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hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

[Help] Infiniti Corporate Email and Physical Address

I wish to file a complaint concerning a newly purchased Infiniti G25 sedan. The problem concerns a design flaw with respect to Bluetooth implementation. The dealer has already verified that no existing fix is available and none is in the works from Infiniti (although the same problem has been fixed in other models).

I already have 2 case files with the Infiniti Consumer Affairs Department but they have not received any reply from the factory with respect to the status of a forthcoming remedy - it has been 3 weeks since I first requested a fix.

I would now like to escalate the problem by a formal complaint to the FTC and also be able to copy Infiniti Corporate with the complaint details. So, I would appreciate if anyone could supply me with an email and/or physical address to a high level representative. FWIW, I have googled this and cannot find the info - only links back to the Consumer Affairs Department.

Thanks,
Harvey



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

They are owned by Nissan (a division of Nissan) - there are names here for Nissan and Infinity:
»www.nissannews.com/newsrelease.d···lImage=1

I would go with the regional VP for Infinity - West since you are in TX.

List of potential contacts here:
»www.nissannews.com/newsrelease.d···lImage=1

You might want to see what info they have available via shareholder reports as well.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

Thank. I've already seen both links. The first was mostly bio's with no contact info. The second link had some phone numbers and email addresses but the disclaimer at the top of the page indicated that anything other than PR related inquires would be re-directed back to the Consumer Affairs Department (which has not been able to help so far). It still may be worth a shot to copy them with the formal complaint that I intend to send to the FTC.

What is frustrating is that the dealer and Consumer Affairs people seem very willing to help but there is still no forthcoming response. It leaves me wondering if there intent is to simply placate me until I go away.

Thanks,
Harvey



hortnut
Huh?

join:2005-09-25
PNW
kudos:1
reply to hgratt

Try Infiniti forums? - scroll to middle of page.

»forums.nicoclub.com/

The above seems the most active and feature rich.

hth


hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

said by hortnut:

Try Infiniti forums? - scroll to middle of page.

»forums.nicoclub.com/

The above seems the most active and feature rich.

hth

Thanks. I have submitted the request on that forum.


TypeNameHere

@spcsdns.net
reply to hgratt

I don't understand why people want to mess with the US branch....talk to the Japanese corporate....the whole "save face" mentality of the Japanese is much better than the "save profit by any means" US business model.

NISSAN MOTOR CO., LTD.
Global Communications and CSR Division
CSR Department

Address1-1, Takashima 1-chome, Nishi-ku,
Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa 220-8686, Japan
Fax+81(0)45-523-5771
e-mailNISSAN_SR@mail.nissan.co.jp

NISSAN MOTOR CO., LTD.
Customer Relations Office
Address1-1, Takashima 1-chome, Nishi-ku,
Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa 220-8686, Japan
Toll Free Dial0120-315-232 (Only in Japan)
9:00a.m. - 12:00 noon
13:00p.m. - 17:00 p.m.

Use those....you WILL get results.


hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

said by TypeNameHere :

I don't understand why people want to mess with the US branch....talk to the Japanese corporate....the whole "save face" mentality of the Japanese is much better than the "save profit by any means" US business model.

NISSAN MOTOR CO., LTD.
Global Communications and CSR Division
CSR Department

Address1-1, Takashima 1-chome, Nishi-ku,
Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa 220-8686, Japan
Fax+81(0)45-523-5771
e-mailNISSAN_SR@mail.nissan.co.jp

NISSAN MOTOR CO., LTD.
Customer Relations Office
Address1-1, Takashima 1-chome, Nishi-ku,
Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa 220-8686, Japan
Toll Free Dial0120-315-232 (Only in Japan)
9:00a.m. - 12:00 noon
13:00p.m. - 17:00 p.m.

Use those....you WILL get results.

Now that's good! I will try to go up the chain locally (USA) but make sure to indicate to them that my next correspondence will be with the FTC and with Japanese Corporate.

Thanks for the info,
Harvey


MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream

2 recommendations

reply to hgratt

Ok, I'll bite -- what could possibly be so wrong with their Bluetooth that it warrants FTC intervention? Is it interfering with your TV or radio reception? If not, what concern is it of theirs?

