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TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
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1 edit

reply to RARPSL

Re: SIGH

There are specific exceptions, for citizens band (III) and for police/governmental(II). The question here tends to be whether the exception in (i) below applies to Wi-Fi. The question there would be what is "readily accessible to the general public;" He certainly could have misinterpreted whether the law is meant to exempt Wi-Fi under that provision. Still I am not a lawyer and he likely is a lawyer, he did discuss this in the ruling whether his conclusion is correct is up for debate.

said by law :

(g) It shall not be unlawful under this chapter or chapter 121 of this title for any person—
(i) to intercept or access an electronic communication made through an electronic communication system that is configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public;
(ii) to intercept any radio communication which is transmitted—
(I) by any station for the use of the general public, or that relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles, or persons in distress;
(II) by any governmental, law enforcement, civil defense, private land mobile, or public safety communications system, including police and fire, readily accessible to the general public;
(III) by a station operating on an authorized frequency within the bands allocated to the amateur, citizens band, or general mobile radio services; or
(IV) by any marine or aeronautical communications system;

EDIT
As I said I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that eavesdropping on a cell phone is illegal but not a cordless phone since you do not have an expectation of privacy on a cordless. Just my recollection though.

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RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

said by TheWiseGuy:

There are specific exceptions, for citizens band (III) and for police/governmental(II). The question here tends to be whether the exception in (i) below applies to Wi-Fi. The question there would be what is "readily accessible to the general public;" He certainly could have misinterpreted whether the law is meant to exempt Wi-Fi under that provision. Still I am not a lawyer and he likely is a lawyer, he did discuss this in the ruling whether his conclusion is correct is up for debate.

said by law :

(g) It shall not be unlawful under this chapter or chapter 121 of this title for any person—
(i) to intercept or access an electronic communication made through an electronic communication system that is configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public;
(ii) to intercept any radio communication which is transmitted—
(I) by any station for the use of the general public, or that relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles, or persons in distress;
(II) by any governmental, law enforcement, civil defense, private land mobile, or public safety communications system, including police and fire, readily accessible to the general public;
(III) by a station operating on an authorized frequency within the bands allocated to the amateur, citizens band, or general mobile radio services; or
(IV) by any marine or aeronautical communications system;

EDIT
As I said I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that eavesdropping on a cell phone is illegal but not a cordless phone since you do not have an expectation of privacy on a cordless. Just my recollection though.

Since there is apparently a difference between listening into a cell phone and cordless phone conversation (btw: Is there a difference between an analog and digital cell phone call for this purpose? - I seem to remember that analog phones had no privacy expectation) the question is if an open WiFi base station should be treated as a cell phone or cordless phone for privacy expectation purposes. Since the base station is open (no encryption) and sending a SSID Beacon, I would say there was no expectation of privacy (Google was collecting the Beacon Information with the actual data frames as a accidental addition) since the Beacon and SSID is a non-private transmission.

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
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East Stroudsburg, PA
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Sorry I don't know and I don't know if that logic applies.

The fact that they included the specific exceptions for Ham radio and Public/Police radio does seem to back up the Judge that the exceptions in the law were not supposed to apply to ALL Radio Communication since there would be no need to specify those particular exceptions if the writers of the law intended to make an exception for all radio communications that were not encrypted.

Whether simply being unencrypted is enough to make it readily accessible to the public may end up being the question the higher court decides but I can not be sure whether that will be the only question and whether simply being unencrypted makes it Publically Accessible per the law.
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RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

said by TheWiseGuy:

Sorry I don't know and I don't know if that logic applies.

The fact that they included the specific exceptions for Ham radio and Public/Police radio does seem to back up the Judge that the exceptions in the law were not supposed to apply to ALL Radio Communication since there would be no need to specify those particular exceptions if the writers of the law intended to make an exception for all radio communications that were not encrypted.

Whether simply being unencrypted is enough to make it readily accessible to the public may end up being the question the higher court decides but I can not be sure whether that will be the only question and whether simply being unencrypted makes it Publically Accessible per the law.

The passage of the law predates WiFi so Congress not having an exception for it like they had for Ham and Public/Police radio is a strawman excuse. Under normal conditions when a new technology is similar to an older legally defined technology it is treated by the courts as if it was the older technology (at least until the law is revised to explicitly mention the newer technology and either acknowledge it as the same or establish separate rules for it).

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

said by RARPSL:

The passage of the law predates WiFi so Congress not having an exception for it like they had for Ham and Public/Police radio is a strawman excuse.

Pure Nonsense.
Not even close, you obviously did not understand simple logic. Just as the judge specifically said

said by ruling :

The drafting of these provisions predated the spread of wireless internet technologies and, thus, the lack of any explicit reference to wireless internet technologies does not itself preclude an interpretation of “radio communications” that would include these later-developed technologies.

I did not try to use those passages to rule out that Wi-Fi was covered by an exemption.

What I said was those passages would not be necessary if the framers of the bill simply meant to say that ANY and ALL unencrypted Radio Communication was exempt under the bill. I did not conclude that because Wi-Fi was not included in the specific exemptions, it was not exempt, I concluded that the Bill did not simple exempt ALL unencrypted Radio Signals, that to determine whether unencrypted Wi-Fi was exempt it must be examined in the context of all the language in the bill and precedent in the law.

It always amazes me how you misinterpret what is written to fit what you want it to fit. I guess I should not have taken you off ignore.
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Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore.

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