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RawhideBlue Balls
join:2002-02-18
The Moon | reply to CitizenX9
Re: I will ALWAYS rip you off Mr. Michael Greene The thing that bothers me most about the music industries position is this. People are ripping cds and sharing the mp3s. Why is this happening, because the costs of cds are way to high. The price of a blank cd is like $.20 and im sure they can get them cheaper. The cost of equipment has come down and cd burners are now common place. The cost of distribution may be the only thing that hasnt changed since the early '90s. The argument that the music industry makes is that they are losing money. Ok, why are they losing money. They have raised the price of the cds they have for sale. It would only make since that the music industry find a new way to distribute there music and lower prices on cd distributed to wholesalers. They may lose some revenue from the sale of each cd, but most of us would probably start buying more cds and purchase music online if it where reasonably priced and available. Cds now cost $23 a piece. Lower that to around $10 a piece. Find a new distribution method(mp3's) online and sell them at a reasonable price say like $.50 a song or $3.50 for an album of songs that the purchaser has chosen. Will the music industry ever do anything like this. I doubt it. Would this help the music industry in the long run regain its profitability, most likely YES. I would probably buy more music if it where more affordable, but as it stands now I can get songs for free. Most of the songs out there are of poor quality anyways. As long as the music industry can produce a superior product for an affordable price then people would be more willing to buy music rather than download it from the net. Stop spending all that money on cd copy protection and just make them more affordable in the first place, so people wouldnt want to download poor quality mp3s. People would start buying the actual cds or purchase high quality mp3 from the music industries web distribution center. | |
| the cost of a CD is too high?
hello, i wonder how many of you here can think about economics.
lets think about what goes into the making of a cd
the cd itself
the design imprinted on it
the jewel case
the material included within the case
the people who designed the cd design
the people who designed the material in the case
the people who make the cd, and imprint it
the people who prepare and ship it
the people who deliver it to the stores
the people who stock the stores
the people who advertise so you know its in the stores
the people who sell it to you at the store
oh no! 15$ where can i find 15 dollars! thats almost what i smoke in the course of a day! its not fair!!
by your logic, the WHOLE world is RIPPING you off, because they dont sell you things at cost.
its a conspiracy, thats right, targeted at YOU
get a job.
-kwirl@comcast.net | |
| and i forgot to include the artists making the material, but then again, the people who post here mostly will hate them unless they waive their rights to money, and work at fast food stores living on mac and cheese while their "fans" enjoy the benefits of .50$ cd's.
yeah, you people live in the real world. | |
RawhideBlue Balls
join:2002-02-18
The Moon
| reply to kwirlkarphys
said by kwirlkarphys:
the cost of a CD is too high? -kwirl@comcast.net
You BET
said by kwirlkarphys:
lets think about what goes into the making of a cd
the cd itself
the design imprinted on it
the jewel case
the material included within the case
the people who designed the cd design
the people who designed the material in the case
the people who make the cd, and imprint it
the people who prepare and ship it
the people who deliver it to the stores
the people who stock the stores
the people who advertise so you know its in the stores
the people who sell it to you at the store
oh no! 15$ where can i find 15 dollars! thats almost what i smoke in the course of a day! its not fair!!
by your logic, the WHOLE world is RIPPING you off, because they dont sell you things at cost.
its a conspiracy, thats right, targeted at YOU
get a job.
-kwirl@comcast.net
I guess you failed to see my point. They need a new way to distribute this crap they are pushing. If they provide the songs online you can cut 95% of the cost you are talking about. Hell, for that matter of fact you can cut 100% of the costs you are talking about.
Think about it before you post stuff like this.
making of a cd (not needed as mp3 format)
Record it directly as mp3
the cd itself (not needed as mp3 format)
the design imprinted on it (not needed as mp3 format)
the jewel case (not needed as mp3 format)
the material included within the case (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who designed the cd design (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who designed the material in the case (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who make the cd, and imprint it (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who prepare and ship it (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who deliver it to the stores (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who stock the stores (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who advertise so you know its in the stores (not needed as mp3 format)
the people who sell it to you at the store (not needed as mp3 format)
What you will need is:
The music...
People to post the mp3s online...
People to deposit all the profits that roll in...
Oh yeah .... and one more thing. I never said anything about $.50 cds. You need to read a little better or decrease the screen resolution so the font appears larger. What I SAID was online songs ... SONGS ... SSOONNGGSS ... Just one song for 50 cents thats about 45 cents more than it will cost to produce the song provided its in mp3 format.