It's hardly a shock that a new model vehicle has a software issue with one of its features, and that nobody has personally notified you of the update schedule in the past three whole weeks.

They've got to identify and then replicate the problem before figuring out a fix. Then they've got to verify that the fix does work. Then it has to be packaged in a manner that it can be deployed in the field by dealer techs. Nowhere in this procedure is there a phase that includes "Call Harvey and tell him the fix will be ready next Thursday after 1pm." The only answer they can give anybody is "we're working on it" and that should be good enough.
--
John M - Cranky network guy


hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

said by MooJohn:

Ok, I'll bite -- what could possibly be so wrong with their Bluetooth that it warrants FTC intervention? Is it interfering with your TV or radio reception? If not, what concern is it of theirs?

It's hardly a shock that a new model vehicle has a software issue with one of its features, and that nobody has personally notified you of the update schedule in the past three whole weeks.

They've got to identify and then replicate the problem before figuring out a fix. Then they've got to verify that the fix does work. Then it has to be packaged in a manner that it can be deployed in the field by dealer techs. Nowhere in this procedure is there a phase that includes "Call Harvey and tell him the fix will be ready next Thursday after 1pm." The only answer they can give anybody is "we're working on it" and that should be good enough.

It's the small things that can drive you up a wall. Infiniti states that, via their Bluetooth compatibility website, that all G Sedans (for numerous phones) support the Bluetooth profile/protocol for implementing call waiting. In fact, there was a fix issued for G35/37 sedans for this very problem in the recent past (service bulletin ITB10-066b). Since I could not get this feature to work, I contacted the Consumer Affairs Department for help (at the dealer's request).

I then filed a formal "complaint" with the Infiniti Consumer Affairs Department (at their request) so they could obtain formal documentation of the issue. When I next talked to them, I was informed of the following information which they had obtained from the factory:

1. The G25 does NOT support call waiting for ANY phone despite this being an advertised feature via their Bluetooth Compatibilty website.

2. I was told that when the Infiniti software techs originally tested this feature, they would disconnect the first call, then take the second call and finally dial back the first call. This was their "interpretation" of how "call waiting" was suppose to work - I was left dumbfounded and speechless (for a short time ) at this explanation.

Subsequently, the local dealer was able to verify that no factory fix currently existed for the G25 sedan.

I then told the Consumer Affairs Department that I would like an answer back in a reasonable time (several weeks) as to whether Infiniti has any intentions of fixing this problem as they have done recently for other models. I realize that the actual fix would take longer, but I want to know that it is actually be worked on.

I was promised an answer in a short time (a simple acknowledgment that a fix was being worked on). That was 3 weeks ago and I have heard nothing and when I called 2 days ago it was indicated that nothing had been processed with respect to the case file. Furthermore I requested that the my case worker please call me so we could discuss the situation - they did not call back.

FWIW, we really like the car and I believe this is the manufacturers problem and not the local dealer's (who was quite good to work with).

So, in summary, Infiniti is aware of the problem and knows how to replicate it. The ONLY thing I requested was an acknowledgment that "we're working on it". After 3 weeks I have not received this simple confirmation.

Harvey


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to MooJohn

said by MooJohn:

Ok, I'll bite -- what could possibly be so wrong with their Bluetooth that it warrants FTC intervention? Is it interfering with your TV or radio reception? If not, what concern is it of theirs?

FTC = Federal Trade Commission
FCC = Federal Communications Commission

I think you are a little confused.


MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream

said by ropeguru:

FTC = Federal Trade Commission
FCC = Federal Communications Commission

I think you are a little confused.

It's what I get for visiting the board while drinking my coffee vs. afterward!

Lots of cars have flaky implementation of Bluetooth. It ranges from barely working at all to a minor annoyance.

Their description of call waiting does leave a bit to be desired. It shouldn't be hard to make a working "flash" button, but that doesn't mean it will be done any time soon.

In the end you might get their attention but it won't mean anything useful. You'll get a consolation pen & stationery set or maybe a coffee mug or keychain but the fix will still take however long they deem necessary.
--
John M - Cranky network guy


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to hgratt

The bios can get you names oyu need to know and then used other means - like the annual reports to get contact information. Or play auto blogger and see if you can call and get their contact information.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

1 recommendation

reply to hgratt

An update:

A little over a week ago I re-contacted Infiniti Consumer Affairs (CA) about the status of the case and was informed that no new information was available. I then contacted them again a few days ago, and was informed that Infiniti was working on a fix for the problem. In fact, I was told that numerous other complaints about the same issue were now coming in.

