dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
879
share rss forum feed

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Dear Netflix

Dear Netflix,

I eagerly await the time you become your own ISP because you will have my money immediately and then some TRUE competition will exist in this market.

(I know this is "pie in the sky" but I can dream.)
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom

1 recommendation

Re: Dear Netflix

said by axiomatic:

Dear Netflix,

I eagerly await the time you become your own ISP because you will have my money immediately and then some TRUE competition will exist in this market.

And the reason this isn't happening is that it would be completely unaffordable for Netflix to do that. They don't have billions of dollars to drop on building out their own infrastructure. But, somehow, magically, the current ISPs are supposed to do it for free, just for Netflix. Because the ISPs are greedy or anticompetitive or something.

The logic Netflix has is completely flawed. "If it's so cheap why don't you do it yourself?" is exactly the correct comeback. And, they never will, because they are spouting crap about the costs. You just, perhaps unintentionally, exposed their bluster for what it is.

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

1 recommendation

Re: Dear Netflix

Except the ISP's aren't doing it for free. My subscription to my ISP pays for these costs as well as Netflix's bill for their connection to the internet. If what you say is true then the major ISP are just incompetent at pricing the internet connections they've sold? (Which of course they aren't and are priced to the high end compared to other countries.)

Nice try but the large ISP's are trying to double dip as well as protect their own video services no matter how you look at it.

Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL

Re: Dear Netflix

+1
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
said by axiomatic:

Except the ISP's aren't doing it for free. My subscription to my ISP pays for these costs as well as Netflix's bill for their connection to the internet.

I think it's quite a bit more complicated than that. The ISP gets paid by the consumer, true, but they also get paid transit fees in many cases, or they cut a peering deal at no cost to either side if they can negotiate that.

Now, things change, and a massive influx of Netflix traffic shows up. The ISP has to consider lots of stuff. Like, are my current peering/transit agreements still reasonable from a business point of view given this big change in traffic? Am I disadvantaging the video side of my business by allowing things to stay the way they are? What does the consumption curve of my Internet consumers look like, and am I being fair over time to the median user by what looks to me like subsidizing the extremely heavy user with unlimited plans?

These are all reasonable business questions and you don't have to invoke corporate greed or monopolistic behavior or conspiracy theories to explain the moves the ISPs have made.

Hey, I am a consumer, I have no stake in this game between the ISPs, Netflix, Apple/Google/Amazon (who BTW I think are REALLY the players in this game, not Netflix who is a one trick pony). I'm just observing and trying to make sense out of it, without jumping on one end of the teeter totter or the other. I think that if I actually understand what's really going on in the business, I will be able to make more informed consumer decisions.

secret

@wenet.com
said by axiomatic:

Nice try but the large ISP's are trying to double dip as well as protect their own video services no matter how you look at it.

im high up in a certain company and most of our meetings involve plans on making more money.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom

Re: Dear Netflix

said by secret :

said by axiomatic:

Nice try but the large ISP's are trying to double dip as well as protect their own video services no matter how you look at it.

im high up in a certain company and most of our meetings involve plans on making more money.

As opposed to what? Party planning? This supposed to be some kind of amazing revelation?

HappyAnarchy

@iauq.com
We have invested at least as much in the major ISPs networks as they have, through taxes, easements, access to utility poles and other public property, tax breaks, etc etc etc.

Trying to pretend they did everything themselves is just a joke.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom

Re: Dear Netflix

said by HappyAnarchy :

We have invested at least as much in the major ISPs networks as they have, through taxes, easements, access to utility poles and other public property, tax breaks, etc etc etc.

Trying to pretend they did everything themselves is just a joke.

I never said they did everything themselves. But of your examples, it's my understanding that the service providers pay for easements and access to utility poles, etc, when that is granted to them. And if a government entity wants to give them some breaks, that is their decision as elected representatives of you.

And, I rather doubt that "we have invested at least as much as the major ISPs".
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
That is some answer: monopoly exists therefore it should exist unless a bigger monopoly can be formed? Yeah, Netflix is a movie rental company, and isn't likely to become an ISP, just like they aren't likely to become a nuclear power plant operator or lumber mill if they aren't happy with those vendors. But they can certainly muster citizen pressure, enough that shareholders of Comcast/NBC might become a little less concerned with becoming multi-millionaires while sitting on their asses and more concerned with not losing money when the company is busted apart.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom

Re: Dear Netflix

said by Wilsdom:

That is some answer: monopoly exists therefore it should exist unless a bigger monopoly can be formed? Yeah, Netflix is a movie rental company, and isn't likely to become an ISP, just like they aren't likely to become a nuclear power plant operator or lumber mill if they aren't happy with those vendors. But they can certainly muster citizen pressure, enough that shareholders of Comcast/NBC might become a little less concerned with becoming multi-millionaires while sitting on their asses and more concerned with not losing money when the company is busted apart.

