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chachazz
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:9
Reviews:
·TELUS

1 recommendation

the new Yahoo! reads! your! emails!

Yahoo! reads! your! emails!
...And it's your job to warn all your mates

By John Oates • 11th July 2011 11:05 GMT

Apparently the 'new' Yahoo Mail rolling out now will be reading email for marketing purposes.

"Yahoo! suggests it is the users' job to warn anyone who emails them that their messages will also be scanned."

Article: The Register



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable

2 recommendations

said by chachazz:

...And it's your job to warn all your mates
By John Oates • 11th July 2011 11:05 GMT
"Yahoo! suggests it is the users' job to warn anyone who emails them that their messages will also be scanned."

It would be simple enough for Yahoo! if it were really concerned about a fair warning policy to auto reply to any mail it's servers receive with the message
"The email you just sent to foo@yahoo.com has not been delivered. It's being held until you agree that Yahoo! has the right to scan the email contents for marketing purposes.
Click here if you agree:
I'll click on anything
"If you disagree, do nothing, we'll scan it anyway for marketing purposes, then discard it."


nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 recommendation

reply to chachazz

said by chachazz:

Apparently the 'new' Yahoo Mail rolling out now will be reading email for marketing purposes.

Maybe it is time to start encrypting all email.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 11.4; firefox 4.0

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to chachazz

Geez...now I have to inform several persons that I will no longer communicate with them unless they use an email address other than Yahoo.

Between Yahoo mail and Google mail, no wonder I hardly use email these days except for newsletters, website registrations, and list servs and the rare merchant I purchase from online.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Time Warner Cable

1 recommendation

reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

said by chachazz:

Apparently the 'new' Yahoo Mail rolling out now will be reading email for marketing purposes.

Maybe it is time to start encrypting all email.

Yes, any mail sent, even from domain acct to domain acct should have privacy protection in place if the contents are sensitive in any way, shape or form.
But yeah, maybe it's time to move to the standard you suggest for all mail in light of this.


ahulett
Premium,VIP
join:2003-02-02
Kirkland, WA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to chachazz

I'm not advocating for or fighting against this practice, and I know the majority here know this, but just for the sake of mentioning it...

The whole nature of email is that, unless you invoke encryption in the message, it's clear text. And switching away from Yahoo or GMail will, yes, keep them from scanning your email if you don't want them doing this. But it doesn't make the potential for this behavior disappear. Yahoo and Google are being kind enough to tell you that they're doing this. John Doe server that's listed in your mail headers could do whatever to your clear text email while transferring your message from Server A to Server B, and you'd have no idea.

Either encrypt your message and know it'll stay that way between you and the sender/receiver, or send it clear text and assume it's wide open for anyone to see/store/catalog/parse/EDIT/whatever. The email provider, in either case, is irrelevant.

//A

The views and opinions expressed in this post are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft. Microsoft is a registered trademark or trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Wait a minute! The real problem is that there is NO EASY TO USE free encryption software that COMPUTER DUMMIES can use. That is the problem. For a very long time now, I have stopped using email with computer dummies. Even I don't like the cumbersomeness of encrypting emails. Plus, the receipient must agree to install the encryption software and keys must be exchanged, etc. A lot of hassle. So, I simply don't use email anymore except for innocuous things.

The email provider is NOT irrelevant. That is where the encryption should be since Microsoft has never stepped up to the plate on this issue. But, of course, Microsoft wants in on the harvesting that Google has been doing. I strongly believe that email should have remained a part of Windows (not some cloud junk you install later) and should have shipped long ago (with XP) with encryption provided in Outlook Express. Email should ALWAYS have been private.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



GMXuser

@rr.com
reply to chachazz

said by chachazz:

Yahoo! reads! your! emails!
...And it's your job to warn all your mates

I've been using GMX. Excellent web mail!

»www.gmx.com/
quote:
Your privacy is guaranteed with our superior SSL encryption system.

We will never scan your emails for advertising purposes.

Unlimited email storage


dandelion
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-29
Germantown, TN
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

GMX privacy policy is nothing to jump up and down about IMO »www.gmx.com/privacy.html;jsessio···ms-us011

I have always assumed anything online is likely to be public at some point or another so still use Gmail. Landline, snail mail, encryption IF someone at the other end can unencrypt are all safer to some extent.



red2

@fastwebnet.it
reply to ahulett

said by ahulett:

Yahoo and Google are being kind enough to tell you that they're doing this.

Yahoo and Google aren't being "kind" about anything. When you put curtains on your windows, you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. When you make a phone call over a landline, you also expect that except for those within earshot, nobody is listening to the content of your phone calls for their marketing purposes.

