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TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to wifi4milez

Re: Making unions illegal would solve many problems

Great idea! Make it easier for hard working Americans to be fired and laid-off at the whim of big business!

I won't argue that unions are the good guys; they definitely need some change and they need some corruption rooted out. But, you say you want to force people to actually compete for their jobs... without unions some of these jobs wouldn't even exist. The 'free-market' would have eliminated them or shipped them overseas long ago.


Deval6

join:2007-01-03
New York, NY

1 recommendation

My $.02 on the matter...I agree that some jobs may not have existed, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the whole point of the American Dream to work hard and earn your keep? To work for opportunities, not have them handed to you on a platter?

When I say you, I'm not referring to you you, just in general.
--
My replies and comments contain my opinion on the matters which have been posted, and do not represent the rules, policies and regulations of my employer and should not be taken as such.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to TheRogueX
said by TheRogueX:

Make it easier for hard working Americans to be fired and laid-off at the whim of big business!

Absolutely. What makes you so special that you should have a guaranteed job for life?? Are you scared that if you had to work for a living you might get replaced by someone more qualified who is willing to work for less? The great thing about non union jobs is that everyone is 'at will'. This means if you dont pull your weight each day you will get fired. I know the concept of keeping your job based on performance might be shocking, but welcome to the (non union) reality of the world.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to Deval6
Not sure what is being handed to an American union worker on a platter? Everything a union worker has(wages, benefits, job security) was earned. Ever spend weeks or months on strike with no pay or benefits without any idea how long before you'll be back at work? It isn't easy. It requires fortitude and determination, and the belief that by witholding your hard work the corporation you work for will realize how necessary your skill and hard work are to their profitability. If you aren't earning your keep they'll replace you en mass. That is earning your opportunities, all in, better wages and benefits or no job at all. My union has struck for 7 months, 4 1/2 months and several strikes of multiple weeks duration to get the wages and benefits we currently enjoy. Anyone who has gone through these strikes can attest to how we earned our opportunities.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

Everything a union worker has(wages, benefits, job security) was earned.

HA! Earned? Blackmailing your employer by threatening to disrupt their operations is hardly "earned". Try working hard and actually earning promotions and pay raises and then get back to me.

said by CXMNYC:

Ever spend weeks or months on strike with no pay or benefits without any idea how long before you'll be back at work?

Nope, never. The reason is because if I did I would lose my job. Its amazing how that works; people work harder and attempt to better themselves so they can keep their jobs. Take that fear away and you get a society of entitlement bums.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to Deval6
said by Deval6:

correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the whole point of the American Dream to work hard and earn your keep? To work for opportunities, not have them handed to you on a platter?

That analysis is spot on. What keeps me motivated at work is knowing that if I am not doing a good job I will be replaced. Unions remove that factor by allowing lazy and incompetent members to hide behind policies and the thugs that enforce them.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
reply to wifi4milez
You would lose your job if you struck because in spite of your fervent belief that your hard work and dedication keep you employed, truth is you are easily replaced. Blackmailing my employer? Me and my fellow union workers simply withhold our labor from the company, demonstrating to the corporation how valuable our labor is. If we weren't skilled, hard working and reliable the corporation would replace us en mass, but they don't because we are that skilled, hard working and reliable. Think about it; if we're a bunch off lazy and incompetent slobs why when we strike does,t the corporation simply replace us? There is no law prohibiting this from the company. You seem bitter that others have the fortitude, courage and determination to prove to their employer just have valuable they are. As you've admitted you would be fired because you are not so skilled or hard working that your employer could and would fire you for being uppity enough to want better wages, benefits or working conditions. I wish you good fortune and prosperity.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

You would lose your job if you struck because in spite of your fervent belief that your hard work and dedication keep you employed, truth is you are easily replaced.

Amazing! Thats the first time you have been right in this whole discussion. Yes, of course I am easily replaceable and I would lose my job if I didnt show up. Thats the whole point, I work hard (and show up to work) so I can remain employed. A side effect of this is that I excel at my job, and I have received numerous promotions and pay raises due to my hard work.

said by CXMNYC:

If we weren't skilled, hard working and reliable the corporation would replace us en mass, but they don't because we are that skilled, hard working and reliable. Think about it; if we're a bunch off lazy and incompetent slobs why when we strike does,t the corporation simply replace us?

You are either highly delusional or simply misinformed. The reason your company cant replace you is because of the draconian contracts the union forced your employer to sign.

said by CXMNYC:

There is no law prohibiting this from the company.

You obviously have no idea how the legal system in the United States works. By law your company must abide by the contract(s) it has in place. In most cases the union has put specific provisions in place that prohibit the hiring of non union employees for specific jobs. In addition, they strong arm any potential employees to join the union and pay fees, effectively eliminating any possible alternate labor force in the local market.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
Speaking of no idea about how the law works and being delusional. Contracts are for a finite period of time. Usually in my industry 3 years. The union con not strike while the contract is in effect. When the contract expires we can strike. The corporation can fire us all once the contract has expired! When we go on strike, the corporation is leagally allowed to fire us all! They don't because we are somewhat me skilled and valuable then misinformed people are lead to believe. Look it up. I speak the truth. I can be fired once my unions contract expires.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

The union con not strike while the contract is in effect.

