dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
11

jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA

jvmorris to J E F F4

MVM

to J E F F4

Re: Traffic Circles

Okay, the line drawing helps.

Now, I'm not a traffic engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems to me that the cross-walks (on a 45 MPH roadway no less) are far too close to the roundabout itself. Of course, it's built now and I doubt they're going to be too enthusiastic about moving the crosswalks further back from the roundabout.

Still, are you saying that the speed limits are 45 MPH even during the beginning and end of school time intervals? As in the States, I would have timed signals (even with the traffic circle) bringing the speed down to 25 (30, max) during school time -- maybe a timed set of signals that only flash YELLOW during the beginning and end of school days. And there would be signs indicating it was a school crossing, possibly with a "STOP SHORT OF CROSSWALKS WHEN OCCUPIED" type of warning. This should not markedly break the flow of traffic most of the time. I have seen situations in which a duly authorized crossing guard (the old English lollipop ladies, I believe) could actually change the signal from yellow to RED if a large number of people were waiting to cross.

I'm curious to hear how this works out. I've an intersection immediately behind my house in Virginia that is used by my grand-daughter now. It crosses an arterial roadway with a 35 MPH speed limit at a T-junction with a (always) 25 MPH roadway that then runs in front of the elementary school about 200 meters further down the smaller road. There is a stop sign on the smaller road, but only timed flashing School Zone lights on the arterial during the beginning/end of the school day. When the elementary school is beginning/ending, there's normally a crossing guard there to stop traffic flow if necessary (especially for the elementary school kids), but the middle school and high school kids that use the same crosswalk are pretty much on their own. This intersection is going to get MUCH busier in about two years when the main arterial will lead directly to a new subway station currently under construction. A traffic circle was one solution being considered.

Let's wait for a Brit to comment; my exposure is again quite limited to how they'd address this issue.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

I'll try to get out this week and take some pictures. As mentioned, this is a high school and not elementary, so the 20KPH (13MPH) doesn't seem to apply..but as I said, it would have defeated the purpose of a roundabout. They do have some portable signage up asking motorists to slow down...I will none the less keep it updated, there was a Facebook event regarding it today, not sure how that went.
J E F F4

J E F F4 to jvmorris

Premium Member

to jvmorris
Well, more stuff on it today...emergency council meetings, etc. One suggestion would be to hire crossing guards for this particular spot. (unusual for a high school) Good idea, got shot down by the Ministry of Transportation within minutes (Ontario Government) since laws prohibit crossing guards on high speed roads. Also, the girl that was hit was following proper procedure, and the government employee (in transportation, none-the-less) has been charged with careless driving. They also want to reduce traffic speed to 50KPH (about 31MPH) immediately, but that itself will take time.

Having said that, I noticed a fatal design flaw when going by it today. We have several mid-street crossings in the city, and generally, in the middle of the road, is a small pedestrian island, which is protected thick railings...at this roundabout, the pedestrian islands have no protection. This is alarming since the road itself is so fast, and being that the southbound lanes of Homer Watson go downhill..I can see in the winter or during a rain storm a car hydroplaning and smashing into a group of kids. They need something thick there that damages cars and trucks that will hit it rather than running over people.

PC Doc 54
aka fcapes
Premium Member
join:2000-10-28
Alamogordo, NM

PC Doc 54

Premium Member

I'm amazed no one has mentioned this yet, but why would something like this be built (especially so close to a school) without also building either a pedestrian footbridge across the roads, or a tunnel going under them, so that the road can be crossed completely safely.

I live in New York now where traffic circles are not very common, but I originated from Bracknell, Berkshire ... which is roundabout city!

If anyone here knows Bracknell, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember any stretch of busy road there that couldn't be crossed by either going under the highway or over it.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

said by PC Doc 54:

I'm amazed no one has mentioned this yet, but why would something like this be built (especially so close to a school) without also building either a pedestrian footbridge across the roads, or a tunnel going under them, so that the road can be crossed completely safely.

^^^^^^^

This is what they are asking...why wasn't a foot bridge (or tunnel) built for it. They (Catholic School board and other concerted users) want one built right now.

The government claims it would be to costly to do it now. (about $2 million). That said, the point out that a footbridge was built over "The 401" (major highway in Ontario) to connect Kitchener to Cambridge and it sees less traffic in a year than the traffic circle receives in a day. (about 5,000 crossings)