I forsee in the not to distant future you'll call your friend or email your brother to say that you were involved in a car accident to suddenly get flooded by a batch of "kind" emails from law firms telling you that there's good money to be made on misfortune. And if you end up in the sights of News Corporation, you'll probably end up with someone trying to bribe a Yahoo or Google employee to get at your emails?

Sure, they'll be ways to protect yourself, but the point is that not only is there no expectation of privacy, now you can rest assured that someone is trying to figure out a way to get inside your head any way that they can. And that's just insidious, not kind.


HA Nut
Premium
join:2004-05-13
USA

1 recommendation

reply to chachazz

Great discussion! I agree with Aaron. Email is not private and never has been. So in this particular instance, I could care less if Yahoo reads anything I send/receive. If I have something I need privacy with, I don't email it!

But I also agree with Mele20 that is should never have started this way and it would be nice to see it fixed. But until something comes along that's free and easy, it will never happen. Especially with the marketing folks in the mix now!

FWIW... We switched to corporate GMail @ work and it has been the best thing that happened (email-wise) ever for my employer. I have ran into some that say "I would never keep my email offsite because my data is MY data." I then remind them of what we have been discussing that email has never been solely their data and probably won't for the foreseeable future...



Sparrow
Crystal Sky
Premium
join:2002-12-03
Sachakhand
reply to chachazz

This simplest solution to this "new and improved" Yahell move, is not to upgrade to the "new" mail format. There is the option to remain with the classic version.

I opted out of the previous upgrade and will opt out of this one as well.



Drunkula
Premium
join:2000-06-12
Denton, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to chachazz

I do use Yahoo email but not often. I only keep it around for so long because I have had it for so long (well over 10 years). It'd be unreasonable for me to ask anybody sending me email there to setup and use encryption. Many of them are automated anyhow so I doubt it'd make a difference.

It may be time for me to reconsider keeping it.
--
There are 10 types of people that understand binary numbers. Those that do - and those that do not...



nwrickert
sand groper
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join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to red2

said by red2 :

I forsee in the not to distant future you'll call your friend or email your brother to say that you were involved in a car accident to suddenly get flooded by a batch of "kind" emails from law firms telling you that there's good money to be made on misfortune.

That probably happens already. When you report an accident, that report is probably a discoverable public document.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 11.4; firefox 4.0


GMXuser

@rr.com
reply to dandelion

said by dandelion:

GMX privacy policy is nothing to jump up and down about IMO »www.gmx.com/privacy.html;jsessio···ms-us011

No webmail service is 'perfect'. Some are much worse than others. GMX is 'not as intrusive' as others.

It's all relative.

said by dandelion:

I have always assumed anything online is likely to be public at some point or another so still use Gmail.

GMail Privacy:

Google automatically scans e-mails to add context-sensitive advertisements to them. Privacy advocates raised concerns that the plan involved scanning their personal, assumed private, e-mails, and that this was a security problem. Allowing e-mail content to be read, even by a computer, raises the risk that the expectation of privacy in e-mail will be reduced.

Furthermore, e-mail that non-subscribers choose to send to Gmail accounts is scanned by Gmail as well, even though those senders never agreed to Gmail's terms of service or privacy policy.

Google can change its privacy policy unilaterally and Google is technically able to cross-reference cookies across its information-rich product line to make dossiers on individuals.

Privacy advocates also regard the lack of disclosed data retention and correlation policies as problematic. Google has the ability to combine information contained in a person's e-mail messages with information from Internet searches. Google has not confirmed how long such information is kept or how it can be used. One of the concerns is that it could be of interest to law enforcement agencies. More than 30 privacy and civil liberties organizations have urged Google to suspend Gmail service until these issues are resolved.

Gmail's privacy policy used to contain the clause: "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our offline backup systems". However, this statement does not appear in Gmail's current privacy policy.
Choose your own poison.
Expand your moderator at work


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12
reply to Mele20

 

Yahoo is getting worse and worse!!!!

I also have an email account on YAHOO JAPAN and they are not going to goto this new crap i dont think.... They are a seperate company.. (They still have the ORIGINAL CLASSIC FROM MANY YEARS AGO AND I HOPE THEY DONT RUIN IT!!!!)

That new yahoo sucks!!!!! (As much as gmail does)



DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Martinsburg, WV

2 recommendations

reply to chachazz

Re: the new Yahoo! reads! your! emails!

I've always considered email to have the same security as a postcard, and I haven't been disappointed.
--
The Progressive's social model is as obsolete as slavery.



red2

@fastwebnet.it
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

said by red2 :

I forsee in the not to distant future you'll call your friend or email your brother to say that you were involved in a car accident to suddenly get flooded by a batch of "kind" emails from law firms telling you that there's good money to be made on misfortune.

That probably happens already. When you report an accident, that report is probably a discoverable public document.