Nonsense! Unions have gone on strike many times while under contract. In addition some federal employees who are in the union are prohibited by law from going on strike (ever!) yet they still do. Please learn more about the topic before you attempt to defend your position.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
The last federal employees to go on strike who were prohibited from going on strike were the air traffic controlers and they were all fired, and rightly so. The weren't allowed to strike by law, they struck and got fired. My union cannot go on strike while our contract is in force. Only when it expires can we "legally" strike. We've never illegally struck. When the contract expires we CAN ALL BE FIRED! Yet we aren't. Imagine that? Maybe we are not all a bunch of lazy boobs and our company needs our skills, knowledge and dedication? They could replace us all at once. This I know to be true and factual beyond a doubt. I know your worldview can not comprehend that a group of union workers is so vital to a business that the wouldn't fire them all given the chance, but every 3 years they have that chance and we're still here. Go figure?


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

The last federal employees to go on strike who were prohibited from going on strike were the air traffic controlers

Yawn, wrong again. Some unions negotiate (or include) what is known as a "no strike" clause in their agreements while others do not. In some other cases local or federal judges will weigh in during a strike and declare the union members actions illegal.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
Really? What federal employees union that is legally barred from striking has gone on strike since PATCO? PAtCO by the way is the air traffic controlers union, or was.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

Really? What federal employees union that is legally barred from striking has gone on strike since PATCO? PAtCO by the way is the air traffic controlers union, or was.

Other non federal unions have been legally barred from striking since the air traffic controller scandal and have still done so. Regardless of whether the union is federal or not, it can be (depending on the contract) illegal to strike. Therefore, your argument that unions can not strike when a contract is in place is balderdash.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
My union can not strike while contract is in place. Beyond that our contract has expired 6 times over the last 15 years. Every time it expires we can all be fired, and yet we are still here. We are valuable enough where our corporation negociates with us and keeps signing new contracts. You unfortunately are not that valuable to your employer and must contiuosly hope to curry favor with your corporate master to keep your job. I feel for you bro!


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

My union can not strike while contract is in place.

Right, but there have been numerous instances where unions who are not supposed to strike do.

said by CXMNYC:

You unfortunately are not that valuable to your employer and must contiuosly hope to curry favor with your corporate master to keep your job. I feel for you bro!

Thanks! To be honest however, I really dont mind earning my keep each and every day. Sure, it would be far easier to know that no matter what I did I couldnt be fired but then I wouldnt be where I am today.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
Me and my coworkers can be fired, same as you. I have had coworkers fired for cause, it happens. Excessive abcense, tardiness, insubordination, thft, violence, sleeping on the job. It happens here and everywhere. People get fired for doing stupid things all the time. Where I work its no different. We all earn our keep everyday. That is the fact. Bad employees with or without a union get fired. Sometimes bad employees get over and stay employeed, with or witout a union. I am knowledgeable, skilled and hard working, I belong to a union. My fellow union members run the gamut from great employees to shitty employees. Most are somewhere in between. Our union membership didn't make us good or bad employees, our individual work ethic and values made us what we are. Same as non union, just we realize collectively we will get a better deal from our souless corporation than we could as individuals.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

I am knowledgeable, skilled and hard working

I never said you (individually) were not, so please dont mistake my argument with a personal attack. For all I know you are the most hard working person on earth, and I commend you for all your achievements. However, I correctly pointed out how unions foster laziness and incompetence at wages that are higher than what is charged in the private sector.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)


CXMNYC

join:2011-08-30
New York, NY
I understand the point your making. However, I work in the private sector, I am not a government employee. I think you meant in an non union employment situation. My point, and it is anecdotal(just what I've experienced personally) is that the union workers around me are mostly all hard working and dedicated, some are lazy slobs. The lazy slobs, would be lazy slobs wherever they worked, union or non union. Their work ethics where formed long before the got a union job. I've had plenty of non union jobs through the years and I've encountered just as many lazy and careless workers there. It is easier to fire non union workers who suck, but I've seen plenty of union workers who suck get fired. I've also seen good workers in non union jobs get fired because they didn't kiss a managers ass enough. If you're a good employee your job shouldn't be at the whim of someone because they don't like your personality. You should be judged on your value as an employee. Being part of 35000 employees I know if I were fired my company wouldn't skip a beat, despite my belief that I'm an excellent employee. My unions value to me is that I know I will only be fired for a just cause. Union employees have a sense that we will not be fired over a trivial matter like a personality conflict with a foreman.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by CXMNYC:

I think you meant in an non union employment situation.

Yes I did, thank you for catching that as I was using the wrong term.