US Telco Support > AT&T > AT&T Northeast > Hi from Canada AT&T !! You are harshing my mellow!

Hi from Canada AT&T !! You are harshing my mellow!

You are complaining about AS7018 (AT&T Services, which owns the 12.0.0.0/8). This forum is a user-to-user self-help forum for customers on AS7132 (AT&T Internet Services, which owns several smaller than /8, larger than /16 blocks, providing residential Internet connections).

You are barking up a wrong tree in the AT&T forest.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Well NormanS, help out your Northern brother, lead me to the promised land. Where would i go complain? (besides my ISP) I'll fry up some Canadian bacon for you if you want to lend some worthwhile advice.

Give me the right tree name!

You can fry all that wonderful Canadian bacon you can get your hands on, but ...

No ATTIS customer is likely to know, or care about, ATTS contacts. ATTIS customers are mostly going to be concerned with issues in the ATTIS network.

Are you, or Shaw, a customer of AT&T Services? If not, ATTS isn't going to talk to either you, or Shaw.

From the looks of your trace route, your destination is the ATTS customer. So you would complain to them (your destination), and ask them to sort out the problems with ATTS.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

reply to Net_Nannie
Alright NormanS, thank you.

I am screwed.

Yo NormanS....

How about I just get you to go down and press a button that will fix all this crap? I forgot to ask. Go press that button dude.

08/04/11 14:02:07 Slow traceroute 206.16.118.173
Trace 206.16.118.173 ...
173.228.18.1    RTT:   4ms TTL:255 (173-228-18-1.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net ok)
70.36.243.21    RTT:   5ms TTL:254 (gig1-6.cr1.lsatca11.sonic.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
69.12.211.5     RTT:   6ms TTL:252 (0.xe-7-1-0.gw.pao1.sonic.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
64.142.0.109    RTT:   6ms TTL:251 (0.xe-6-1-0.gw2.200p-sf.sonic.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
208.106.96.249  RTT:   7ms TTL:250 (as0.gw.200p-sf.sonic.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
4.53.134.9      RTT:   6ms TTL:249 (xe-10-1-0.bar2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net ok)
4.69.140.154    RTT:   6ms TTL: 58 (ae-6-6.ebr2.SanJose1.Level3.net ok)
4.69.153.18     RTT:   6ms TTL: 57 (ae-62-62.csw1.SanJose1.Level3.net ok)
4.69.152.17     RTT:   7ms TTL:246 (ae-1-60.edge2.SanJose3.Level3.net ok)
192.205.32.205  RTT:  10ms TTL:245 (No rDNS)
12.122.86.90    RTT:  29ms TTL:240 (cr1.sffca.ip.att.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
12.122.3.122    RTT:  29ms TTL:241 (cr1.la2ca.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.122.31.190   RTT:  29ms TTL:242 (cr2.phmaz.ip.att.net fraudulent rDNS)
12.123.206.241  RTT:  49ms TTL:242 (No rDNS)
12.122.254.50   RTT:  29ms TTL:242 (12-122-254-50.attens.net bogus rDNS: host not found [authoritative])
63.241.130.210  RTT:  28ms TTL:241 (mdf002c7613r0001-gig-12-1.phx1.attens.net ok)
* * * failed
* * * failed
 

reply to Net_Nannie
Hehe all good muchacho. Now what do I send to Blizz to get them to take notice I wonder? Some sort of proof perhaps.

Hey NormanS, I bet i am the only Canadian you know, well not know, but you know what I mean.

I've got some family up thataway. Paternal linkage around Calgary, Alberta, and maternal linkage around Hopewell, New Brunswick.

As for Bizzard, they are hopeless. Keep pointing their fingers at the other guy; though it is fairly apparent that they aren't buying sufficient capacity from ATTS to handle the traffic generated by the gamers. A number of different customers, from ISPs across the board, have tried. Some even posting in the ATTIS DSL service forums.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

reply to Net_Nannie
Well thanks for the advice NormanS, I am going to use what you said and pawn it off as something I came up with. Going to hog all the credit. Back to the Blizz forums. Take care yankee!

reply to Net_Nannie
TO be honest...there isn't an issue in any of these tracerts. In a tracert, the last hop is the important hop.

As an example, on your 1st tracert, if Hop 12 (800-3000ms) was really having an issue, then all hops after hop 12 would be the same or worse.

Meaning, hops 13-15 would also show that high MS response. But since hop 15 shows 100ish MS, than what happens on hop 1-14 is meaningless.

