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dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to TigerLord

Re: Hurt Locker P2P Lawsuit Comes to Canada

said by TigerLord:

The movie was barely deserving of its Oscar nominations, let alone its trophies. The studio has lost its mind.

Agreed. It was junk IMHO. I would have turned it off during opening credits if there were any. That said, Chariots of Fire was far worse and made way more money. So maybe they have a point. Not much ISO downloading going on in 1981.



Mike
--
AVP... UBB... which poop stinks less?


CanadianRip

join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON
reply to static416

I'm going to incorporate and place my Internet connection under the corporate name.

I use an open wifi; and can't control what my connection gets used for when I'm not around the house. I constantly have people over that I share my wifi with, and overnight guests.

I'll limit the liability of having my Internet connection to the corporation.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by CanadianRip:

I'm going to incorporate and place my Internet connection under the corporate name.

I'll limit the liability of having my Internet connection to the corporation.

Then have the shares of that company owned by another in Panama, which is in turn owned by one in the Netherlands Antillies, thence by one in the Cook Islands, and finally one in Lesotho controlled by a Nigerian Prince who would gladly share $23.5 Million USD with them if they would so kindly forward $100,000 to grease the palms of a petty bureaucrat so the funds can be released.

Just don't have the account paid from your credit card or your personal bank account.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to static416

DONT PAY.
ever...costs them huge bucks to put you in a jail for it all.....
and every person they remove is a lost tax payer as well.

you still spend your cash in the economy and when you get removed.....it also puts more burden on debt ....

im gonna go download it 50 times and let them sue me....wheres the torrent that is getting people sued....HEY if the CRIA can not pay people for 40 years and settle for a 40th of the cost then whats the cost of a single cdr/dvdr and ill pay you that in 40years.

That would be what i'd say to the court and judge....


funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by CanadianRip:

I'm going to incorporate and place my Internet connection under the corporate name.

I'll limit the liability of having my Internet connection to the corporation.

Then have the shares of that company owned by another in Panama, which is in turn owned by one in the Netherlands Antillies, thence by one in the Cook Islands, and finally one in Lesotho controlled by a Nigerian Prince who would gladly share $23.5 Million USD with them if they would so kindly forward $100,000 to grease the palms of a petty bureaucrat so the funds can be released.

Just don't have the account paid from your credit card or your personal bank account.

do what Mulroney did you silly people up to swiss account then down to Lichtenstein in about 50000 dummy corporations out to Belize for money laundering and back to canada with jaffer and gurgis....OH wait did i just say that out loud....


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
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reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

The movie was barely deserving of its Oscar nominations, let alone its trophies. The studio has lost its mind.

I know this was said when the lawsuits came to the US, but it bears repeating:

It's ironic that a movie where the protagonist frequently buys pirated DVDs as a way to connect with the locals is suing those who pirated the movie.

I guess the is still escaping the rights holders...
--
I'm watching District 9 again, and I've come to realize something: Wikus's got it all wrong. If I were morphing into a 9 foot tall hyper-dextrous alien that can shoot lightning bolts and get high off cat food why would I ever want to become human again?


neuromancer1

join:2007-01-22
York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to shepd

said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

No actually the best way is to keep downloading there stuff and use Peerblock so they can go suck eggs.


Jeffer71

join:2008-09-13
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·Acanac

said by neuromancer1:

said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

No actually the best way is to keep downloading there stuff and use Peerblock so they can go suck eggs.

Newsgroups, a Vpn and Unlimited Downloading on Bhells network for the win!


round 2

@videotron.ca

Via copyright lawyer Howard Knopf

Hurt Locker Lawsuits About to Detonate in Canada?
»excesscopyright.blogspot.com/201···ate.html

Hurt Locker Lawsuits About to Detonate in Canada?
Michael Geist reports that the Hurt Locker litigation campaign is being imported into Canada.

An order to disclose the identities behind a list of IP addresses furnished by Volate Pictures LCC has been obtained.

It appears that the three ISPs involved, namely Bell Canada, Cogeco Câble inc. et Vidéotron s.e.n.c., did nothing to protest look out for their customers' privacy rights. They did not even appear on the motion.

Indeed, in the original BMG litigation, in which I was involved, Bell and Rogers did virtually nothing to protect their customers. They sent in prominent counsel to watch the proceedings, and to look out for the ISPs' interests. Vidéotron was actually on the side of the record companies. It was probably no coincidence that, even then, these companies had substantial IP ownership interests.