[text was edited by author 2002-03-01 00:34:31] | |
| reply to kwirlkarphys
Regarding the cost of producing a CD, one of my ex-coworkers used to have a band of his own. They sold their CDs at about $5 each. And these were not recordings made at their garage and then recorded using a consumer-level burner, but professionally recorded at the studio, complete with cover design containing a load of pictures, info on each member of the band, lyrics to all the songs and lots of other stuff (professionally designed too), and then professionally replicated as well. According to him, he still made quite a profit selling his stuff.
Perhaps you forgot to include the greed factor (that usually makes up 50-75% of the cost of a CD) from that list of yours...
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies... | |
| said by Pirate515:
Regarding the cost of producing a CD, one of my ex-coworkers used to have a band of his own. They sold their CDs at about $5 each. And these were not recordings made at their garage and then recorded using a consumer-level burner, but professionally recorded at the studio, complete with cover design containing a load of pictures, info on each member of the band, lyrics to all the songs and lots of other stuff (professionally designed too), and then professionally replicated as well. According to him, he still made quite a profit selling his stuff.
Perhaps you forgot to include the greed factor (that usually makes up 50-75% of the cost of a CD) from that list of yours...
So, if this band could do that why don't others? Why do they sign with major labels? Could it be because of the "greed" factor you mentioned?
[text was edited by author 2002-03-01 10:07:15]
[text was edited by author 2002-03-01 10:09:47] | |
| FYI, there actually are many other bands that do just that.
As for the greed factor, do you really think that artists are paid a lot more when they sign up with a label? If so, I am sorry to disappoint you, but what artists make are pennies compared to what labels pick up. And on top of that, they must give up copyrights to their own work. All their songs now belong to the label, and they could not republish them on their own, or else they'll face a huge lawsuit. Sounds like they are getting majorly screwed over to me.
On the other hand, if you are planning to become famous, going with a label is a good idea as you will never be able to promote yourself as well as they do. However, don't expect to be paid off in large amounts, the labels are not too eager to share the big bucks with you.
Speaking of my above-mentioned friend, his band did have an offer from a pretty famous label. They walked out the door as soon as they saw the contract. They chose to make slightly less but to retain their copyright, as fame was never their major goal.
BTW, did you ever wonder why so many artists do not renew their contracts with labels, and so many others eventually become actors or something else? I would not say that this is because of the big bucks that they made from their label.
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
[text was edited by author 2002-03-01 13:36:18] | |
| This is what we call a market demand 12 - 25 year olds are making history by telling the music industery, this is what we want, we want to be able to download the music and own it digitaly! We want it to be transferabble to cd, mp3 player or whatever. The CD eara is now DEAD!!!
wow, and my little sister thinks the things in the movie hackers is real. stop pretending you are some cyber hero, you are the reason people charge so much for CD's, to recognize profit over top of the cost of recovery of theft. you are too lazy to pay for things that the majority of us pay for. if you think 15 bucks for a cd is too much, get a job. if you think a band selling cd's for 5 bucks is a great way to make a living, then guess what? move on with your life.
most artists enjoy making music, but there are incentives that drive some of them to love creating the music, and i assure you, a lavish lifestyle is not a perk ANY artist wants to give up.
your idols who sell 5 dollar cd's would turn on you in an instant if they were good enough to make it big, but they probably arent, because they cater to obscure little third rate wannabes like you. tell me, did you even pay your friend for his 5 dollar album? ill bet you cried til you got it for free, didnt you?
creativity isnt cheap, and i have no problem financing the lifestyle of ANY artist who makes music i enjoy. as for you, well - super size it, and yes, i want fries with that.
-kwirl@comcast.net | |
 Kid A
join:2000-09-21
Nashville, TN | reply to kwirlkarphys
said by kwirlkarphys:
the cost of a CD is too high?
its a conspiracy, thats right, targeted at YOU
-kwirl@comcast.net
SHINY, ALUMINUM, PLASTIC,
AND DIGITAL
by Negativland
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Reproduction of this essay is strongly encouraged.
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So, why is that new "Oasis" CD so expensive?