Additionally, last Saturday, we took the G25 back to the dealer to have the license plates attached and registration sticker put on - at this time the service rep came over to me and indicated the same thing, that Infiniti was working on a fix for the problem and the dealer would contact us when it's available. Hopefully, all this is true and the patch will be forthcoming in several weeks.

Thanks,
Harvey


fixrman
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Don't count on a fix in several weeks. FWIW, I don't understand your fascination with a "problem" not concerned with proper operation of the vehicle. It is an accessory, an option - therefore it is not on a critical list of things to fix. Yes, it should work. Yes, it should have been known that Bluetooth™ does not work with that model. But there is nothing earth-shattering since talking on the phone whilst driving is near enough to be driving whilst drunk. And as far as I am concerned (by the number of people who use it whilst speaking with me) Bluetooth™ sucks.

The Federal Trade Commision isn't going to do anything for you either. There was nothing deceptive or unfair in the representation of the vehicle to you (that you will be able to prove at least) and you are able to use the vehicle for its intended purpose - driving.
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"



No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6

Nice of you to decide what is important and what isn't. I'm sure that takes quite a burden off the guy who actually owns the vehicle



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable

Strings,

To be fair I also thought the OP's ranting was a bit over the top.

It isn't a driving safety issue, and it seems that most Bluetooth functionality is there.

All the complaints in the world aren't going to move this into a critical 'repair required NOW' category.

I also agree with Fixrman that Bluetooth is not a perfect tech, and that no-one should expect appliance-like reliability from it. (Based on my experience with multiple devices from multiple makers)

If any feature of a vehicle is that important to me, then I am going to try before I buy. I'm not trying to shift the blame, I'm just trying to understand where all this passion over call waiting in the car is coming from.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to hgratt

said by hgratt:

Additionally, last Saturday, we took the G25 back to the dealer to have the license plates attached and registration sticker put on

You went to the dealer to have your plate attached?


No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6
reply to Cho Baka

I see it a bit differently:

One guy wanting what he paid for and being willing to put some effort into getting it, unlike most people who would roll over and say "OK."

Another guy who is being dismissive and condescending ... again.



MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream

The first guy can be "that guy" if he wants to -- somebody has to do it. International companies are hardly new to the situation. They have people with degrees in placation (aka Business ) ready to grovel for their whole 8 hour shift.

It's one thing to report a problem but calling about it every 3-4 days is a bit much. It's not like the car screeches to a halt or the doors fly open at random intervals. The freakin bluetooth implementation of call waiting is bad. It's inconvenient but hardly the end of the world. Should they also expect calls when the Distance to Empty calculator is wrong, or the displayed MPG differs by .5 mpg from the hand calculated totals? What if the nav suggests a route that's 5 minutes longer than the shortest? Oh, the humanity!

Their computer system is probably auto-sending another gift -- this time it might be a travel cooler!
--
John M - Cranky network guy



Time
Premium
join:2003-07-05
Mclean, VA
reply to cdru

said by cdru:

said by hgratt:

Additionally, last Saturday, we took the G25 back to the dealer to have the license plates attached and registration sticker put on

You went to the dealer to have your plate attached?

Yeah, my face expression was similar to: o_O

Perhaps he means that the dealer registered the vehicle, although in my state, they mailed me the tags and I had to place them on my vehicle.
--
"If it can't be done with brains, it can't be done with hours" - Clarence "Kelly" Johnson

hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

2 recommendations

1. The dealer registered the vehicle with state and the state mails them to him. Also, the plate fixture requires holes to be drilled into the bumper. If the dealer screws it up, he replaces the bumper for free, if I screw up, I pay.

2. Bluetooth compatibility (specifically "call waiting") was an advertised feature. I do expect to get what I payed for - and it would be deceptive to advertise it and then not have it.