The ISP fight was led - and very capabaly so - by counsel for Shaw and Telus. CIPPIC, the intervener, for whom I acted as lead counsel, along with Alex Cameron who handled the privacy aspect, fought very hard to ensure that there was an adequate copyright basis and sufficient privacy guarantees in place. This would have required the record companies to provide sufficient, reliable non-hearsay evidence, They were apparently unable or unwilling to do so and the litigation faded away.

There are both substantive and procedural arguments that could have and perhaps should have been made in the current case by the ISPs. As the American courts are beginning to realize, mass law suits - especially when bittorent and other more complex technologies than old fashioned Napster era file sharing technologies are involved - present some very complicated issues and should not be allowed to proceed en masse without adequate scrutiny. Indeed, when they are fought, they tend to stall and collapse. We have seen this not only in the USA but in England.

Hopefully, someone will be keeping an eye out for the potential defendants in Canada this time around to ensure that their privacy rights are protected and that the Copyright Act is correctly applied.


Seems the ISP's in question have no problem handing over peoples info as long as they get paid to do it.

Cogeco (AKA: The company that said All our customer are thieves)

Bell (AKA: The company that hate their customers more than we hate them)

And of course the worse of them all, Videotron (AKA: The company that said suing our customers is a good way to monetize)


justsomeguy8

join:2007-10-08
N5M3Z3
reply to static416

Ya, I hope everyone switches over to 1-way systems in which no uploading is ever involved.

Anyone who is still using torrents is just asking for trouble.



neuromancer1

join:2007-01-22
York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to Jeffer71

said by Jeffer71:

said by neuromancer1:

said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

No actually the best way is to keep downloading there stuff and use Peerblock so they can go suck eggs.

Newsgroups, a Vpn and Unlimited Downloading on Bhells network for the win!

Never cared for usernet not willing to pay extra for the service but it's good idea none the less stick it to these greedy scum bags and there over priced crappy movies.

justsomeguy8

join:2007-10-08
N5M3Z3
reply to neuromancer1

said by neuromancer1:

said by shepd:

Your best way to put companies this stupid in a hurt locker is to stop supporting them. Do not watch or do anything to give money to any of the films on this page:

»www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/

Make sure anyone involved knows that if they work for Voltage Pictures their movie will never be enjoyed by anyone and that they may/may not get paid when Voltage Pictures goes bankrupt from the lack of income.

No actually the best way is to keep downloading there stuff and use Peerblock so they can go suck eggs.

You'll be the one sucking eggs if you think peerblock is worthwhile protection. Do you know how easy it is for the media companies to get or use IP addresses that aren't on peerblock's list of blocked IPs ?


neuromancer1

join:2007-01-22
York, ON

I could care less since most the time I use only private Torrents. Peerblock is better then nothing for people using public Torrents.



RagedBull

@teksavvy.com
reply to static416

Suing people is the only way voltage can profit off hurt locker, the movie was horrible and i doubt anyone really paid to watch it



Hyrules

join:2006-07-19
Gatineau, QC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Videotron
·ELECTRONICBOX
·FreePhoneLine
reply to static416

For those torrenting you can always get a seedbox. That's what i do since a year now. I HTTPS my box and SFTP to get my stuff. Encrypted and secure. ISP only know you downloaded alot of something but cannot tell what. I'm also thinking of going to Newsgroup. I just hope for the sake of mankind that people standup to those big companies. I find inexcusable to pay 32$ for a freakin bluray plastic media. Sell it to me 5$ online and I will buy it. More than that is too much. I bet your wallet that if you start selling movies DRM-free at 5$ the hell you'll get rich fast.


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to static416

So I spent most of last night looking at VPN, seedboxes, VPS, Usenet, etc.

At this point I think the safest option is to just avoid bittorrent in favor of Usenet. Only because they aren't targeting Usenet. That said, you can probably still use Seedboxes with relative safety. I think. IANAL!!

Giant Flaw in the Proxy Service Idea:
Any service provider you are using as a proxy (VPN, seedbox, VPS) can be subpoenaed for your information the same way that an ISP can. And if it's a Canadian provider, it's not even any different process than an ISP.