That is very true. But there is one big difference.

If a company wants to go digging in public records, go to it. (As long as those records are not put online by the Hall of Records as being in the public's interest.)

In this case, we have what amounts to a utility, like a phone company, saying that we will monitor your calls and we even record them, for our marketing purposes. So if we decide that there is money to be made selling them to sleaze #1, we'll do it. And if sleaze #2 offers us more money, we might give it to them too.

Now before you state that yahoo mail is free. That's true and it isn't. Like TV, most of these services are add supported. So if you have to suffer the advertising, then why should you also have to suffer having your emails sold to the highest bidder.

This is no longer that you should just "consider what you say in an email because it isn't private", this is a company telling you upfront, we're going to use the contents of your emails for our marketing purposes. In the first case, the issue is that someone "might" read it. In the second case, it is that someone IS going to read, IS going to scan it for posterity, and is probably going to sell it.


JMac001
Premium
join:2006-05-20
Ridley Park, PA
reply to Sparrow

No, there is no option to continue using the previous service. Here is what Yahoo says about this in their email help section:

"We have removed the "Return to Original Mail" link from the help menu as we're strongly encouraging all users to migrate to the newest version of Yahoo! Mail. We will continue to invest heavily in the latest version of Yahoo! Mail, further improving it and delivering more compelling features to our users.

We know that changing to a new interface can seem daunting, so weve done everything possible to make the transition easy. We have created help pages specifically for users who have recently switched to the newest version of Yahoo! Mail, highlighting differences that you may notice: »help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/y···grating/.

We hope youll give this new version a try. Its our fastest version of Yahoo! Mail yet, with improved protection against spam and advanced features like in-line photos and videos."

Here's the link: »help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/y···tch.html

Apparently they did have this option and removed it - too many opting out.

Jim
--
J-Mac



Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock

1 recommendation

That option might have been removed, but for those of us still using the classic version we aren't being forced to upgrade. I use Yahoo mail and have done so for a very long time. If they ever force me to "upgrade" I will have to rethink using them for email. I guess ad revenue wasn't enough so now they are doing this. It's sad and pathetic what free email has become now, but I guess they have to make money somehow in order to offer this service for free.
--
An expert is a man who tells you a simple thing in a confused way in such a fashion as to make you think the confusion is your own fault.



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12
reply to chachazz

 

I think the bottom line is THIS IS MORE THAN JUST AD REVENUE!!

This is secretly spying on people's email!! (Although they wont come out and say this)

Would using the mobile version be subject to this spying crap??

»m.yahoo.com/mail

I have 2 accounts and luckily both are on the older one....


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to red2

Re: the new Yahoo! reads! your! emails!

said by red2 :

This is no longer that you should just "consider what you say in an email because it isn't private", this is a company telling you upfront, we're going to use the contents of your emails for our marketing purposes. In the first case, the issue is that someone "might" read it. In the second case, it is that someone IS going to read, IS going to scan it for posterity, and is probably going to sell it.

That's a very good point.

It's one thing to admit that they don't protect your communications from eyedroppers. And there is completely another thing, that they tell now - we start perlustrate and sell the collected data from your communications to anyone, who wants to pay for it
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

ElJay

join:2004-03-17
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to chachazz

I'm OK with Yahoo parsing my emails to serve up more relevant ads. I don't think they're talking about bundling up the text of every email and shipping it off to their advertising partners. If they want to show me ads for rental cars based on the fact that I've got a confirmation email for a flight, I don't see a big problem in that. They're already tracking my browsing history, and sometimes it leads to some incredibly well-targeted ads. I prefer seeing targeted, useful ads.

I do hope the latest "new Yahoo mail" is better than the previous version. I switched over to it briefly a few years ago and it was total garbage. I am not going to switch until forced to do so, and if it's still too ridiculous, I'll finally migrate over to Gmail.

Expand your moderator at work


JMac001
Premium
join:2006-05-20
Ridley Park, PA
reply to Lagz

Re: the new Yahoo! reads! your! emails!

said by Lagz:

That option might have been removed, but for those of us still using the classic version we aren't being forced to upgrade. I use Yahoo mail and have done so for a very long time. If they ever force me to "upgrade" I will have to rethink using them for email. I guess ad revenue wasn't enough so now they are doing this. It's sad and pathetic what free email has become now, but I guess they have to make money somehow in order to offer this service for free.

rawhide,

WHen I opened my Yahoo Mail page today it was already showing the new version, with the usual "We welcome you to the new Yahoo..." stuff. I tried to go back after reading that earlier post here but couldn't find out how. Then I looked at the Help pages and saw that note I posted. IOW they had already "pushed" me to the new version before I got there today. Creeps.

Jim
--
J-Mac