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ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

all I hear is...

WHAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA we have to spend money to fix or borked equipment.


keyboards

join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
said by ArrayList:

WHAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA we have to spend money to fix or borked equipment.

There is nothing wrong with anyone's equipment. Light Squared wants to use spectrum that impinges on high accuracy GPS systems. These systems are integral to air safety as well as our military (all of which had systems that were designed to the standards that Light Squared now wants to infringe on).

As a more technical explanation, because of the spread spectrum nature of the signals, the "skirts" now can intersect if Light Squared does not provide a sharp enough filter on their transmission. Their "solution" is to force a front end filter on the high precision GPS receivers rather than controlling their own power spectrum AND expect the existing device owners / manufacturers to foot the bill.
--
REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to ArrayList
LightSquared? It seems to be doing the most whining. Maybe like a 2-yr old it hopes that if it cries enough it will get its way.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to keyboards
light squared wants to use spectrum that they paid for.


Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY
said by ArrayList:

light squared wants to use spectrum that they paid for.

Then lightsquared should sue them for unlicensed use of their spectrum
--
Semper Fi


n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
reply to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

light squared wants to use spectrum that they paid for.

They didn't pay for it. SkyTerra got it for free and LightSquared bought them out. What LightSquared really wants, according to industry analysts, is a frequency swap for more valuable spectrum WITHOUT having to pay for it. They are basically holding GPS hostage in the hopes the government will pay them off with frequencies that could otherwise be auctioned off.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by n2jtx:

What LightSquared really wants, according to industry analysts, is a frequency swap for more valuable spectrum WITHOUT having to pay for it.

Given the FCC's bungling of this whole Charlie Foxtrot, that's exactly what needs to happen. Swap spectrum, eliminate/mitigate the interference issues, and most everyone is happy.

xenophon

join:2007-09-17
reply to openbox9
It's seems to be justified though. LS bought the spectrum so they have a right to use it. The GPS industry is bleeding into their space. The FCC is partly at fault for allowing LS to buy it but the GPS industry was apparently warned about bleeding into that spectrum.

The GPS industry needs to fix this whether LS exists or not because they are wasting a lot of valuable spectrum for a simple function that doesn't need much data.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to ArrayList
LightSquared wants to use those frequencies -originally intended for use from space (ie. low power when actually received on Earth) - in a way that they were NEVER intended to be used (ie. high power terrestrial transmissions) which will overpower the receivers on ground-based GPS systems.

If these frequencies are used as originally intended there would be NO interference with ground-based GPS as the GPS receivers are able to filter out the low-power 'noise' in those frequency bands.

What LightSquared is proposing is like a 5 milliwatt baby crib monitoring radio with a 50' range suddenly boosting it's output to 100KW and clobbering all receivers within a 100 mile radius.

Do you ever wonder why AM or FM radio stations are separated by the amounts they are on the radio dial? It's because of interference. Ditto with GPS frequencies and those that LightSquared got their hands on. It's the FCC that screwed up here by letting the GPS guard bands get overrun by LightSquared's shift to high power terrestrial use. Had LightSquared stuck to space-based use of these frequencies, we would not be having this conversation


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to xenophon
The GPS industry is not "bleeding into" anything. Receivers don't bleed.

Lightsquared is trying to fit a slightly oval peg into a round hole. They figure if they hit it hard enough it will go through.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

LightSquared? It seems to be doing the most whining. Maybe like a 2-yr old it hopes that if it cries enough it will get its way.

Of course LightSquared is whining, it bought political influence to get the rules changed in the middle of the game but never counted on all this blowback. The real answer is for those in our government to be a lot more honest, stop selling influence and to stop favoring their political friends. If we didn't have government corruption we wouldn't have problems like Solyndra, LightSquared, etc.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to xenophon
I don't believe GPS receivers are bleeding anything. They're receivers. The problem is that LightSquared's frequencies allocated by the FCC (which is wholly at fault in this situation IMO) interfere with weak signal GPS transmissions that have been in use for decades. A problem didn't exist until the FCC waived use of frequencies intended to be broadcast from thousands of miles away for terrestrial use.

PDXPLT

join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
reply to keyboards

Their "solution" is to force a front end filter on the high precision GPS receivers rather than controlling their own power spectrum AND expect the existing device owners / manufacturers to foot the bill.

Their solution is a reasonable one; i.e., ask the GPS industry to design their receivers to only be sensitive to signals allocated to the GPS band, and filter out signals outside that band. It's feasible, just not as cheap as whining about having to deploy proper equipment instead, or purchasing the spectrum from Lightsquared.

Donut

join:2005-06-27
Romulus, MI
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
reply to keyboards
I was under the impression our government could do anything when it comes to national security. Like tell Light Square to go hang themselves. Because Interfering with Air Safety and Military Traffic would be bad for national security.
--
Mr. Donut

rlharris02

join:2009-02-06
reply to fifty nine
Well you are just playing a word game.

GPS devices today LOOK into LS'sspectrum holdings, that is what causes the GPS issues.

When LS turned on there network for tested, those devices could not look into LS's spectrum in turn they did not work.


