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<title>Topic &#x27;Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s&#x27; in forum &#x27;&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060447</link>
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<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 18:16:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26072109</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : Um...you do realize the Internet is how all email is sent? Just for example.<br><br>I thought at first your post was sarcastic, but you really do seem to think the "Internet" is something different from what it is: a worldwide network of millions of computers we rely on for hundreds of things every day.<br><br>I'm still hoping you were joking, but if you really do think the Internet is used only for listening to music and watching, videos, and should be restricted to whomever ISPs decide is "worthy", then I hope you're also wiling to live in a world where only the "worthy" can send e-mail, access reference materials from home, pay bills without having to write a check and put it in an envelope...where there are no ATMs, or affordable merchant accounts for small businesses, where software such as TurboTax no longer exists...where there is no longer any possibility of "telecommuting", or a mother with children running a profitable small business from home, even if the children are crying...<br><br>Also good luck at this point easily booking a cheap plane flight, or finding all the products you would like in stock at your local grocery store, or sending a letter without paying 3 times as much for postage. Say good-bye to attending college while working, no matter what your schedule is, and go back to correspondence courses by snail mail, or having to take time off from work to attend a class that is offered only during work hours on a weekday.<br><br>The vast majority of Internet traffic is still NOT music or video...and not all the video or music is for entertainment purposes anyway.<br><br>So tell the businesses and individuals who rely on off-site backups they can no longer access them, because they are not "worthy" to have Internet access since they waste part of their time accessing educational videos or attending on-line traffic school or posting their resume online looking for a better job so they can support a family...<br><br>And tell the military, so sorry...but soldiers will no longer be able to see their families while they chat with them over webcam, and, for that matter, will be waiting in line a long time for their turn at the telephone, because IM and VOIP are no longer available to them...oh, and also sorry that overseas call, instead of being free, is going to cost you or your family $50.<br><br>Yes, again, I hope I've read the message wrong, and you are being extremely sarcastic...but I have to say, it sure doesn't sound like it.<br><br>Prepared to be laughed at, but willing to risk it,<br>cord]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:36:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26067858</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : This is really sad.<br>You keep confusing <b>web hosting</b> with<br><b>transmitting, routing, or providing connections (including temp storage during transmission)</b><br><br>(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications.<br>Section A covers and ISP from all liability - for "transmitting, routing, or providing connections "<br><br>(c) Information <b>Residing</b> on Systems or Networks At Direction of Users<br>Section C covers <b>"for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage" </b><br>Section C clearly states "Residing", not "transmitting, routing, or providing connections".<br><br>If a users places content on an ISPs network somewhere like in remote email, web hosting, backup space, file servers the ISP needs to forward a takedown letter for protection as stated in section C.<br>If an ISP just provides a connection from the customer's network to the internet and transmits and receives the customers content they are 100% protected as stated in section A.<br><br>The words are pretty clear and distinct, I do not understand what is so damn confusing about this.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 11:34:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26067781</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>If you can't read the words in your own link and read the law then please stop posting.<br>Really you are arguing against your own link to the law, not me. This is pretty sad. </p></div>What's sad is that you took the time to read that link, and didn't read section (c) of the same law and see why Managed Solutions Group & Akanoc lost the case.  They owned none of the servers in question, had no control over what content was on the servers -- they simply provided space, power and network.<br><br><blockquote>(c) Information Residing on Systems <b>or Networks</b> At Direction of Users.&#151;<br>(1) In general.&#151; A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a system or <b>network controlled or operated by or for the service provider</b>, if the service provider&#151;<br>(A)<br><b>(i) does not have actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing;</b><br>(ii) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent; or<br><b>(iii) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;</b><br>(B) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity; and<br>(C) upon notification of claimed infringement as described in paragraph (3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.</blockquote><br><br>There is a word that describes the folks who made the same argument you did that simply being a transit provider gives them blanket immunity:  <i>guilty</i>.   It's a misunderstanding of what a transit provider is in the context of the law, which proved costly in the Managed / AKANoc case.  <br><br>The transit network provider clause in section (a) only applies to true transit networks like Level(3), GlobalCrossing, etc.   Network providers that serve other networks, where the carrier has no way of knowing the end user of an IP because they don't own the network responsible for being the source of the infringing material.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 11:08:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26065529</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/373609" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=373609');">espaeth</a>:</said><p>The ISP is only granted immunity until they are informed of the violation.  (They can't be prosecuted for violations they are not informed about)  After they've been informed, as this court ruling shows, they <b>MUST</b> take action or they become complicit in the violation.<br> </p></div>Not according to your link which say the ISP is protected unless they do not comply with the court order.<br><br>   <BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL>said by yourlink :</SMALL><HR> Section 512(j) describes the forms of injunctive (i.e. court order) relief available to copyright holders. Even though OSPs have immunity from monetary damages under Section 512, they may be compelled by copyright holders, in appropriate situations, to stop providing access to infringing material or to terminate the account of a particular infringer.<br><br><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><br><br>Your link clearly states that ISP are protected from customers transmitting and receiving copyright data.  An ISP is under no obligation to forward any letters for any protection. They are already 100% protected.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:51:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26065508</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : If you can't read the words in your own link and read the law then please stop posting.<br>Really you are arguing against your own link to the law, not me. This is pretty sad.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:47:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26064453</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/485969" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=485969');">Gbcue</a>:</said><p>For webhosts to have safe harbor provisions intact, they need to remove the infringing material quickly.  In the case of LV vs. Chen, it sounds like Chen did *not* remove the material quickly (24-48h) and therefore, should be liable.</p></div>The Managed Solutions Group division in question was AKANoc which provided pure colocation services out of Market Post Tower in San Jose.   They had no control over the servers as they didn't own any of the server hardware.  Their role was very similar to an ISP in that they only provided network connectivity to their clients along with space and power for the servers.   They still lost the lawsuit because they had no records of any attempts to notify their customers of the complaints they'd received.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/485969" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=485969');">Gbcue</a>:</said><p>Most ISPs forward you the copyright notice.  Since they don't own any of the infringing content, it is up to the END USER to comply with any notice.</p></div>The act of identifying and recording the end user information along with submitting notice of the copyright violation is what provides the ISP with safe harbor protection under OCILLA.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 12:47:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26064107</link>
<description><![CDATA[Gbcue posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/373609" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=373609');">espaeth</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>A public ISP is 100% not liable for any copyrighted material. The clause you are speaking about to forward letters is not needed as they are already 100% protected from being liable as stated in your link.</p></div>Louis Vuitton claimed that Chen and his hosting companies were contributing to the illegal activities by providing the infrastructure that enabled the sale of counterfeit goods. <b>They further said that Chen and his companies had been informed of the activity by Louis Vuitton but still refused to implement a policy for removing the offending sites, which was their responsibility.</b><br><br>This is no different than the subscriber of an ISP distributing copyrighted material, a DMCA notice is supplied to the ISP (who owns the IP), and the ISP takes no action.  Given that there are now cases to establish precedence, there is no way in hell an ISP is going to simply ignore DMCA complaints.   <br> </p></div>For webhosts to have safe harbor provisions intact, they need to remove the infringing material quickly.  In the case of LV vs. Chen, it sounds like Chen did *not* remove the material quickly (24-48h) and therefore, should be liable.<br><br>Most ISPs forward you the copyright notice.  Since they don't own any of the infringing content, it is up to the END USER to comply with any notice.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.gbcue.com/">My Blog 2.2</a></small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 12:26:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26064134</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>You seem to keep confusing <b>web hosting</b> with<br><b>transmitting, routing, or providing connections (including temp storage during transmission)</b> </p></div>The distinction isn't important in this context.   Their role also wasn't web hosting, they were providing colocation services for the websites in question.   They did nothing but provide space, power, and connectivity for the servers hosting those websites.  <br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>An ISP is 100% protected from lawsuits from any customer that transmits or receives copyrighted material. Forwarding letters is not required and has nothing to do with that protection. Forwarding letters is required if the ISP is "hosting" content in terms of a web server. </p></div>An ISP is only provided immunity <i>if they have not been informed of a violation</i>.   Basically you can't be implicated for material in violation going over your wires if you haven't been been given the opportunity to rectify the situation.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>The law does not require an ISP to forward letters for protection and the customers are not paying for that activity.</p></div>The ISP is only granted immunity until they are informed of the violation.  (They can't be prosecuted for violations they are not informed about)  After they've been informed, as this court ruling shows, they <b>MUST</b> take action or they become complicit in the violation.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:45:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26064069</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : Again you ignore what the law that you link to says.<br><br>What you stated about Akanoc and Managed solutions does not apply to an ISP. WHat you stated applys to web hosting and the arguement was for dummy web hosting vs web hosting and controlling the content.<br>  <BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL>said by your quote :</SMALL><HR>The defense lawyers said Chen and his companies could not be held liable for the actions of Web sites they might have hosted but did not directly own or operate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><br><br>You seem to keep confusing <b>web hosting</b> with<br><b>transmitting, routing, or providing connections (including temp storage during transmission)</b><br><br>An ISP is 100% protected from lawsuits from any customer that transmits or receives copyrighted material. Forwarding letters is not required and has nothing to do with that protection. Forwarding letters is required if the ISP is "hosting" content in terms of a web server.<br><br>The law does not require an ISP to forward letters for protection and the customers are not paying for that activity.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:28:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26063522</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>A public ISP is 100% not liable for any copyrighted material. The clause you are speaking about to forward letters is not needed as they are already 100% protected from being liable as stated in your link.</p></div>I'm not ignoring the link, and despite what you think that says, the courts have already ruled differently in a web hosting case.  <br><br><blockquote>Lawyers for Chen had argued that Akanoc and Managed Solutions were protected under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's (DMCA), which limits the liability of ISPs for activities by its customers that might constitute copyright infringements. The defense lawyers said Chen and his companies could not be held liable for the actions of Web sites they might have hosted but did not directly own or operate.<br><br>Louis Vuitton claimed that Chen and his hosting companies were contributing to the illegal activities by providing the infrastructure that enabled the sale of counterfeit goods. They further said that Chen and his companies had been informed of the activity by Louis Vuitton but still refused to implement a policy for removing the offending sites, which was their responsibility.<br><br>The verdict "establishes a standard" for trademark infringement complaints on the Internet, said Andy Coombs, Louis Vuitton's counsel, in a statement. "It represents a positive contribution to existing case law and marks the first time statutory damages have been awarded against those found contributorily liable for trademark infringement," Coombs said.</blockquote><br><b>Source:</b> &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9137385/Web_hosters_ordered_to_pay_32M_for_contributing_to_trademark_infringement?taxonomyId=144" >www.computerworld.com/s/article/&middot;&middot;&middot;myId=144</A><br><br>This is no different than the subscriber of an ISP distributing copyrighted material, a DMCA notice is supplied to the ISP (who owns the IP), and the ISP takes no action.  Given that there are now cases to establish precedence, there is no way in hell an ISP is going to simply ignore DMCA complaints.   ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:20:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26063447</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : You ignored your own link.<br>I will cut out the good part.<br><b><br> <BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL>said by yourlink :</SMALL><HR>A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider&#146;s transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></b><br><br>A public ISP is 100% not liable for any copyrighted material. The clause you are speaking about to forward letters is not needed as they are already 100% protected from being liable as stated in your link.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 08:59:05 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062950</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>What you linked to definately does not apply to public ISPs as they do not host any content and they lease an IP address to the customer.</p></div>This becomes murky if the content is being served from an ISP where the ISP isn't a purely transit network (like a backbone IP provider).   There have been cases filed against hosting providers in the past, including dedicated server providers who simply lease out a server and a block of IP space for an end-user.   They have little control over how people use the server, but legal action has still been pursued for a couple providers who were defiant in handling DMCA complaints.