3. As far as "proving" the problem exist, Infiniti (to their credit) has already acknowledged the fact.

4. a) If the car had a defective paint job, I would complain even though this does not affect the ability to drive the car.
b) If the car had a defective radio, I would complain even though this does not affect the ability to drive the car.
c) If the car seats were defective, I would complain even though this does not affect the ability to drive the car.

5. Bluetooth enables hands-free cellphone usage. In my geographic area, this is a requirement. Having to fumble with the cellphone to take another call (as suggested by the dealer) is dangerous and is a safety issue.



EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

I believe you've made a reasonable case and are pursuing it appropriately by going to each level as the responses - or lack thereof - indicate.

Expecting a feature to work as advertised is not unreasonable. In this case, the feature was dis-functional to the point that a driver using it on the road would have created a safety and legal issue.

I've found that if you don't document and follow up regularly, things tend to come to a halt. Too often, someone will say "we'll get back to you ..." but you don't hear back. Then, If you wait too long and you try to re-activate the case, you have to start all over again.

As long as you keep communications civil and businesslike (a little schmoozing doesn't hurt either), I believe you will get your desired results by taking your present course.
--
Follow your dreams, except the one where you're naked in church.



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

said by EGeezer:

Expecting a feature to work as advertised is not unreasonable. In this case, the feature was dis-functional to the point that a driver using it on the road would have created a safety and legal issue.

In what way has it created a safety or legal issue? Millions of cars are on the road that don't have call waiting blue tooth capabilities. If the car was advertised as having bluetooth call waiting support, and it didn't have that capability or it's implementation was broken, that's one issue if any type of redress is appropriate. It's not the manufacturer's responsibility to make sure you answer your phone in a safe manner, and you ultimately have the choice of not answering the phone to begin with.

If you are relying on the manufacturer's implementation of a feature to keep you safe, you are going about things backwards. It's not the automaker's fault if you are following too closely behind someone too fast and your ABS can't stop you in time and the airbags don't prevent all injuries in the resulting collision.

Bluetooth call waiting on a 3rd party radio (presuming the radio is made by Clarion like the G35) is essentially a convenience feature on an add on system (bluetooth) to a non-critical component (radio). The fact that it's getting much of any attention somewhat surprises me. Buggy, shoddy, or incomplete implementations of advanced features that span many different devices is not all that uncommon.


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric

1 edit

As insurance actuarial studies and the great body of evidence indicates, fiddling with a cellphone while driving is a safety issue. It's illegal in many areas, including the OP's, to use cell phones unless they're hands-free.

From a practical standpoint, using the advertised feature safely would require the user to pull off the road and park in a safe place prior to using it - something that would be impractical or even impossible to do in most driving situations.

Just because a feature is substantially misrepresented doesn't make it right if "everybody is doing it".

I still stand for the OP's right and justification to pursue the issue. It's a significant defect that, from a practical standpoint, makes the advertised feature unusable for a driver in a moving vehicle.
--
Follow your dreams, except the one where you're naked in church.


hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

1 recommendation

reply to EGeezer

said by EGeezer:

I believe you've made a reasonable case and are pursuing it appropriately by going to each level as the responses - or lack thereof - indicate.

Expecting a feature to work as advertised is not unreasonable. In this case, the feature was dis-functional to the point that a driver using it on the road would have created a safety and legal issue.

I've found that if you don't document and follow up regularly, things tend to come to a halt. Too often, someone will say "we'll get back to you ..." but you don't hear back. Then, If you wait too long and you try to re-activate the case, you have to start all over again.

As long as you keep communications civil and businesslike (a little schmoozing doesn't hurt either), I believe you will get your desired results by taking your present course.

As you indicated, I simply was taking a step by step approach to resolve this issue - I paid for a feature I felt was important and expected it to be as advertised. In fact, I have a good relationship with the dealer and especially the Infiniti Consumer Affair Department (CAD). The initial frustration was in getting a response from the factory - they seemed to be ignoring both me and their own CAD.

I have been in touch with the CAD weekly and as I previously indicated, they now are receiving numerous other complaints about the same issue. They do seem to be following thru in the manner one would hope. And yes, the conversations have been quite civil and constructive - the people I'm dealing with (CAD and Bluetooth specialist) have been quite helpful.

