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MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Re: Lawful Access articles - collection

Interesting bits in C-30......

14.(4) The Minister may provide the telecommunications service provider with any equipment or other thing that the Minister considers the service provider needs to comply with an order made under this section.

This clause is very reminiscent of what went on @ ATT in San Francisco and other locations in the USA - equipment which was installed by the NSA »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A



34.(1)(4) The inspector may be accompanied by any other person that they believe is necessary to help them perform their functions under this section.

NSA, CIA tagging along perhaps??
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Say a Canadian ISP has records of customers (general customer information, logs, etc....) but those records are encrypted with two keys, one key held by the ISP itself, the other by a non-Canadian citizen living outside of Canada. The non-Canadian can probably safely refuse to provide his key ....... perhaps worrying only about illegal rendition, or something like this »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De ··· _flights.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

An interesting read - not about Bill C-30, but some parallels apply
»www.thenation.com/articl ··· -toys-it

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable to MaynardKrebs

Anon

to MaynardKrebs
>are encrypted with two keys

You mean 'can be decrypted with two keys', right? If it is a symmetric encryption, then the ISP would already have that 2nd key for encryption. Unless this is a case where the person and the ISP encrypted the data and left the country.

For Asymmetric Encryption, the party that does the encryption with the public key does not necessarily hold the private key that is needed for decryption. (This assumes that the public key is not already in a database owned by the government.) This presents some interesting legal issues.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Ooops. You are correct .... 'decrypt'.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

I wonder if indies will be force to rent more space @ 151 in order to install the racks of equipment the gubbmint wants them to install?
Who will pay for the space?
booj
join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

booj

Member

I think we all know that Bill c-30 costs are a lot easier to swallow for Robellus than the independents. I believe this is why they are silent about the issue.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by booj:

I think we all know that Bill c-30 costs are a lot easier to swallow for Robellus than the independents. I believe this is why they are silent about the issue.

I can just see an indie whose rack/cage space is at the limit now and the Gubbmint says, "Install this rack.". That means incurring the next quantum in rent at a carrier hotel for the next size-up cage (if one is even available & it's not cheap space either), planning & migration costs (labour, overtime, benefits, etc....) all for zero incremental revenue.

Next is the Gubbmint going to require that the equipment be installed in a 'secure' facility. Some ISP's are smaller than spit - are they going to be required to install mantraps, video cameras, biometric locks, etc.... if the facility their in today doesn't have them?

What happens if the Gubbmint refuses to pay the all-in costs of installing Satan's seed (the surveillance equipment) and the ISP refuses to foot the bill for the difference or the whole cost? Does the Gubbmint invoke some clause in another obscene law to forcefully close the ISP down (ie. revoke their business registration)? Does the Gubbmint then provide immunity for itself against lawsuits resulting from actions like this?

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable

Anon

There was the 100,000 customers threshold in C30 for small ISP. Below this size, all you need to do is probably provide a port to the traffic for the goons.

If the G-Man want to dunk their fiber via the sewers and park their van with equipment disguises as a service vehicle + tent on top of a manhole near the small ISP facility, I am sure that could be accommodated.
Ott_Cable

Ott_Cable to booj

Anon

to booj
I am sure this has been posted before:
"Online surveillance bill setup costs estimated at $80M" »www.cbc.ca/news/politics ··· sts.html

>C-30, a bill to update Canadian law when it comes to crimes committed online, will cost $20 million a year for the first four years and $6.7 million a year after that, Public Safety Canada told the CBC's Hannah Thibedeau on Wednesday.

This would amount to less than $3 a person and $0.50 per person per year. I don't think they are using paper note books and pens here. As with all government IT budgets, someone probably missing one or more zero(s) somewhere.

Very likely this cost is government side only and not including the equipment, software, storage, space, employees, security Clearance, expenses etc. that the affected ISP and customers have to shoulder.
Ott_Cable

Ott_Cable

Anon

If you assume that the recurring cost of $6.7 million a year is primarily for extra government paper pusher employees for C30. Using a load labor cost of $100k to $150k a year, this means somewhere between 40 to 60 people.