Possible Upsides
- In this case it looks like the movie company may have targeted Bell, Cogeco and Videotron customers only because they KNEW (maybe had meetings beforehand?) that the ISPs would just roll over. They are trying to set precedent, and they went for the easiest target, so any privacy provider would have put up too much fight to be worth it. For now.
- Proxy providers may put up a bigger fight than the ISPs in giving out the info. Their business is providing privacy, so if they think their is a reasonable chance of them successfully defending your info, they might view it as a marketing opportunity. Maybe. Or they could just roll over.
- The IP tracking companies might just ignore any non-Canadian IPs, even though they may be linked to a Canadian VPN, VPS, or seedbox. It may not be worth the trouble tracking down foreign IPs to see if they are really Canadian companies.
- Non-US, foreign VPNs would be harder to subpoena, even if they had Canadian servers, and would likely be ignored as not worth the effort.
- You could sign up for the service using a prepaid credit card and a fake name. This way they couldn't possibly get your info directly from the service provider, only your source IP, and only if they still have it on record (often the IP records aren't kept forever). Then they'd have to subpoena whoever owns that source IP (Rogers, Bell, TSI, etc.).

IP Blocklists
Things like PeerGuardian are a prudent, easy measure. But they don't really protect well. There is virtually nothing to prevent a tracking company from getting a new IP every hour if they wanted to avoid this.

VPN
It's slow. They sometimes have privacy policies stating they cooperate with DMCA and copyright claims anyways. And if it goes down while you are relying on it and you don't notice, you're screwed.

Seedboxes
Unlike VPN, this process is fast. As I mentioned above, they still have your info (if you didn't lie and use a prepaid credit card), and they still can be taken to court. But also unlike VPN, because these companies are very specialized (private BT is their whole business), they are far more likely to try and protect themselves from being forced to give out customer info.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


GyroCaptain

join:2008-08-01
reply to static416

Agree with others re: Usenet. Its really the best option as they have no way of knowing what you downloaded. Uploading is a different matter but then there are ways to get around that was well. VPN would leave me just as open as openet would since they could easily subpoena the vpn provider.

Downside to Usenet is...not as easy to see comments about posts unless you have a newsreader that wont crap out on you when you load up 1 million posts (i.e. alt.binaries.boneless).

Anyway, what happens to the taxes we pay on media if they can sue us here in Canada?


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON

said by GyroCaptain:

Anyway, what happens to the taxes we pay on media if they can sue us here in Canada?

Strictly speaking, that's given to the music companies, not the movie companies. So the movie companies are free to sue us all they want.

Doesn't mean they'll win though. We have a Privacy Act in Canada, which I'd argue Bell, Cogeco, and Videotron just violated, at least in spirit. Also, the grounds for suing people for thousands over a single movie has always been shaky, and there are recent precedents in the US and Britain showing that courts aren't putting up with it easily anymore.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
reply to static416

It is interesting that they targetted large ISPs. Those have lawyers by the thousands who could defend it if they wanted and cost the movie holders tons of money.

If the movie holders went after small ISPs, those might not have the money/resources to fight it and be forced to hand over the ID of the suspects.

However, going after a willing ISP like Videotron will scare all videotron customers who do the same downloading and thus have a greater impact (or so they think). Hit a small ISPs and you wont scare many people.

Videotron was first to have links with media. Quebecor has newspapers, music stores (aka: need to please hollywood to get CD/DVDs are low price) and at least 1 TV network (TVA, but at one point it also held TQS for short period). This ws before Quebecor got into Sun.

Cable companies that have TV networks know that they must be good buddies with MPAA if they want accesst to hollywood programming. Hollywood knows that and will likely target those.


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON

said by jfmezei:

It is interesting that they targetted large ISPs. Those have lawyers by the thousands who could defend it if they wanted and cost the movie holders tons of money.

After reading the Howard Knopf piece above, I wouldn't be surprised if they had many meetings with Bell, Videotron, and Cogeco first, to make sure they wouldn't put up a fight. There is probably an agreement that the ISPs cannot be held liable for their users. And then they just went to court as a formality, the whole thing went through in a couple days.

The ISPs handed over all the relevant information in less than two weeks! Comcast and Time Warner in the US said it would take months or years to give out that same type of information for every IP. So either the Canadian ISPs have a infinitely better computer system, or they began collecting this information a long time ago and the court portion was mostly for show and legality.

The ISPs probably HAD to go to court to show that they made an "attempt" to protect they customers privacy. Then they hand over all the info to Voltage, and Voltage sues everyone individually and the ISPs are not involved.

In this situation Voltage has successfully jumped the first hurdle of getting the names, that never happened before. Now they are going to have to fight the next battle, are these people actually liable for damages? And if so, how much?

