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FIOSHD

join:2007-10-22
united state
reply to tnsprin

Re: [HD] FCC Rules on Verizon Access to MSG HD

said by tnsprin:

Unfortunately a stay is almost automatic if CV files. Hopefully the courts then reject the cases. But that is not as likely, and so the delays will continue while the courts schedules and hears arguments.

I'm not so sure about a stay being automatic. For a stay to be automatic CV would have to demonstrate that handing over MSG HD would cause them some sort of irreperable harm...the problem with that is making that argument would fly in the face of their primary argument that they are not gaining a competitive advantage. Of course, I'm no lawyer and rooting very hard for VZ in this fight so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I'm feeling about 60/40 we get it in the 30 days.....although who wants to bet that the signal is crap and we encounter all sorts of mysterious issues with the feed? CV will do ANYTHING.

skohly

join:2009-08-19
Township Of Washington, NJ
said by FIOSHD:

said by tnsprin:

Unfortunately a stay is almost automatic if CV files. Hopefully the courts then reject the cases. But that is not as likely, and so the delays will continue while the courts schedules and hears arguments.

I'm not so sure about a stay being automatic. For a stay to be automatic CV would have to demonstrate that handing over MSG HD would cause them some sort of irreperable harm...the problem with that is making that argument would fly in the face of their primary argument that they are not gaining a competitive advantage. Of course, I'm no lawyer and rooting very hard for VZ in this fight so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I'm feeling about 60/40 we get it in the 30 days.....although who wants to bet that the signal is crap and we encounter all sorts of mysterious issues with the feed? CV will do ANYTHING.

Makes sense on all points

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to brownk
I predict the most likely path will be for CV to simply ignore the ruling and force the FCC's hand.

Its not like the FCC can physically force the MSG-HD connection. The FCC has no power to enforce its own rules, except to get a court to make a judgement ( which can be appealed all the way to the supreme court )

So in 27 more days, ATT/Verizon will whine about no HD feed and CV will offer them some cheese to go with the whine

robjlevin

join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
reply to Greg2600
said by Greg2600:

whether a cable provider owning that programming can withhold it as exclusive.

It's NOT AN EXCLUSIVE! They provide that feed to every other cable company as well as DirecTV. How in the world can they claim exclusivity?

robjlevin

join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
reply to guppy_fish
Just out of curiosity, are you still sticking to the NEVER ON FiOS stand or are you wavering a bit on that?


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to guppy_fish
said by Calltoclaude :

File this under FWIW...I have a family member that works for CV in the administration and they know they ultimately will have to turn it over. They are 50-50 on whether they will grant a stay if they appeal, but they pretty much know they lost this battle and have to give up the HD feeds.

Again, FWIW.

Eventually is the key there, that's what I feel too, but it's going to be awhile more.

said by robjlevin:

said by Greg2600:

whether a cable provider owning that programming can withhold it as exclusive.

It's NOT AN EXCLUSIVE! They provide that feed to every other cable company as well as DirecTV. How in the world can they claim exclusivity?

Of course, Cablevision talks out of both sides of its mouth. They have no credibility on this matter.

said by guppy_fish:

I predict the most likely path will be for CV to simply ignore the ruling and force the FCC's hand.

Its not like the FCC can physically force the MSG-HD connection. The FCC has no power to enforce its own rules, except to get a court to make a judgement ( which can be appealed all the way to the supreme court )

So in 27 more days, ATT/Verizon will whine about no HD feed and CV will offer them some cheese to go with the whine

I think FCC can fine them, not like CV is going to feel that in the wallet.


ROCKnROLD

@verizon.net
reply to FIOSHD
It seems to me (based only on logic, not knowledge of law that applies) that due to the FCC's ruling that the court should order CV to provide the MSG HD feed to Fios while they make their inevitably futile appeals. Dolan (with silver spoon in mouth) will spend anything in legal fees (passing them onto his customers) to delay but considering his track record in court he has ZERO chance to win.

PaulyIzGod

join:2008-02-18
Tampa, FL
Verizon wouldn't do that because if by some chance CV won, and Verizon then had to take the channel away from it's customers would have more people even more mad. So they would wait.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to robjlevin
said by robjlevin:

Just out of curiosity, are you still sticking to the NEVER ON FiOS stand or are you wavering a bit on that?

I still think never, I was just suggesting that at the end of the supposed 30 day window CV will flip the FCC the bird and tell them to get bent

The FCC has no enforcement mechanism to bear in this case, its like getting speeding tickets from the local town council, they can fine them from now till forever, without a means to collect, its just headlines

CV is being really smart here ( business wise ), instead of them filing a court action, they will make the FCC take them to court ( more delays ) to attempt to enforce the rulings


frankpf3
Verizon Fios

join:2007-08-09
Huntington Station, NY
kudos:1
reply to brownk
So how can we find out if and when Verizon and Cablevision begin negotiating a price for MSG HD?

JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
reply to guppy_fish
I can't disagree with you more on this. CV played the same games with their Rainbow stations... and again with MSG SD. In both cases Verizon went to the FCC who forced the issue. No courts were involved. Second, CV DID file a court action on this, alleging that the FCC didn't have the authority to do this (the loophole is a construct of Congress, and without another act of Congress, the argument went, the FCC didn't have the right to close the loophole). The argument was rejected by the court, and by the appeals court. In other words, the FCC has already won this in court. If CV wants to push it further THEY have to petition the supreme court. As far as the FCC is concerned, their position has been vindicated in court. Absent action by the supreme court, this has been settled. If CV doesn't comply they will be in violation of the law. What the fine is... not sure... but I can't imagine they want to get into a pissing contest with the FCC.

robjlevin

join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
Cablevision only recognizes the FCC's authority when a programmer withholds programming from them.