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>Your own link states "the federal Communications Decency Act (CDA) still protects the ISP from liability for content provided by third parties"</p></div>Yes, that was an argument that came up in one of the court cases I just mentioned.  <br><br>Again, this comes down to a really simply cost analysis:<br><br>$$ - setup a department to mail out notifications that gets you complete immunity from prosecution under the safe harbor provisions.<br><br>$$$$$ - the cost to proceed with even a single legal case to defend their position in a DMCA violation that prosecutors choose to pursue. (that the ISP would likely win anyway, due to the provisions you outlined above)<br><br>It's setup that you would have to be completely stupid to not position your company to have safe harbor protection.   It would be akin to operating a business without liability insurance.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 01:29:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062915</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : Your linked information seems more to apply to sites or data hosted by an ISP.<br>What you linked to definately does not apply to public ISPs as they do not host any content and they lease an IP address to the customer.<br><br>If they tried to argue that the offending IP address goes through their network than any backbone or network the data traverses would also be responsible, which makes no sense. Then as I said before anyone that has any illegal activity over their network like phone companies would also be liable.<br><br>Your own link states "the federal Communications Decency Act (CDA) still protects the ISP from liability for content provided by third parties"<br><br> <BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL>said by your link :</SMALL><HR>§ 512. Limitations on liability relating to material online<br><br>(a) Transitory Digital Network Communications.&#151; A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the provider&#146;s transmitting, routing, or providing connections for, material through a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, or by reason of the intermediate and transient storage of that material in the course of such transmitting, routing, or providing connections<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><br>Section (j) relates to if they have a court order for the ISP.<br><br><b>Sorry, but your own link states what I have said. Public ISPs are not liable in any way for customers traffic on their network.</b> They do not need to forward any letters as they have no liablity.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 01:12:21 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062891</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : Read the bill.<br><br>There is a reason they pushed through the <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act>Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act</a> that sets up provisions for Online Service Providers to have provisional safe harbor status if they adhere to certain criteria in dealing with DMCA violations.<br><br>They're not mailing out letters just because they wanted to spend money sucking up to copyright holders -- they're spending the money because they want safe harbor status to be exempt from prosecution for the actions of their subscribers.<br><br>The cost of setting up a department to deal with mailing notices and getting a "get out of jail free" card is far lower than the costs would be of taking a case to court for non-compliance.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 00:57:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062839</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/373609" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=373609');">espaeth</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>Customer's are not paying for ISPs to record the IP address we use, we are not paying them to use people to foward letters, we are not paying them to implement hearsay sanctions.</p></div>&raquo;<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act" >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Mi&middot;&middot;&middot;ight_Act</A><br><br>ISPs lose their protection from prosecution for dissemination of copyright material if they don't actively participate in passing on notices from the copyright holders.<br> </p></div>An ISP don't need any protection. That line is an excuse that has no backing.<br>An ISP that provides internet service to the public and is not a private network. A business would be responsible for what goes on their private network.  A public ISP like comcast, ATT, verizon, etc are not responsible for anything that customers do on the internet no more than ATT is responsible if someone commits a crime over the telephone or a cell phone.<br>If there was any way an ISP could be sued then all phone providers would also be sued anytime something illegal happened over a phone call.  Really, that is a fake excuse and they wrote that into the law knowing that.<br><br>The major grey area that may get protection from that line would be schools like a major university with dorms.  They are not really a public ISP, but can be considered a private network. Public ISPs do not need to worry.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 00:28:51 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062714</link>