Thanks,
Harvey


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
reply to EGeezer

said by EGeezer:

As insurance actuarial studies and the great body of evidence indicates, fiddling with a cellphone while driving is a safety issue. It's illegal in many areas, including the OP's, to use cell phones unless they're hands-free.

Hands-free, as in: not allowed to use your hand to hold the phone against your head while talking. Cell phone bans don't prohibit driving while touching the phone buttons with your hand for dialing or switching calls.

Otherwise, every vehicle bluetooth system that isn't 100% voice controlled would be illegal, since pressing a button the steering wheel to control the phone (or the touch screen on the nav screen) would violate the hands free clause.


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable
reply to No_Strings

said by No_Strings:

I see it a bit differently:

One guy wanting what he paid for and being willing to put some effort into getting it, unlike most people who would roll over and say "OK."

Another guy who is being dismissive and condescending ... again.

I have no issue or concern with the OP trying to get what he paid for, nor am I suggesting he roll over.

I guess the biggest thing I would suggest is that the OP temper his expectations as far as the time frame for resolution of this.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

hgratt

join:2003-12-09
Plano, TX

said by Cho Baka:

said by No_Strings:

I see it a bit differently:

One guy wanting what he paid for and being willing to put some effort into getting it, unlike most people who would roll over and say "OK."

Another guy who is being dismissive and condescending ... again.

I have no issue or concern with the OP trying to get what he paid for, nor am I suggesting he roll over.

I guess the biggest thing I would suggest is that the OP temper his expectations as far as the time frame for resolution of this.

Yes. Probably several months would be more in line to fix this sort of thing. As I stated previously, the frustration arose when the factory would not acknowledge either to me or their own Consumer Affairs Department that they were even going to fix the problem.

Harvey

fixrman
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to No_Strings

I think you need a cold shower. First of all there is no condescension; I am simply a lot more pragmatic about things than apparently you are. Taking the matter as high as the OP is for what amounts to a minor issue with respect to the primary purpose of the vehicle is is a bit ludicrous to me. I could turn the argument around on you and say that you look to find fault in most of my posts. I'd lay a dollar to a biscuit that you moderate ones out that you don't like. Perhaps you won't like this one.

I had been a technician for a long time, Strings. I have been in situations where there is no known fix and actually have found a repair. Sorry if I sound jaded, but the American driving public suffers buyer's remorse more quickly than it takes to flick a light switch. It is nice when a long standing problem gets solved and I love being the one who finds it, but there is no reward in most cases.

If the OPs primary concern was the Bluetooth™ , then I am sorry for him that it didn't work out(although there is no way it could be for the money he paid). I think the key here is patience, as I am sure that the dealer is not ignoring his problem. I assure you, I have been in situations where I have called customers to give them the dreaded "no update update" and tried to explain to them that we were doing all that we could. I suppose that in the grand scheme of things there are many people who let things go, who are not concerned with customer care or satisfaction - but if you had any idea how hard it is to keep an automotive customer happy these days it would make you spit. I rarely had any appreciation for those updates and when the vehicle was fixed, "It sure took you long enough" was a likely salutation.

I have a friend who wanted someone to handle all sorts of problems like that at a local foreign car dealer. In the end I decided that it wasn't worth it. I am now in an industry that is appreciated. When I arrive, people are glad to see me. Most people are never glad to see the car guy. BTW, I charge for my services, they are not free - but people are still happy to pay, unlike in the automotive industry.

Unfortunately, people don't like to hear hard truths no matter what. For that reason, there are always people who want to hear the magic cure, the cheap fix, the repair in a bottle. Sometimes it takes time to repair a problem. Sometimes the engineers just don't know. Sometimes the problem is a one-off. As technicians or former technicians, sometimes we'd like a little credit for actually doing our jobs and would appreciate the understanding of an owner that we are actually doing just that. Perhaps not in the time frame that he wants, but things eventually get worked out.

The problem is not disabling the vehicle nor does it appear to prevent Bluetooth™ use. Is it really the end of the world?
--
"from a broken heart to a hole in the sky"



No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
kudos:6

said by fixrman:

I am now in an industry that is appreciated. When I arrive, people are glad to see me. Most people are never glad to see the car guy. BTW, I charge for my services, they are not free - but people are still happy to pay, unlike in the automotive industry.

I'd call that a win/win.