GeekJedi
RF is Good For You
Premium
join:2001-06-21
Mukwonago, WI
Actually, you're half wrong.

GPS receivers today LOOK into LS's spectrum holdings which, if LS used they way it was allocated to be used, would not pose a problem.

LS wants to use the spectrum in a way it was not intended to be used. That does pose a problem, and therefore LS should be required to mitigate that problem to everyone's satisfaction, or come up with a new business plan to use the spectrum the way it was originally intended to be used.

That's the point that people just aren't seeming to understand here. They are free to use the spectrum they're leasing AS IT WAS ALLOCATED. There would be no lawsuits or court battles. They'd be on their way doing their thing.

The problem here is that they bought the rights to the spectrum and then realized that they couldn't build a business around it. Now they expect everyone else to accomodate them so they can make money.

It just doesn't work that way.
--
The goal of the broadcast engineer is to get all the meters on the transmitter to go as far to the right as possible!!

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
reply to n2jtx
said by n2jtx:

said by ArrayList:

light squared wants to use spectrum that they paid for.

They didn't pay for it. SkyTerra got it for free and LightSquared bought them out. What LightSquared really wants, according to industry analysts, is a frequency swap for more valuable spectrum WITHOUT having to pay for it. They are basically holding GPS hostage in the hopes the government will pay them off with frequencies that could otherwise be auctioned off.

I am COMPLETELY fine with that. For once in my life I agree with openbox. How many subsidies have AT&T and Verizon benefited from? Let's subsidize a competitor for once.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
reply to Donut
said by Donut:

I was under the impression our government could do anything when it comes to national security. Like tell Light Square to go hang themselves. Because Interfering with Air Safety and Military Traffic would be bad for national security.

LS probably wants a spectrum swap.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

said by n2jtx:

What LightSquared really wants, according to industry analysts, is a frequency swap for more valuable spectrum WITHOUT having to pay for it.

Given the FCC's bungling of this whole Charlie Foxtrot, that's exactly what needs to happen. Swap spectrum, eliminate/mitigate the interference issues, and most everyone is happy.

No way.
Lightsquare originally intended to offer only satellite broadband. They took a gamble to try and convert satellite only spectrum for ground based use and lost.

Lightsquared needs to buy ground based spectrum like everyone else instead of trying to screw americans out of our GPS network that we have been paying for and building since the 70s.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44
reply to PDXPLT
Red shifted satellite GPS signals move 25 mhz into the satellite only spectrum lightsquared wants to use.
The reason the spectrum is satellite only is it is a buffer for GPS and other weak satellite signals will not jam GPS.
Using that spectrum as satellite only is already the compromise with GPS.
Trying to use it for powerful ground transmitters will jam the red shifted GPS signals.

Also GPS is owned by the US tax payers we have been paying for it since the 70s. The GPS industry makes devices for us to use the GPS that we all own.
The GPS industry purposely designed their equipment to listen to the spectrum lightsquared wants to use to pick up the red shifted GPS signals.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to r81984
I'd agree with you except that the FCC waived LightSquared's use of the spectrum for terrestrial use. LightSquared's poor engineering efforts and the FCC's negligent oversight brought this issue about.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

For once in my life I agree with openbox.

Hah! I didn't see that one coming

Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

light squared wants to use spectrum that they paid for.

I'm quite sure that they do.

I also have met a lot of thieves in my life that want to use the stolen goods that they paid other thieves for. You are suggesting that we allow them to do so.

Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to n2jtx
Oddly enough, although I find this absolutely abhorrent (holding GPS hostage until a spectrum swap that fixes this issue), I find it absolutely abhorrent on a level many orders of magnitude lower than I find it absolutely abhorrent that Lightsquared would be allowed to impinge on GPS spectrum as they are insisting they have a right to do (which is bogus). It is a far better compromise among thieves and regarding the citizens for Lightsquared to get a spectrum swap away from the GPS-interfering frequencies than it is for them to simply obliterate GPS. I'm hoping this spectrum swap idea is the relief valve of the high-pressure crap they are doing.

Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

I'd agree with you except that the FCC waived LightSquared's use of the spectrum for terrestrial use. LightSquared's poor engineering efforts and the FCC's negligent oversight brought this issue about.

Yes, that is the oft-quoted public storyline. I find it disgusting that the follow up to that pair of stinky errors is the insistence that they be allowed to go through with it. They messed up, and need to retract. Can't businessmen and politicians find a way to make mends without continuing the garbage? That's why some of us are allowing the "spectrum swap" idea as a (unfair to legitimate users like other cell companies that bought at auction) solution, since it at least solves the main issue (GPS interference). After that, the damn phone companies can rowl in the mud for all I care to even that score, as long as they don't mess up GPS while they're duking it out.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE
·Comcast
reply to Ulmo
said by Ulmo:

said by ArrayList:

light squared wants to use spectrum that they paid for.

I'm quite sure that they do.

I also have met a lot of thieves in my life that want to use the stolen goods that they paid other thieves for. You are suggesting that we allow them to do so.

I'm really lost how you can call them thieves? they paid for the rights to the spectrum. They have every right to use it.