| Undetectable VPN So here's the situation. I need to set up a VPN for the purpose of making my IP address come from a country where I do not live. I need this so that I can play a game, which is not allowed in my country. This is a problem, as I am a professional gamer.
If the admins at the game server do an investigation into my IP address and can detect that I am using a VPN, then my account gets banned.
If the game client on my PC detects my true location, true IP address, or VPN client software, then it's also game over.
So I need the VPN concentrator to hide the fact that it is a VPN. I would want it to appear as if it was a normal home network.
I also need it to be invisible to my PC that it is using a VPN. I'm thinking I would need a hardware firewall that handles the VPN connection and is configured to appear like a normal router if the game client where to probe it.
I'm not afraid to throw a lot of money at this problem. Whether that be in hardware costs or consulting fee's.
Thoughts? References? |
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| If you use any VPN service, it is likely the game admins will be able to figure out that your traffic is coming from the VPN endpoint, and then ban it (assuming they don't already have lists of VPN service providers IPs blocked)
If your setup your own VPN, like where the endpoint is at a friends house or business within the "allowed" country, then that will look OK, except that your latency will always be high, which they may be able to detect and then figure out what your doing.
...I don't see how you can make this fool-proof undetectable. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | reply to VPN_FTW
Try "tor" service. Search for it with Google. |
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| reply to supergeeky
I do have a friends house where I was planning to set up a VPN. I believe it's called a VPN concentrator? Now you say that my latency will always be high. The game I play does not require much bandwidth. I would equate it to a game of chess. A my turn, your turn type game. |
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| reply to OZO
I do not think that TOR would be appropriate for this situation, but I've never used it so I could be wrong.
Would they be able to detect that I was using TOR? |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | The best way to get the answer is to try it.
VPN is a tunnel. It always has two ends. One is obviously your computer with your IP. I suppose you want to have the other end to be in that remote county. Right? If so, you may want to look at a VPN provider, that offer the second end residing in that country. I don't see how your friend (unless he is in that remote country) could help.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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| The problem with using a VPN provider is that I don't know if they hide the fact that they are a VPN IP address. If the admins look into the IP address, they might be able to detect that the IP belongs to a VPN service. I want to avoid that potential problem by putting a VPN concentrator in my friends place and use his IP address. That IP address would just look like a normal IP address (since it is one). My concern is that if the VPN concentrator was not configured properly it might be detectable if the admins sent a some sort of query request or whatever to the IP. |
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| reply to VPN_FTW
Thoughts :
- you're confusing the function of VPN with the function of proxy. From a network standpoint,
a VPN is about validating and encrypting data between two trusted endpoints, while a proxy is
having an intermediary between two communicating endpoints which may not be themselves trusted.
- While you could masquerade your IP address to appear to come from another country, it's not
hard to ban a range of IP addresses if one wanted.
- not sure what you mean by the comment 'hide the fact it is a VPN.' Or do you mean by how
transparent the VPN connection itself is to you as the user?
- how much would you be willing to throw at this problem versus how much it would cost to move
to a country with a permitted IP address? (seriously)
- latency != bandwidth. If you do go the VPN route, you basically have to account for the
actual network path the data takes -- eg. from your country, to the country of your friend,
to the game server, then that path in reverse -- plus the latency of the packet(s) being
decrypted / processed along the way. How much this will affect you won't be known till it's
actually set up and running.
- IP addresses are IP addresses, there is not a 'VPN' IP address and a 'normal' IP address.
They CAN get crossreferenced to an entity that owns that particular block of IP addresses, in
which case as the other posters have noted, if they've been blacklisted by the game admins,
you're SOL.
- if this friend is in a permitted country, I don't see why a simpler idea like RDP or Citrix
couldn't be used.
References - VPN
References - Tor
My 00000010bits on this topic.
Regards |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | reply to VPN_FTW
HELLFIRE  is absolutely right. You need a proxy, located in that country. How you will contact that proxy (via VPN, SSH, etc) doesn't matter.
Proxy could be any computer. Rent a host there. Or send a laptop to your friend (if he's there) or ask him run a computer for you. Then control it from your home via remote connection...
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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| reply to HELLFIRE
said by HELLFIRE:Thoughts :
- you're confusing the function of VPN with the function of proxy. From a network standpoint,
a VPN is about validating and encrypting data between two trusted endpoints, while a proxy is
having an intermediary between two communicating endpoints which may not be themselves trusted.
The original source of my research said to stay away from proxies because the proxy will be detectable. However, they were talking about paid for proxy services, not about setting up a personal proxy server in a friends apartment. So maybe the personal proxy is the way to go.
Would a personal proxy be configurable such that ALL my internet traffic will flow through it? The game client phones home on various UDP ports. I was told that a proxy might not redirect this, but that a VPN is very easily configured to have all traffic flow through the VPN. However, I think they were talking about paid for proxy vs VPN services and not personal servers in a friends apartment.
said by HELLFIRE:- While you could masquerade your IP address to appear to come from another country, it's not
hard to ban a range of IP addresses if one wanted.