Another thing, a tracert really isn't the best tool to find latency issues. All routers along a tracert prioritize echo requests (tracerts and pings) as very low priority. You will get alot of false positives from it.

A tracert is good for seeing the pathway and if the MS from one problem hop is the same or higher after each subsequent hop, then you found a problem router.

reply to Net_Nannie
There is four trace routes, all show very high ms ping on ATT. These 4 traces were taken over a 20 min period. Going from a 3100 ms to a 100ms will cause issues.

reply to Net_Nannie
Checking the line below:

8 * 3608 ms 291 ms cr2.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.81.22]

Doesn't the asterix mean "packet loss"?

Checking the following line from the same trace:

15 103 ms 107 ms 106 ms mdf002c7613r0001-gig-12-1.phx1.attens.net [63.241.130.210]
 

reply to Net_Nannie
So you are saying the *3608 ms one doesn't mean shit really ?

I thought the " * " beside it meant packet loss.

reply to Net_Nannie
But

If I am seeing very high ms along the path consistently, around the same routers every time, along with hundreds of others...that has got to mean something NormanS.

Btw (if you are curious at all) got a response from Blizz finally.

I have collected traceroutes that are relevant to the OP's issue of packet loss and latency on the AT&T portion of the route and forwarded them along to be investigated.

Please be aware that a large percentage of the traceroutes and pathpings listed in this thread are *not* showing latency or packet loss on the AT&T network. For those individuals, you'll want to perform some basic latency troubleshooting in hopes of resolving your issue. Initial steps can be found at »us.blizzard.com/support/article.···Id=19823

An example of a relevant traceroute looks like this:

Tracing route to 206.16.118.173 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 174.2.76.1
2 10 ms 8 ms 11 ms rd1ha-ge3-0-1.ss.shawcable.net [64.59.182.226]
3 89 ms 54 ms 19 ms rc2sc-tge0-15-0-0.wp.shawcable.net [66.163.76.18
9]
4 29 ms 36 ms 19 ms rc1nr-tge0-2-1-0.wp.shawcable.net [66.163.73.133
]
5 93 ms 68 ms 40 ms 66.163.78.38
6 40 ms 38 ms 39 ms sl-st31-chi-.sprintlink.net [144.223.3.65]
7 38 ms 49 ms 36 ms 144.232.25.150
8 106 ms 96 ms 115 ms cr2.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.81.22]
9 110 ms 110 ms 110 ms cr2.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.2.22]
10 100 ms 109 ms 100 ms cr2.kc9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.28.89]
11 102 ms 111 ms 98 ms cr1.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.28.85]
12 893 ms 3112 ms * cr1.phmaz.ip.att.net [12.122.28.182]
13 753 ms 135 ms 102 ms 12.123.206.161
14 97 ms 97 ms 101 ms 12-122-254-50.attens.net [12.122.254.50]
15 117 ms 116 ms 108 ms mdf002c7613r0001-gig-12-1.phx1.attens.net [63.24
1.130.210]
16 * * * Request timed out.
Here you can see that the poster's ping times are fairly good up until hop 12 on the AT&T network, where there is a massive spike in latency, accompanied by packet loss (denoted by an asterisk). In addition, this user is correctly running the trace to a play realm.

One that is irrelevant to the OP's post looks like this:

Tracing route to us.battle.net [12.129.242.40]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms dslrouter.westell.com [10.0.0.1]
2 367 ms 434 ms 495 ms fl-71-3-112-1.dyn.embarqhsd.net [71.3.112.1]
3 554 ms 487 ms 540 ms crflftmy02 [71.3.0.97]
4 593 ms 619 ms 646 ms host-237.embarqservices.net [74.5.253.237]
5 570 ms 593 ms 701 ms xe-10-3-0.edge2.Miami1.Level3.net [4.71.210.2

6 345 ms 353 ms 335 ms ae-1-51.edge2.Miami2.Level3.net [4.69.138.77]
7 241 ms 419 ms 420 ms 192.205.36.253
8 677 ms 801 ms 836 ms cr81.fldfl.ip.att.net [12.122.81.26]
9 592 ms 927 ms 805 ms cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net [12.122.1.45]
10 503 ms 364 ms 315 ms cr1.ormfl.ip.att.net [12.122.5.185]
11 771 ms 857 ms 841 ms cr2.hs1tx.ip.att.net [12.122.1.5]
12 754 ms 661 ms 382 ms cr1.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.28.157]
13 222 ms 174 ms 227 ms cr2.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.1.210]
14 149 ms 121 ms 152 ms cr2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.28.178]
15 75 ms 89 ms 294 ms gar4.lsrca.ip.att.net [12.122.104.89]
16 296 ms 290 ms 342 ms 12-122-254-230.attens.net [12.122.254.230]
17 107 ms 111 ms 89 ms mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net [12
9.193.242]
18 12.129.199.254 reports: Destination net unreachable.
This user is experiencing high latency from the moment his packets leave the router. The latency being experienced by this player is clearly not related to anything on the AT&T network. In addition, the target of this traceroute is to our Battle.net website, not a play realm.

If your traceroutes indicate that you are experiencing high latency and packet loss only once your trace reaches the AT&T network, please feel free to add your relevant diagnostic results to this thread, along with the name of your ISP. Please run your traceroute to your main play realm--IP addresses can be found at »www.wowpedia.org/US_realm_list_by_datacenter

If your traceroute does not indicate this specific type of latency, please feel free to start your own thread and post the traceroute in there. There are a multitude of potential causes of latency. You may also begin troubleshooting with the steps listed at »us.blizzard.com/support/article.···Id=19823

reply to Net_Nannie
Its not that hard to grasp. Hop 12 is 3000+ ms. yet hop 13 and on isn't. If hop 12 was really having a latency issue then hop 13 would be 3000ms , hop 14 would be 3000ms and hop 15 would be 3000ms because hop 12 would be delaying the data from those hops as well.

Run a ping to hop 15 IP 63.241.130.210. Unless its over 250ms, then their is no issue.

I am sorry your not a network technician and can't understand how networking works with packets and routing, that's why we are trying to explain to you as best as we can.

If I remember correctly,WoW has an internal ping meter, thats your latency to the server. How does that look? Also the moment you start experiencing lag, run a tracert immediately to the server, get some real time data of the issue happening at that second.

Now lets play the other side. The router your seeing latency on, is a AT&T World net router. These forums only have to do with AT&T ISP. They are 2 separate entities.

If blizzard really cared about the customers, they would contact the people in charge of that network to make sure their isn't an issue. But with 12 million + players, Blizzard weighed the cost of helping you (going the extra mile to call AT&T) versus losing your 15 a month. Your 15/month is losing that battle.

Now if it was affecting alot more players, then the scales would tip over and they would call AT&T to get it fixed.

Blizzard networking team has the information or the means to get the information to contact AT&T and get it fixed if it was causing a major problem to a chunk of its player base.

We are just trying to help you direct your troubleshooting. Another idea is run a continuous ping to hop 15 during a playing session. When you notice latency, check the pinging and see if the ms is getting higher, if it is, have the tracert ready to go and start it.

However if the ping is low during your latency, then it could be on your side. Your PC, your router, wireless interference if your wireless.

Or as the Blizzard support page stated, could be addon causing latency.

I'm gonna be honest with you, if it truly is hop 12 causing the problem, there isn't anything you can do about it =(. Unless you can convince blizzard support to pursue it.

reply to Net_Nannie
The post before yours was what a Blizz rep posted and i was repeating it. I get it, after a hop if it's a bad router it will show on next routers. The thing that is suspect as well, it affects my vent server at the exact same time. Which is a different program involved. My vent server passes through same area.

I talked to the head end tech of my ISP ( we worked together for years until I left that company - Shaw Cable)

He spoke with the NOC and the RAC is going to to create a ticket with the info I provided and it’ll be escalated to the NOC and also IPBB. He sent me back an e-mail stating that IPBB will be taking it on. Shaw will go the extra mile for the customer I must admit.

reply to Net_Nannie
It looks to me, from the traceroutes, like the AT&T portion of the network is congested. Since ICMP traffic has a very low priority, the apparent high latency is a delayed response caused by a congested gateway putting off responding to an echo request until it has a spare millisecond to do so without slowing things down further. That can also cause the appearance of packet loss if the network segment in question is extremely congested [gateway doesn't bother responding to ICMP because it has too much else to do].

The cause of the congestion might well be AT&T's stated reason: Blizzard didn't purchase enough bandwidth. In this case, I'd give AT&T the benefit of the doubt.

Call Blizzard. If enough people complain, maybe they'll decide it's worth it to buy more bandwidth from AT&T or go elsewhere for cheaper bandwidth if possible. The sqeaky wheel gets the oil, but you have to oil it in the right place to get rid of the squeak.