<description><![CDATA[espaeth posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/515934" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=515934');">r81984</a>:</said><p>Customer's are not paying for ISPs to record the IP address we use, we are not paying them to use people to foward letters, we are not paying them to implement hearsay sanctions.</p></div>&raquo;<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act" >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Mi&middot;&middot;&middot;ight_Act</A><br><br>ISPs lose their protection from prosecution for dissemination of copyright material if they don't actively participate in passing on notices from the copyright holders.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062714</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 23:41:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062011</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/939879" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=939879');">openbox9</a>:</said><p>So basically, you have no idea what you're actually paying your ISP for. You may not <b>want</b> to pay for those things, but in reality you are.<br> </p></div>What I pay for and what I get are two different things as I have no choice or providers. My ISP can do whatever it wants to regardless of what I am paying for.<br>If I had a choice I could leave them for a company that only gives me what I want to pay for.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26062011</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:22:17 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061946</link>
<description><![CDATA[EUS posted : Not yet.<br>It won't be long before another below the line expense pops up, whether you're involved with copyright infringement or not.<br><small>--<br><b><A HREF="http://www.tdprojecthope.com/"> ~ Project Hope ~ </a></b> ..-. ..- -.-. -.- / .... .- .-. .--. . .-.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061946</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:09:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061941</link>
<description><![CDATA[EUS posted : Shame as it's none of their business.<br>Another system of policing is the last thing I want, or require, or want my monthly bill go up for 'anti-theft charge'.<br><small>--<br><b><A HREF="http://www.tdprojecthope.com/"> ~ Project Hope ~ </a></b> ..-. ..- -.-. -.- / .... .- .-. .--. . .-.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061941</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 20:08:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061533</link>
<description><![CDATA[openbox9 posted : So basically, you have no idea what you're actually paying your ISP for. You may not <b>want</b> to pay for those things, but in reality you are.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061533</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:02:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061346</link>
<description><![CDATA[Gbcue posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/887660" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=887660');">hottboiinnc</a>:</said><p>Maybe they should just refuse to service you with one notice? Sounds fair to me.</p></div>What would the ISP shareholders think when the company they invested in knowingly disconnects a profit stream?<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.gbcue.com/">My Blog 2.2</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061346</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:10:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061331</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/939879" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=939879');">openbox9</a>:</said><p>Shame on them for extending multiple warnings for alleged infringing actions and in the end maybe doing nothing much at all about it? The horror..... You should be much more concerned with your acknowledgment of infringing actions after the third and fourth warning that the copyright holders will most likely use against you in legal action.<br> </p></div>Customer's are not paying for ISPs to record the IP address we use, we are not paying them to use people to foward letters, we are not paying them to implement hearsay sanctions.<br><br>ISPs need to stick to what the customers are paying for.<br>If only they were not monopolies.<br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061331</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:04:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061323</link>
<description><![CDATA[r81984 posted : <b>Customer are not paying for this!!!!</b><br><small>--<br>...brought to you by Carl's Jr.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061323</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:02:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061213</link>
<description><![CDATA[FandBal posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/887660" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=887660');">hottboiinnc</a>:</said><p>Maybe they should just refuse to service you with one notice? Sounds fair to me.<br> </p></div>Yes. Chances are his malicious kids are up to no good if he stoped infringing and STILL got notices. They shouldn't discriminate and just disconnect the whole family at that point.<br>They deserve it for their criminal activities.<br>It's not like they use the internet for any other useful activities anyway (like real education, we got schools for that) Besides, the MPAA and RIAA will educate them far more than a wikipedia ever will, at least in matters of copyright.<br><br>I mean, it'd just be like a time machine. Who didn't like the 80's?<br>I liked them a lot. Back then Copyright was broken in a much smaller scale, this law will  bring the 80's back, it's a win for the MPAA, RIAA and fans of the 80's. A win/win as they say.<br><br>We would really just be much better off if ISP's handed over control of who is worthy enough to use the internet and who isn't.<br>I'd trust someone like that to make very good judgements on who deserves the service and who doesn't.<br><br>And before people get all defensive on me. You have to remmember, the sole reason people use the internet is to watch videos and music, nothing more.<br>It has no educational value, and sharing files with people isn't all that important, so the top 200 sites should be enough for people like that. (everyone, except those pirates of course)<br><br>Or better yet... they should just go ahead and just allow only the top 200 sites for EVERYONE. that way there would be no risk what so ever of copyright being infringed on.<br>What do you guys think?<br><br>And if they still managed somehow to download a pirated picture, book, moving picture or sound. well, they could still go ahead and just disconect them altogether like planned.<br><br>As i said... the internet is not an important tool outside of watching movies and listening to music, so it wouldn't be too much of a loss to those pirates, i'd say it would be letting them off the hook easy if you ask me.<br>I can think of much better ways of dealing with them, but i won't get into that right now.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061213</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:26:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061180</link>