Even if 70% of the people are analysts, you are only looking at 30-40 people to look at all the new raw data. That number doesn't seem enough. Pretty sure that CSIS, RCMP etc would need to hire more people to parse through the data.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by Ott_Cable :

If you assume that the recurring cost of $6.7 million a year is primarily for extra government paper pusher employees for C30. Using a load labor cost of $100k to $150k a year, this means somewhere between 40 to 60 people.

Even if 70% of the people are analysts, you are only looking at 30-40 people to look at all the new raw data. That number doesn't seem enough. Pretty sure that CSIS, RCMP etc would need to hire more people to parse through the data.

I'm pretty sure that they don't actually want to look at the data just yet.
What they want is a Canadian equivalent to TIA - John Poindexter & the NSA's Total Information Awareness.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In ··· s_Office

»www.aclu.org/technology- ··· a-mining
»www.aclu.org/technology- ··· -program

Also see the New Yorker article link posted earlier in this thread for more info on the ongoing NSA efforts in this area.

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable

Anon

>I'm pretty sure that they don't actually want to look at the data just yet.
So there is no urgency to not to get a warrant then. ;P

I think this whole thing is a pretext to get domestic spying legal in Canada and at the same time outsourcing it to the ISP and other telecom facilities making Canada's listening post on the cheap.

It is not like most of our internet data doesn't pass through the US, NSA not already snooping it on the way... May be US not playing nice sharing as much data as we wish.
Ott_Cable

Ott_Cable

Anon

"Facebook's Top Cop: Joe Sullivan" »www.forbes.com/sites/kas ··· ullivan/

>With longish light-brown hair and gray-speckled goatee, he looks more like a bouncer at a country music bar than an ex-federal prosecutor, let alone the guy responsible for safeguarding and investigating Facebooks 845 million users.

>Most of his security team is based at headquarters in Menlo Park, Calif. and sits at clusters of desks close enough to take dead aim at one another with Nerf darts. Broken roughly into five parts, the team has 10 people review new features being launched, 8 monitor the site for bugs and privacy flaws, 25 handle requests for user information from law enforcement, and a few build criminal and civil cases against those who misbehave on the network;
Ott_Cable

Ott_Cable

Anon

"How to Fix Canada's Online Surveillance Bill: A 12 Step To-Do List" »www.michaelgeist.ca/cont ··· 339/125/

1. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence
2. No Mandatory Warrantless Access to Subscriber Information
3. Reporting Warrantless Disclosure of Subscriber Information
4. Remove the Disclosure Gag Order
5. "Voluntary" Warrantless Data Preservation and Production
6. Government Installation of Surveillance Equipment
7. Reconsider the Internet Provider Regulatory Framework
8. Improve Lawful Access Oversight
9. Limit the Law to Serious Crimes
10. Come Clean on Costs
11. The Missing Regulations
12. Deal With The Failure of Privacy Laws To Keep Pace
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by Ott_Cable :

"How to Fix Canada's Online Surveillance Bill: A 12 Step To-Do List" »www.michaelgeist.ca/cont ··· 339/125/

1. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence
2. No Mandatory Warrantless Access to Subscriber Information
3. Reporting Warrantless Disclosure of Subscriber Information
4. Remove the Disclosure Gag Order
5. "Voluntary" Warrantless Data Preservation and Production
6. Government Installation of Surveillance Equipment
7. Reconsider the Internet Provider Regulatory Framework
8. Improve Lawful Access Oversight
9. Limit the Law to Serious Crimes
10. Come Clean on Costs
11. The Missing Regulations
12. Deal With The Failure of Privacy Laws To Keep Pace

The biggest issue is - should a law like this exist in the first place?

If one should, then the way the law should have been written would to have included this as its first two operative statements after the definitions/preamble section......

1) No provider of telecommunications shall provide any personalized customer information to any person, company, body, agency, or any level of government - domestic or foreign - without first being presented a warrant duly executed by a judge of competent jurisdiction under this Act.

2) It is incumbent upon the provider of telecommunications to verify the warrant has been lawfully issued by contacting the jurisdiction under which it has been issued within 2 hours of receipt of the warrant. Absent confirmation within 72 hours of receipt of the warrant, the telecommunications provider must not release any information to the requesting party.

mazhurg
Premium Member
join:2004-05-02
Brighton, ON

mazhurg to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
Bill is being parked: »www.theglobeandmail.com/ ··· 2349818/
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Somebody commented @ the Globe site on that article:

Seeing that the police and AGs really want this capability vis a vis C-30 so they can join the club of other countries who have the ability to spy on all of their citizens, I can only imagine what their next request for expanded powers will be?

