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jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

[Serious] Flag etiquette

No, this is a serious query.

I'll be in the UK probably on the tenth anniversary of 9/11 and I would like to bring a US flag with me for use at the house in Shropshire on that day.

So, not wishing to offend anyone, what's the etiquette or protocol that I should observe? Do I need to fly the UK flag at the same time? Should it be flown higher than the US flag? (Well, that will set off the American patriots. ) If I need to fly both should the UK flag be on a higher pole? (Come to think of it, the US flag would be at half-mast anyway.)

This is sort of important to me, since I lost several friends on that day and the portion of the Pentagon destroyed was where I worked for several years.

And, given the number of Brits that also died, will there be any UK observances on that day?
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



wonko3fc
Verbum sat sapienti

join:2001-06-02
UK

Ah well now that's a good one. I would encourage you (not that I think it will be a problem) to contact your local council with the request. Some local authorities have rules about flying flags and it would be advisable to cover yourself - just to be on the safe side. There is probably a form you need to fill in but minimise the H&S aspects by keeping the entire thing within your boundary's (should it fall into the Highway or injure a passer by) Usually, a letter will suffice for this sort of thing.

On 'event days' Royal weddings, football torunments etc, blind eys are normally turned in that 'everyone' is doing it. However, you may be a little issolated here - hence the suggestion.

Personally, I cannot see anyone objecting and more shame on them if they do!

My own suggestion, otherwise, would be to fly whatever flags you choose, preferably on separate poles, dipping whichever you feel appropriate to reflect the events in question. There is no hierarchy, of heights that I am aware of. I should also like to think that we, in the UK, would also empathise on the day and also fly our flags at half mast too.



Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK
reply to jvmorris

Fly the flag; I honestly can't believe anyone would complain especially considering the date.

IMO both the Union Flag and US flag ought to be flown at half mast so the etiquette of which ought to be flown higher is immaterial.

AFAIK there isn't anything to mark the ten years but I may well be wrong.



jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I will check with the Shropshire Council; must admit I hadn't thought of that.

Pjr, as for flying the Union Flag at half-mast, I wasn't quite clear on the protocol for doing that. Here in the US, you'll see them at full and/or half mast on 9/11, I'm sure. But I wasn't clear about the Union Flag in the UK. The wife kindly directed me to »www.flaginstitute.org/index.php?···#index21 before I got my knickers in a twist. As I read that, unless there is a Proclamation, it's sort of up to us regarding the Union Flag and I guess we'll most likely go with the local flow.

Of course, out here in the Marches, one is more likely to see English and Welsh flags than the Union Flag anyway.
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK

said by »www.flaginstitute.org/index.php?···#index21 :

The above cover Royal and National Mourning, but flags may be flown at half-mast on private or non-Government buildings on other relevant occasions. Flags fly at full-mast on Remembrance Sunday.

Which basically means "do as you please".

There aren't many Union flags round here; it's mainly tattered and torn St George Crosses dating back to the last football World Cup or Lincolnshire flags.


jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

You can always buy new flags for the Rugby World Cup this year.
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



John2g
Qui Tacet Consentit
Premium
join:2001-08-10
England
kudos:1
reply to jvmorris

There is an American who lives at Longnor (just outside Dorrington) who often flies the Stars and Stripes. I would just do it.
--
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.



jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

Thanks, John.

Hmm, looks too flat.
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



Highwayman

@btcentralplus.com
reply to jvmorris

Technically, what you wish to do is illegal without planning permission, only UK and EU flags are exempt. That said no one would mind and you will not cause offense so please do it. If you fly both flags then the Union Jack must either be higher or on its left to the Stars and Stripes, i.e. the opposite of what would happen in the US. Flying both flags on the same pole is permitted but the Union Jack must be on top and that may lose the effect of the half-staff. Note that the rules for half staffing the Stars and Stripes are different to half masting the Union Jack. Again if you fly both then you may half staff the Stars and Stripes but you may not half mast the Union Jack. My advice would be to fly the Stars and Stripes on its own. If you fly the Union Jack please, oh please, fly it the right way up or you may end up with deserved, adverse comment!



jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

I did put in a query to Shropshire Council and am awaiting a reply.