That's a nice dream, that somehow ISPs will fall under anti-trust law and be busted up, but it is very very far from reality. They are not monopolies, or even close to that, by any current anti-trust law definition.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
will NEVER happen. You do realize that Comcast/NBC owns a movie studio right? All they have to do is drop the ball on NF and they lose the right to rent those movies. Talk about something that would hurt NF instantly right? Especially if people failed to return those movies?! NF telling and pressuring the last mile operators on anything is death to them.

And if it wasn't for X shareholders you wouldn't be using the Internet currently or even using a computer.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
last I checked everyone with internet service has to somehow pay for it one way or another. As such the buildouts are being paid for.

the ISPs have to remember that services like Netflix are why people desire their higher than basic tier.

gamers and video watchers are the only real reason for higher tiers of speed to even exist at the non business class service levels.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by axiomatic:

Dear Netflix,

I eagerly await the time you become your own ISP because you will have my money immediately and then some TRUE competition will exist in this market.

(I know this is "pie in the sky" but I can dream.)

They can't do that because they'll have to cap just like other ISPs.

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Re: Dear Netflix

Where again is this proof of a need for a cap? I await los links.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Dear Netflix

said by axiomatic:

Where again is this proof of a need for a cap? I await los links.

The proof is the bandwidth charges that they and Level 3 are trying to get ISPs to eat to deliver their service.

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Re: Dear Netflix

So then it seems that you agree that the major ISP are inept at pricing their connections they sell at both the consumer and commercial level.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by fifty nine:

said by axiomatic:

Where again is this proof of a need for a cap? I await los links.

The proof is the bandwidth charges that they and Level 3 are trying to get ISPs to eat to deliver their service.

WRONG.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom

Re: Dear Netflix

said by 88615298:

WRONG.

No, RIGHT.

Gee that was an easy argument to win.
sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

said by fifty nine See Profile
The proof is the bandwidth charges that they and Level 3 are trying to get ISPs to eat to deliver their service.

Is 59 your IQ? Because after making a statement like that, I would think it would be so.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Dear Netflix

said by sandman_1:

said by fifty nine See Profile
The proof is the bandwidth charges that they and Level 3 are trying to get ISPs to eat to deliver their service.

Is 59 your IQ? Because after making a statement like that, I would think it would be so.

The irony is that you don't have an actual counter argument yet you're the one calling me dumb.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by fifty nine:

said by axiomatic:

Where again is this proof of a need for a cap? I await los links.

The proof is the bandwidth charges that they and Level 3 are trying to get ISPs to eat to deliver their service.

You actually have no evidence of this. In reality bandwidth is so cheap that in an urban area it costs about 50 cents per megabit: »dslprime.com/dslprime/42-d/4482-···andwidth

That's uncontested. ISPs like AT&T and Verizon, which own all the lines, could offer uncontested DSL service without breaking a sweat. That's how cheap it is for them. The idea of a cap on DSL service is beyond laughable. It boggles the mind how the FCC could let this happen.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Dear Netflix

Actual costs do not matter.

A pair of basketball shoes or a smartphone costs much less to manufacture than its retail price. What something costs a company isn't and shouldn't be the sole basis for its pricing.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
said by sonicmerlin:

You actually have no evidence of this. In reality bandwidth is so cheap that in an urban area it costs about 50 cents per megabit: »dslprime.com/dslprime/42-d/4482-···andwidth

As I've pointed out many times in these threads, this kind of analysis is wrong-headed for several reasons.

1) marginal cost of bandwidth does not equal cost of providing a service.
2) Cost of providing a service is not the only factor in pricing a service.
3) Pricing of services only falls under regulation if anti-trust or managed monopoly service is in play, which it is not, therefore the public or government has no say in how services are priced or offered. You get to vote with your dollars, not with your government representatives. The implicit assumption in these "it's cheap for the ISP" analyses is exactly the opposite: that prices and terms SHOULD be regulated or legislated.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
blogs are NOT proof of anything.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
Correction. They'd have to cap everything but their own service.
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH
said by fifty nine:

said by axiomatic:

Dear Netflix,

I eagerly await the time you become your own ISP because you will have my money immediately and then some TRUE competition will exist in this market.

(I know this is "pie in the sky" but I can dream.)

They can't do that because they'll have want to cap just like other ISPs.


axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Re: Dear Netflix

Now this is very likely the truth. The temptation to cap and charge overages by the average American middle/upper manger at an ISP is too great to resist.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by axiomatic:

Dear Netflix,

I eagerly await the time you become your own ISP because you will have my money immediately and then some TRUE competition will exist in this market.

NOT when you don't own the content!
--
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.