In the early eighties, sales of vinyl, cassettes, turntables and cassette players were "flat". This means that sales were stable, not rising or falling. For the makers of all this hardware and software, that wasn't quite good enough. They needed a new angle. A new way to sell music and the stuff you play it on. Luckily, someone at the Phillips Corporation (owner of PolyGram Music and Island Records and one of the worlds top defense contractors) had the bright idea that it would be good for their stockholders and investors if they could get the music consuming public excited about buying music again by introducing a new format and a new machine to play it on (i.e. how can you convince that aging baby boomer to buy yet another copy of DEJA VU by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young when they already have one?)
Thus was born THE COMPACT DISC in all it's shiny, aluminum, plastic and digital glory. It's maximum playing time, about 75 minutes, was chosen because the president of the company wanted something that could play his favorite piece of music, Beethoven's 9th Symphony, all the way through without stopping.
Well, compact discs weren't as successful as they had hoped. For one thing, their price was too high. The higher price was blamed both on the fact that they were mostly being made in Japan and that they had a high defect rate, with approximately one out of every three discs being tossed out before even leaving the CD factory. Early on, the economics of this led to an industry wide decision to continue paying recording artists a royalty rate based on the sale price of vinyl instead of the higher sale price of compact discs. And nobody was buying those new CD players either, because they were just too darned expensive.
But then, in the spring of 1989, something wonderful happened for the music industry. Everything changed! Almost overnight, CD's were everywhere! Suddenly they were a huge success and suddenly it became almost impossible to get anything on vinyl at all..
This change must have occurred because it was what the consumer wanted.....right? We live in a market-driven economy and the market was demanding more compact discs.....right?
Wrong. What actually happened was this - a flexible return policy had always existed between record stores and the seven major distributors, i.e. stores could "buy" something from a distributor, and if it didn't sell, they could return it. This allowed stores to take more chances on new releases or on things they were not so familiar with, because if it didn't sell, they could always send it back. Well, in the spring of 1989 all seven major label distributors announced that they would no longer accept "returns" on vinyl and they also began deleting much of the vinyl versions of their back catalog. These actions literally forced record stores to stop carrying vinyl. They could not afford the financial risk of carrying those releases that were on vinyl because if they didn't sell they would be stuck with them. Very quickly almost all record stores had to convert to CD's. The net effect of this was that the consumer no longer had a choice because the choice had been made for us. High priced compact discs were being shoved down our throats, whether we knew it or liked it or not.
As we mentioned earlier, record labels were paying artists a royalty rate on sales of CD's based upon the $8.98 or $9.98 list price of vinyl (or achieved the same end result by using contractual tricks like "packaging deductions"). As CD's took over and the majors all acquired their own domestic CD pressing plants and the defect rate dropped to almost zero, the cost of manufacturing compact discs dropped dramatically as well. One would have expected the price of CD's to also drop and for the profits to now be split evenly and fairly with the musicians who were making all the music.
This, of course, never happened. CD prices have continued to rise to a now unbelievable $16.98 list price (soon to be $17.98!) while manufacturing costs have now dropped to less than it costs to manufacture a $9.98 vinyl release. A CD, with its plastic jewel box, printed booklet and tray card now costs a major label about 80 cents each to make (or less) and a small independent label between $1.50 and $2.50. Meaning that CD's should now cost the consumer less than their original prices over a decade ago, not more. But the music business got consumers used to the idea of paying the higher price and the labels got used to the idea of their higher profit margin, and record labels continue to this day to pay almost all artists a royalty rate as if they're selling CD's for the list price of vinyl. That extra 4 or 5 or 6 bucks goes right into the pockets of the record labels. It is not shared with musicians. And of course, we all had to go out and buy a CD player (which had mysteriously dropped to a more reasonable price) if we wanted to hear any of the music on this "popular" new format. So, all in all, it's no wonder that the record industry and stereo manufacturers loved the compact disc. In fact the following year (when our economy was in a recession) the music industry had its biggest profits, ever!
If any of this bothers you as much as it does us, then you might be wondering why you've never heard about any of this or why no anti-trust action was ever taken against major labels and distributors. The answer to this is quite simple. Most of the reporting on the inner workings of the record business comes from the music press and the music press is almost totally reliant on the advertising dollars and good will of the business that they're writing about. So, in the interest of not wanting to "rock the boat" or anger the folks who essentially bankroll their publishing ventures, this story would, and will continue to remain, unreported. And with the coming "popularity" of DVD, the music industry looks like it is ready to try the same tricks all over again.
-Negativland
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P.O. Box 7218
Olympia, WA 98507
fax 510 420 0469
Web site and e-mail - »www.negativland.com | |
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