ROCKnROLD

@verizon.net
reply to JPL
Thanks JPL. That's the most sound argument in this entire thread. It's basically over for Dolan in this particular fight. He can't take his ball and go home to daddy. Nor can he delay forever. CV will concede or get slapped but good....


lcrngrs

@verizon.net
reply to MisterBill
I waited for 2 years before making the switch with the hopes of verizon getting msghd. I made the switch after deciding that faster response time, better picture quality and more hd channels were enough to switch. If cable vision felt that having msghd wasn't a bargaining chip why spend millions of dollars telling us about being the only cable company with all major sports teams in HD? Now that IMG 1.9 is out, I'm in my glory.


jetguy28

@verizon.net
It took the FCC long enough to rule on this. It is ridiculous we all know the Dolan's history. Enough is Enough, Chuck should give up and crawl back into his hole. CV is pissed Verizon got into the TV business but CV got into the phone business. Who knows what will happen but I could see Chuckie delaying this as long as he can. The fans are the losers but Chuckie could care less about hte fans judging how he runs the Knicks and the Rangers.

nlk10010

join:2007-06-27
Great Neck, NY
I don't know what the rush is. Even if CV offered MSG-HD to FIOS tomorrow, FIOS isn't adding HD channels. So my understanding is we wouldn't be able to see it anyway for, well, I don't know how long (unless, of course, the situation is different with "local" channels). How embarrassing would it be for Verizon to have MSG-HD available to it but not have the necessary space?

Watch it, Verizon, don't wish for something or you just may get it!

robjlevin

join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
Finding room for MSG and MSG+ in HD is the last thing VZ is worried about. You can be sure those channels would be added in a heartbeat once they're made available.

nlk10010

join:2007-06-27
Great Neck, NY
Ah, so you're saying Verizon has space for new HD but it would only be made available for certain additions. OK, that seems odd but I don't know much about the situation, so I'll take your word for it. Thanks.


jetguy28

@verizon.net
reply to nlk10010
They have the room for those channels. Those channels have been left open for years. It would be 578-579-580-581, They fought this fight for so long why would you think that Verizon would not be in a rush to add MSG? They carry 4 NY sports teams.

JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
I agree that they should have room for MSG HD - but not for the reason you state. Channel slots are not the same as QAM slots. The question is whether they have the QAM space left in the NY market to add these channels? I think they probably reserved that space, but you can't base that on channel positions.


nascar

join:2000-02-28
Verona, NJ
kudos:3
reply to brownk
They better have room. MSG's HD means plenty of happy current and future FiOS customers.


icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ
reply to brownk
I remember someone saying that on each VHO FiOS does reserve QAM space for the Regional Sports Networks.
It should be noted that there is actually 4 feeds.
MSG, MSG2, MSG+ and MSG +2.
When we eventually get MSG HD and MSG + HD will MSG 2 HD and MSG + 2 HD be included?


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
said by icemannyr1:

I remember someone saying that on each VHO FiOS does reserve QAM space for the Regional Sports Networks.
It should be noted that there is actually 4 feeds.
MSG, MSG2, MSG+ and MSG +2.
When we eventually get MSG HD and MSG + HD will MSG 2 HD and MSG + 2 HD be included?

I'd bet my left nut that Verizon has room for the 4 MSG HD feeds. They are not that stupid.
Expand your moderator at work

tnsprin

join:2003-07-23
Bradenton, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to skohly

Re: [HD] FCC Rules on Verizon Access to MSG HD

said by skohly:

said by FIOSHD:

said by tnsprin:

Unfortunately a stay is almost automatic if CV files. Hopefully the courts then reject the cases. But that is not as likely, and so the delays will continue while the courts schedules and hears arguments.

I'm not so sure about a stay being automatic. For a stay to be automatic CV would have to demonstrate that handing over MSG HD would cause them some sort of irreperable harm...the problem with that is making that argument would fly in the face of their primary argument that they are not gaining a competitive advantage. Of course, I'm no lawyer and rooting very hard for VZ in this fight so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I'm feeling about 60/40 we get it in the 30 days.....although who wants to bet that the signal is crap and we encounter all sorts of mysterious issues with the feed? CV will do ANYTHING.

Makes sense on all points

Temporary stays are almost always automatically granted if they don't immediately reject the case. The courts often need a little time to decide if thetr are any grounds to hear an appeal based on the filing. Of course the stays end if they later reject hearing the appeal.

robjlevin

join:2002-10-30
Millington, NJ
reply to icemannyr1
The overflow HD games are only on Cablevision. They are not made available to anyone else and I wouldn't count on them being made available. They are not full time channels.


matcarl
Premium
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY
said by robjlevin:

The overflow HD games are only on Cablevision. They are not made available to anyone else and I wouldn't count on them being made available. They are not full time channels.

Verizon already carries the SD overflow channels. When nothing extra is on they just simulcast the regular channels. Don't know what they would do with HD

nyranger74

join:2011-09-25
Plainview, NY
There is no MSG2 HD or MSG+2 HD

nysports4evr
Premium
join:2010-01-23
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by nyranger74:

There is no MSG2 HD or MSG+2 HD

Pretty sure there is... »www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t ··· 97174#14


icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ

1 edit
reply to brownk
You are correct that there is no full time MSG2 and MSG+2 in HD but Cablevision does have two channels called iO Sports and iO Sports2 that do show the games from MSG2 and MSG+ 2 in HD.