Unless of course, someone manages to get the courts to rule that the personal information was given out in violation of the Privacy Act, at which point the scheme falls apart I'd imagine.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


Hyrules

join:2006-07-19
Gatineau, QC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Videotron
·ELECTRONICBOX
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reply to static416

The question still poses. Can you link an IP to a person ? I have 5 pc at home and a wireless network. Can i be sued legally ? What tell me that my wireless network wasn't hack and someone downloaded the movie ? What if I had some guest that day and someone downloaded a movie without me knowing. That's all question they gonna have to cope with. Do you know that WPA2 ( wireless security ) can be cracked in 15 minutes ? It's quite possible just google it. What if 1% of canada downloaded that movie ? That's 360 000 people. Collectivelly they could certainly find a way to debunk that case.


jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

1 recommendation

If sued, why not just buy the blue ray, show up in court, show the disc nd say that you downloaded the DRM free version because you can play it on any de ice in your home whereas the blue ray can only be played on the blue ray player. (if you are an apple fan your computers can't read blue ray).

Technically, you bougt he rights to view the movie by buying the blue ray. So the rights holders wouldn't be able to sue you.


technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2
reply to Hyrules

said by Hyrules:

Do you know that WPA2 ( wireless security ) can be cracked in 15 minutes ? It's quite possible just google it.

If you have really good wordlists then its possible for WPA2. But WEP which almost all bell users are using by default can be easily be done in a few mins.
But cable modem cloning is the biggest question IMO. Anyone can clone my modem and put it on a different node and use my bandwidth under my account and I won't even know about it unless I look at usage on my ISP's meter and see discrepancy which I can't cause I'm with teksavvy cable. Then what!


Hyrules

join:2006-07-19
Gatineau, QC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Videotron
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reply to static416

Good point ! I knew about that but didn't think about it. It's true and easy today to clone a modem mac address and download with it. Many are doing it. though if you get catched by your ISP you will mostlikely get banned but nicely done you can go unnoticed and download whatever you will on behalf of somebody else.


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to Hyrules

said by Hyrules:

The question still poses. Can you link an IP to a person ?

They are getting better at this, they don't necessarily assume guilt. But it can be used as a grounds for search and seizure.

But of course you're right. Anyone who's technically minded enough to participate in this forum knows that there are an infinite number of ways that your IP could show up there without you actually having downloaded anything. The trick is convincing a judge of that, a judge that's very likely less technically literate than you.

Doesn't matter anyways. So far the tactic has been to scare people into settling, not actually winning in court. If it looks like you are going to win in court, they just drop the suit and move on to another sucker.

After that, you'd have to counter-sue them, and win. Then win all the appeals all the way to the Supreme court to settle the issue.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23

Perhaps this practice should be brought to the competition bureau. The MAFIAA are doing everything to hurt any distribution medium which offers competition to their legacy distribution and drives prices down.

This may not be about lost revenues due to piracy, but more of a refusal to make their services more competitive and lower profit margins.


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to jfmezei

said by jfmezei:

Technically, you bougt he rights to view the movie by buying the blue ray. So the rights holders wouldn't be able to sue you.

Even if you could 100% you downloaded the DRM-free version only AFTER you bought the BluRay, and only because you wanted to watch it on your iPad, you'd still be guilty.

Copyright law is about copies, not content. It's kind of stupid, but that's how it works. You bought the right to a specific form-factor, a specific copy. That does not give you the right to make or obtain copies of that work in any other form. You just have rights to that BluRay, not the content on it.

Of course this is also retarded. Everyone makes tons of illegal copies of everything all the time. That's how computers work. They make copies of data.

That guy that copy and pasted in that blog post a few posts back? 100%, unequivocally guilty of copyright infringement.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog

Reimer

join:2006-08-14
Toronto, ON
reply to jfmezei

But this isn't about making copies for your personal use. This is BitTorrent where you're uploading while you download. Therefore you're sharing and distributing copyright material.


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to static416

For the record, things like format-shifting, time-shifting, and forum post-like stuff are all likely covered well in the new Conservative copyright bill. It's actually not all bad.

The big deal-breaker is the digital-locks issue. It'll be illegal to break them for any reason. So all a content producer has to do to cancel out all the good things in the entire bill, is just put the most basic copy-protection on something, and you can't exercise any of your rights. They could literally put a password on the DVD called PASSWORD, and that would likely be enough.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog


static416

join:2007-01-26
Toronto, ON
reply to Reimer

said by Reimer:

But this isn't about making copies for your personal use. This is BitTorrent where you're uploading while you download. Therefore you're sharing and distributing copyright material.

Right. But that's mostly just the argument they use to justify the higher penalties. Merely downloading is still illegal, it's just less intuitively evil so they don't prosecute it when easier targets are around.

And for 99% of people the uploading portion of bittorrent is merely a unintended side-effect. They don't actually WANT to upload, it's just built into the tech and the culture.
--
www.LaconicReply.com - Tech/photography/rant blog