<description><![CDATA[thedragonmas posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/887660" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=887660');">hottboiinnc</a>:</said><p>ISPs don't check to see what was downloaded only because we'd have people on here claiming its in violation of their rights and the Network owners have no right to be able to do that. So you can't have your cake and eat it to. <br><br>Maybe they should just refuse to service you with one notice? Sounds fair to me.<br> </p></div>i never said to verify the CONTENT, but if the MPAA says i suposadly downloaded a freakin movie on X day, but i used all of 1GB the ENTIRE week. its obvious there full of it. and the DMCA is eronious. so i should be punished for their lack of verification? i dont think so.<br><br>for the record, i do not do illegal file sharing. (i DO use bittorrent for LEGAL content, i.e. linux distro's once or twice every few months)<br><br>as to that one notice remark, fine by me, if they pay each person falsely accused say $10k for the slander/liable aspects of falsely accusing them of a crime alone.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26061180</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:15:42 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060779</link>
<description><![CDATA[hottboiinnc posted : ISPs don't check to see what was downloaded only because we'd have people on here claiming its in violation of their rights and the Network owners have no right to be able to do that. So you can't have your cake and eat it to. <br><br>Maybe they should just refuse to service you with one notice? Sounds fair to me.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060779</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:34:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060764</link>
<description><![CDATA[thedragonmas posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/787085" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=787085');">firephoto</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/887660" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=887660');">hottboiinnc</a>:</said><p>very true.  If you get three and four notices; you are in deed knowingly doing illegal activities online. <br> </p></div>Right because the letter I could just send to your ISP concerning your activity associated with my copyrighted work is totally legit.<br> </p></div>and because the ISP's check to make sure the so called "movie" was actually downloaded. i.e. 4GB "movie" but user only used 400MB's that day.<br><br>because we know their record of never ever ever making an error is so high right?  :uhh:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060764</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:31:41 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060763</link>
<description><![CDATA[hottboiinnc posted : once notice maybe....3 and 4?? com'on.  there is NO way 3 and 4 notices are going to be fake.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060763</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:31:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060726</link>
<description><![CDATA[firephoto posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/887660" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=887660');">hottboiinnc</a>:</said><p>very true.  If you get three and four notices; you are in deed knowingly doing illegal activities online. <br> </p></div>Right because the letter I could just send to your ISP concerning your activity associated with my copyrighted work is totally legit.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22672300-Re-pandora">Say no to JAMS!</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060726</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:24:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060664</link>
<description><![CDATA[hottboiinnc posted : very true.  If you get three and four notices; you are in deed knowingly doing illegal activities online. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060664</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:10:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060645</link>
<description><![CDATA[openbox9 posted : Shame on them for extending multiple warnings for alleged infringing actions and in the end maybe doing nothing much at all about it? The horror..... You should be much more concerned with your acknowledgment of infringing actions after the third and fourth warning that the copyright holders will most likely use against you in legal action.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:06:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Shame on the ISP&#x27;s</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060447</link>
<description><![CDATA[EUS posted : Who are on board with this.<br>On the flip side, they have an extra 'cost' to create yet another revenue stream.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Shame-on-the-ISPs-26060447</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 13:17:16 EDT</pubDate>
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