If I'm using my friends IP address, I assume this would be a safe IP and not black listed.
said by HELLFIRE:- not sure what you mean by the comment 'hide the fact it is a VPN.' Or do you mean by how
transparent the VPN connection itself is to you as the user?
I would not want the game client on my PC to be able to detect that a VPN is being used.
I also would not want the game admins to be able to detect that a VPN concentrator is being used if they were to investigate the IP. My understanding is that if you did a whois on the IP, a public proxy probably would not hide the fact that it is a proxy. I would not want a VPN concentrator or proxy to also give up this information.
The point is, that if the game admins can detect a proxy or VPN being used from either the server side or the game client, then I get a big red flag on my account and most likely will get banned upon a through investigation.
said by HELLFIRE:- how much would you be willing to throw at this problem versus how much it would cost to move
to a country with a permitted IP address? (seriously)
Moving is not an option for me, I have a family and refuse to uproot them if it can be avoided.
I would be willing to spend 10k on this project, but hoping to spend less. Have any references?
said by HELLFIRE:- latency != bandwidth. If you do go the VPN route, you basically have to account for the
actual network path the data takes -- eg. from your country, to the country of your friend,
to the game server, then that path in reverse -- plus the latency of the packet(s) being
decrypted / processed along the way. How much this will affect you won't be known till it's
actually set up and running.
I can be quite confident that the latency will not be an issue. There are other gamers who are using a VPN already and are able to play with no issue. However, they are getting detected eventually, presumable because the VPN service doesn't do a good enough job hiding the fact that it is a VPN service. Hence my desire to have a personal one that can be configured securely and the IP will be a legitimate home IP address, so the IP provider won't raise any red flags.
said by HELLFIRE:- IP addresses are IP addresses, there is not a 'VPN' IP address and a 'normal' IP address.
They CAN get crossreferenced to an entity that owns that particular block of IP addresses, in
which case as the other posters have noted, if they've been blacklisted by the game admins,
you're SOL.
If I'm using my friends IP and his provider is a standard internet provider, I believe I should be safe.
said by HELLFIRE:- if this friend is in a permitted country, I don't see why a simpler idea like RDP or Citrix
couldn't be used.
There are several reasons why RDP would not work. First off, it's probably too slow viable. Perhaps I could live with it, but IDK. Second off, the game client already checks for this to prevent botting. They detect it by checking how the RDP is controlling the mouse. The mouse movements are not as smooth when using RDP as they are when normally being used. Also, the low level hooking method RDP uses to control the mouse is also detectable.
I'm not sure exactly what Citrix is, sounds like a VPS? Once again if I was using this solution, I think I would need a server in my friends apartment to guarantee the IP address provider is not a red flag.
Thank you for your thoughts, keep them coming! |
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| reply to VPN_FTW
Thoughts for VPN_FTW
said by VPN_FTW:If I'm using my friends IP address, I assume this would be a safe IP and not black listed. Possibly, but if the game admins ever did discover some shenanigans, no reason why they couldn't
ban your friend's IP and/or his entire subnet. That's the point I'm trying to make. Proceed
with that warning in mind.
said by VPN_FTW:I would not want the game client on my PC to be able to detect that a VPN is being used.
I also would not want the game admins to be able to detect that a VPN concentrator is being used if they were to investigate the IP. My understanding is that if you did a whois on the IP, a public proxy probably would not hide the fact that it is a proxy. I would not want a VPN concentrator or proxy to also give up this information.
The point is, that if the game admins can detect a proxy or VPN being used from either the server side or the game client, then I get a big red flag on my account and most likely will get banned upon a through investigation. Not sure how the game client would 'detect' a VPN is being used, then again I'm not a programmer.
The network-based VPNs I'm familar with are transparent to the end user and software.
On the flip side, without knowing what detection measures the game admins have in place, this
is just a big game of hide and go seek here that you're playing. The overall point is I don't
think there is an 'undetectable' solution you're looking for, short of moving to a permitted
country.
said by VPN_FTW:I'm not sure exactly what Citrix is, sounds like a VPS? References - Citrix
Personally I think you're going at this looking for the most complex solution possible, or we don't
have enough information about the game and the detection methods in use, but I don't see why some
remote desktop technology (not necessarily RDP) couldn't be used. xVNC and similar come to mind.
Best of luck in your investigation VPN_FTW.
Regards |
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| i was really hoping for more promising news when I first stumbled upon this thread lol
ive been using GoToMyPC (Citrix) to control a computer from half way around the world, literally. its better than nothing, but i cant play more than 16-18 games at once. host PC is on a 30mbit down/20mbit up cable connection, so what i have now is about as good as it will get for me. if you had a computer set up in canada it would probably be quicker. |
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