I believe its an 'envy' thing. I modestly propose that a bill C-31 be introduced to complement C-30 which will likely be bull-dozed through Parliament while we are all enjoying the summer this year.

Bill C-31 - The Lawful Interrogation Bill (short name - The Bill To Protect Us From Curb Side Car Dealers Selling Bad Cars, or words to that effect).

The bill will lay out the methods of torture, er interrogation methods the police will be allowed to have to extract confessions and gain information not stored on a computer but held within our minds: Repeated tazering for suspicious people at the airport, water-boarding for jay-walkers, electro-shock treatment for red-light runners, the rack for protestors, flaying for those identified writing negative comments against the police and government in the Globe and Mail, etc.

Torture used to be a legitimate investigative tool in the middle ages and not something for someone's sadistic amusement. Other countries have this capability and our police and AGs are probably envious and likely lobbying for it behind closed doors right now. Why shouldn't we have this ability?

If C-30 gets passed we will already have ceded our constitutional rights, and therefore we must demand C-31 n'est-ce pas?
Vomio
join:2008-04-01

Vomio

Member

I think you are right it is all part of the whole package.

For years all this kind of stuff took place illegally behind the scenes forcing various law enforcement agencies into a moral dilemma.

Now it will be legal, the moral dilemma will be gone.

Since all this "fact finding" took place anyway in the past, legitimizing it like this adds to the transparency of government, something we were promised in previous elections.

We should all feel safer with our transparent, benevolent overlords eliminating the pedophilic automotive hucksters, that threaten the very fabric of our society.

JunjiHiroma
Live Free Or Die
join:2008-03-18
Renfrew, ON

JunjiHiroma to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Somebody commented @ the Globe site on that article:

Seeing that the police and AGs really want this capability vis a vis C-30 so they can join the club of other countries who have the ability to spy on all of their citizens, I can only imagine what their next request for expanded powers will be?

America's Present IS what Canada's future will be.(No rights,Checkpoints,NDAA,etc..

"If you like small government you need to work hard at having a strong national defense that is not so militant. Personal liberty is the purpose of government, to protect liberty - not to run your personal life, not to run the economy, and not to pretend that we can tell the world how they ought to live." -Ron Paul
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Ontario Police Chiefs' Website Hacked In Apparent Protest Against Bill C-30
»www.huffingtonpost.ca/20 ··· business

A cyber attack on the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police's website has only bolstered the organization's support for the government's controversial online surveillance bill, a spokesman said Saturday

While the organization doesn't keep sensitive information about court cases, it does have databases on senior police officers, he said.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Anonymous Gives Public Safety Minister Vic Toews Deadline For Bill C-30
»www.huffingtonpost.ca/20 ··· politics

In a new video, hacker group Anonymous says they're giving Vic Toews seven days before they reveal a new scandal about the Public Safety Minister.

"Anonymous has warned you this is only beginning," says the video. "Over the past several days, we have been inundated with messages exposing all manner of political wrongdoings and personal scandals, some of which extend to the very highest levels of your government."

"There is a very real possibility that after the revelation of this incident, Mr. Toews, that public outrage will not be necessary for you to find yourself without a job."

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· HhsDHsw4

M_
join:2010-05-01
Vancouver, BC

M_

Member

/me Applauds very loudly.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

deleted
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

1 edit

jfmezei

Premium Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

deleted

deleted too, because I was told it wasn't funny :-(
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
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join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

deleted

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable to MaynardKrebs

Anon

to MaynardKrebs


redacted.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

said by Ott_Cable :



redacted.

well, ######### to you too !!!!!
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Facebook Identity Card

»fbbureau.com/

"When crossing the border from Canada to the U.S. last summer the border officer jokingly asked me: "So - What is your Facebook Name?" - @tbx "

It may not be a joke in the near future.
slivers
join:2009-08-28
Canada

slivers

Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

»fbbureau.com/

"When crossing the border from Canada to the U.S. last summer the border officer jokingly asked me: "So - What is your Facebook Name?" - @tbx "

It may not be a joke in the near future.

Hehehe Makes me glad That I've never touched Facebook or Twitter