I have to admit that I only recently realized that there was a 'right way up' for the Union Jack. Now, . . . what about the Scottish and English flags?
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



Highwayman

@btcentralplus.com

OK clever clogs, if you know the answer to this you may know more than most Brits. How do you fly the Union Jack end on and why is doing so matched by only a very few other nations?



poacher 1rtd
Premium
join:2004-02-25
oxford UK
reply to jvmorris

Please don't fly the Union flag the wrong way up!

»www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk···ck7.html
--
los valientes no asesinan. Guillermo Prieto (1818-1897)



jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1
reply to jvmorris

Finishing up on this topic, we've heard back from Shropshire Council and no permit is required as long as the flag pole is up for less than ten days. (Please note that this is in Shropshire and we're out in the Shropshire Hills area.) I think the short way of saying this is that no permit is required for a temporary flag pole and a temporary pole is defined as one that's up for ten days or less.

That works fine for us as we're on a rental property anyway and it can be so windy where we are that a permanent flag pole (that had prospects of long-term survival) would be fairly expensive anyway. What we are looking at is a multi-section erectible flag pole that slides into a sleeve pounded into the earth. Basically, we'd use it and then dismantle it until the next occasion we wanted it.

Next issue is how many different flags we're going to want for Rugby World Cup.
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



wonko3fc
Verbum sat sapienti

join:2001-06-02
UK

All sounds eminently sensible. Otherwise can you imagine the planning applications that would need processing by the respective authorities during Festivals, sports matches, games of Cricket - Oh, we seem to be not too bad at that at the moment.
How about the Welsh national flag? That'll be the diagonal red cross then



jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

Don't get me started on planning applications and approvals. Although I live in the free-wheeling state of Virginia, I also live in the planned community of Reston which is, if anything, more draconian in its requirements (and less well organized) than any local council in the UK.

As for the Welsh flag, we fly the Red Dragon, thank you very much!

Now if I could just think of a reason to fly the Cornish standard for the remainder of my ancestors. Hmmm . . . .
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



wonko3fc
Verbum sat sapienti

join:2001-06-02
UK


Cornish Standard


jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

I prefer those fresh, not packaged.
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris



wonko3fc
Verbum sat sapienti

join:2001-06-02
UK


As requested - anything to please


poacher 1rtd
Premium
join:2004-02-25
oxford UK

As we`ve now moved on to cornish pastys I must say the best cornish pasties I`ve ever tasted are in Mexico believe it or not.

Cornishmen first introduced the mountain settlement to the iconic snack in 1824, when they relocated there in the hopes of making their fortune from silver mining. It didn’t take long for the wives of the Mexican miners to catch on to the benefits of the pasty and start making them for their husbands to take down the mines.

Today the Cornish pasty is still very much the food of choice in Real del Monte, with many ‘paste’ takeaways throughout the town. They have even created their own flavors including sausage and beans, and pineapple and tuna.

»www.thecornishpastyman.co.uk/?p=498

The Cornish tradition in Mexico stems from miners who left Falmouth in the early 19th century to mine the silver reserves of the Hidalgo region. They settled in the small town of Real Del Monte, bringing heavy engineering equipment, which enabled silver extraction on a large scale.

Since then, ‘pastes’ have become a local delicacy, although they are often filled with more Mexican flavours such as chilli, beans and ‘tingo’ (shredded chicken), rather than the traditional Cornish filling of minced beef, onions and potatoes.

»www.meatinfo.co.uk/news/fullstor···ies.html
--
los valientes no asesinan. Guillermo Prieto (1818-1897)

Some body once told me to read between the lines, I tried and could only see blank spaces.



jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to jvmorris

Well, the 'temporary' flag pole is up (sort of). The question is, just how 'temporary' is it? Today, we're getting some 'light' winds (light for the Shropshire Hills, that is) and I'm checking to see if it's secure.

And, for testing purposes, I've put up the English flag in honor of England scraping through today in the Rugby World Cup. Tomorrow promises to be a busy day for the other flags, given the matches scheduled.

Off to check tomorrow's weather forecasts.
--
Regards,
Joseph V. Morris