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static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to Sanek

Re: Rogers Upstream Bonding

So, wait, if Rogers increases upload speeds significantly, say to 25/10 or even 25/5, won't that kind of destroy their rationale for throttling the upload on P2P?

I think it's pretty obvious that Rogers isn't going to suddenly volunteer to remove throttling. So how are they going to continue to justify it when the upload speeds are no longer so constrained?
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
They'll increase it to probably double but that leaves it in the same situation it was in with 1 channel.

wysiwyg1972

join:2006-11-05
Toronto, ON
reply to static416
There's more to the internet than just P2P. Faster upload speeds benefit people who upload files to sites like Flikr or all the cloud computing where files need to be in synch. There's also improvements for those who like to RDP to their desktop. I personally benefit from my 7 meg upload (on Fibe 25) for my Slingbox, as anything over 3 mbps provides a clear HD stream. I dumped Rogers because they couldn't offer the 7 meg upload, but would jump back once they did (even at 5 meg). I liked them and usually offer better retention deals compared to Bell where I pay full price!

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
said by wysiwyg1972:

There's more to the internet than just P2P.

Oh I completely agree. I incrementally backup my 350GB photo library to an offsite location using VPN and a filesync program. I also back it up to a cloud service, and both would benefit from faster upload. Watch movies while I travel on my 3G iPad that are streamed on the fly from my home computer. All these would benefit from a better upload.

Thing is bittorrent and P2P are useful for a lot of purposes other than just the obvious (piracy). Wuala lets you get credits for cloud storage in exchange for contributing storage via P2P. Lots of indie music and movies are legitimately distributed via P2P. »sites.google.com/site/sxswtorren ··· torrent/
»vodo.net/

But right now, because P2P is effectively killed on Rogers, they basically preventing a huge portion of the population from taking advantage of the benefits of distributed file sharing. And until P2P is protected on all ISPs, legitimate companies are going to be hesitant to rely on it for their business.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by static416:

said by wysiwyg1972:

There's more to the internet than just P2P.

Oh I completely agree. I incrementally backup my 350GB photo library to an offsite location using VPN and a filesync program. I also back it up to a cloud service, and both would benefit from faster upload. Watch movies while I travel on my 3G iPad that are streamed on the fly from my home computer. All these would benefit from a better upload.

Thing is bittorrent and P2P are useful for a lot of purposes other than just the obvious (piracy). Wuala lets you get credits for cloud storage in exchange for contributing storage via P2P. Lots of indie music and movies are legitimately distributed via P2P. »sites.google.com/site/sxswtorren ··· torrent/
»vodo.net/

But right now, because P2P is effectively killed on Rogers, they basically preventing a huge portion of the population from taking advantage of the benefits of distributed file sharing. And until P2P is protected on all ISPs, legitimate companies are going to be hesitant to rely on it for their business.

I disagree with this just a touch.

Rogers doesn't block P2P. They block specific protocols that happen to implement P2P. Indeed, P2P itself isn't a protocol or technology, just the name we give to protocols and technology that works a certain way.

There are many ways to implement distributed storage / exchange systems that Rogers doesn't block harm with their throttling and there are a lot of commercial entities who rely on P2P tech.

Skype being a major one that I can think of...

That said, Rogers upload speeds are pretty much a joke now. 2Mbps on a 50 (100Mbps bursting connection)? Just laughable. With TekSavvy offering 7Mbps uploads now Rogers has a very, very short amount of time to get my Ultimate connection working faster than 2Mbps upload before i jump ship.


Napalm

@rogers.com
reply to static416
said by static416:

So, wait, if Rogers increases upload speeds significantly, say to 25/10 or even 25/5, won't that kind of destroy their rationale for throttling the upload on P2P?

Well when you're "downloading" something it's not only the download going on but also your computer will continuously send acknowledgements and other traffic management packets upstream to the server it downloads from.

Now if you increase a lot the "downstream" bandwidth without touching the upstream one, you can get the situation where you can't practically attain the max download speed because your computer cannot keep up with sending acknowledgements fast enough.

So you have to increase the "upstream" too to a certain down/up ratio that will allow you to reach the enhanced downstream bandwidth potential.

This has nothing to do with p2p, it's valid for most kinds of traffic.

Nap.


SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Also, Rogers hates P2P I think less for the bandwidth involved but more for the absurdly high number of connections that a Torrent client creates. As I recall DOCSIS CMTS gear pre-3.0 had a lot of trouble with rapid/high volume connection opening/closing.

Also, purely from a peering perspective having more upload traffic is better for Rogers as peering generally involves ratio trading.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to static416
said by static416:

So, wait, if Rogers increases upload speeds significantly, say to 25/10 or even 25/5, won't that kind of destroy their rationale for throttling the upload on P2P?

I think it's pretty obvious that Rogers isn't going to suddenly volunteer to remove throttling. So how are they going to continue to justify it when the upload speeds are no longer so constrained?

No it's about marketing, who has the biggest D*K, Videotron offers 120/20 with a 170/30gb cap. With that cap the speed is useless. But then it makes Robellus come up with something similar.

You know just like they have the "fastest" 4G+ network (even though there is no such thing) in Canada. It's so fast, I end up switching to Wifi at home even though I have a 6gb data plan.
--
All Hail Harper, the Wannabe King of Canada

static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
said by elwoodblues:

No it's about marketing, who has the biggest D*K, Videotron offers 120/20 with a 170/30gb cap. With that cap the speed is useless. But then it makes Robellus come up with something similar.

As far as I understood, the only rationale Rogers had for implementing 24/7 P2P throttling was that the difference between their upload and download speeds was so large that without throttling, a few users could choke a whole neighbourhoods speed.

Now, if they boost the 32 mbit package to 7 up, and the 50 to 10 up, that rationalization kinda disappears.

Now I know that Rogers doesn't care if their case for throttling is weaker, and I know that the CRTC clearly doesn't care either.

I'm just saying that in principle, Rogers argument for why they need to throttle P2P is constantly less plausible. And at some point it will fall apart completely.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

QL0G1C

join:2007-02-20
Concord, ON
Still no upgrade in Richmond Hill


nospeed4u

@rogers.com
Here are the facts as we know them, unfortunately: One person got the email. One person got the upgrade.

...and hope fizzles out everywhere...


Sanek

join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON
said by nospeed4u :

Here are the facts as we know them, unfortunately: One person got the email. One person got the upgrade.

...and hope fizzles out everywhere...


He did link to a speedtest that he did... If it was an attached file then I might be skeptical and think photoshop or something, but its hosted on the speedtest website, which means it was not tampered with.

We'll see in a few days if this goes anywhere.


nospeed4u

@rogers.com
Absolutely, I do believe he did get the upgrade... the fizzling hope is just the realization that it will take Rogers far too long to implement this across their network (and they'll likely pull the plug before then and we'll be left with what we have now). Sorry, I've been a Rogers customer too long now


Frankgg

@rogers.com
I just did another speed test to make sure it wasn't a fluke and the speed is still there

»www.speedtest.net/result/1452801 ··· 1066.png

I guess I'm very lucky this time around

Xuhum
Premium
join:2007-10-05
Canada