditional Cat5 and Cat6 Ethernet. Cat7 features even more strict specifications for crosstalk and system noise than Cat6. Shielding has been added for individual wire pairs on the Category 7 cable.

Cat7 has been designed as a standard for Gigabit Ethernet over 100m of copper cabling. The cable contains four twisted copper wire pairs, just like the earlier standards. Cat7 can be terminated either with 8P8C compatible GG45 electrical connectors which incorporate the 8P8C standard or with TERA connectors.

When combined with GG45 or TERA connectors, Cat7 cable is rated for transmission frequencies of up to 600 MHz. Xmultiple's UltraJAX connectors are designed specifically for these high speeds with not contact pins and a printed circuit board with contact pads integrated into the RJ45 style housing.

CAT7a For Frequencies up to 1000MHz

Category 7a which is also commonly referred to as Augmented Category 7, operates at frequencies up to 1000 MHz. CAT7a is designed for multiple applications in a single cable including 40 Gigabit Ethernet, 100 Gigabit Ethernet, and CATV (862 MHz). Test results have shown 40 Gigabit Ethernet will work up to 50 meters and 100 Gigabit Ethernet is possible up to 15 meters.


Source for the above: »www.xmultiple.com/xwebsite-forum24.htm

Since when did does Comcast provide DSL anywhere?

Excuse me for using DSL as a "generic term". As was used in the conversation with the installers. We all knew what was being said. And no need for clarification between us.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by FarmerBob:

Excuse me for using DSL as a "generic term". As was used in the conversation with the installers. We all knew what was being said. And no need for clarification between us.

You don't want to use "det cord" as a "generic" substitute for "time cord"; trust me! Tech jargon exists for a reason.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


FarmerBob

join:2000-12-21
Littleton, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
·EarthLink
·ViaTalk

said by NormanS:

You don't want to use "det cord" as a "generic" substitute for "time cord"; trust me! Tech jargon exists for a reason.

What this has to do with anything, I'm not sure? But DSL and Internet Connection are pretty benign and interchangeable in idle conversation. But I agree about primer cord or sun cord.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by FarmerBob:

What this has to do with anything ...

Just a sign of the times.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum