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itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Spork35

Re: Dyson: upright vs canister?

said by Spork35:

Like everything it depends on what level of 'clean' you want to achieve. The Dyson is a step above anything else in what it can do for you. If a mid quality 'clean' is satisfactory for you then by all means dumpster dive for gold. We won't go back to a normal vacuum again after trying a Dyson. If you want to come up to Massachusetts we'll give you our old vacuum which is still a great cyclonic Hoover but it fails to achieve the 'clean' we want.

Again, old vs new. Clean the hoses, replace all the filters (even bagless have filters) and put a new belt on the power head. I'd bet it will pick up stuff your Dyson misses.

Or try this one. Go to Wal Mart, buy the cheapest POS you can find. Take it home. Vacuum with your Dyson. Go over it with the POS. I'll be it will also pick up stuff the Dyson left behind.

Don't believe me? From this page:
»www.1377731.com/museum/

quote:
And speaking of sneaky vacuum cleaner salesman tricks (and there were many), here's a classic gimmick that many people [still] fall for: The salesman, ever concerned for the good health and sound hygiene of his prospective customers, would ask the housewife to carefully vacuum a portion of her carpet with her old [and he would emphasize the word “old”] vacuum cleaner.

He would then make a sly comment along the lines of, “I’ll bet you think your carpet is clean now, Mrs. Jones, don’t you. After all, you just used YOUR vacuum cleaner on it.” Of course she would agree, not wanting to concede the possibility that her present sweeper was inferior.

Then he would grandly shove her old cleaner aside and set-to vacuuming the same spot with his sparkling new cleaner. He’d open the dirt-bag and dump the contents onto the rug — that she had just cleaned — commenting about how much dirt her old vacuum had left behind.

This is a terrific sales technique; and one that sold many a new cleaner! Only thing is, the same process would also work in reverse: If the salesman vacuumed first with the machine he was demonstrating, and the housewife then used hers afterward, she, too, would find dirt in her machine. It’s the simple physics of the fact that one pass of vacuuming will not remove all the dirt from a carpet, no matter how carefully the chore is carried out. Some dirt will always remain behind!
Here's another one:
»www.businessknowhow.com/marketin···ysec.htm

In the end as long as you enjoy the vac that's all that matters (if enjoying a vac is possible ).


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA

4 edits

1 recommendation

said by itguy05:

Again, old vs new. Clean the hoses, replace all the filters (even bagless have filters) and put a new belt on the power head.

I spend 4 hours breaking it down then replaced the belt and cleaned everything last year. It use to get a new air filter and HEPA filter every year. It doesn't have the power of a Dyson. When you look at the CFM's Dyson is the leader. I did the vacuum testing for myself. I didn't buy the hype behind Dyson but the wife wanted one anyways. I tested it very methodically for 2 days. I was trying to prove it worked the same as the old one so we could send it back to get the $400 back for something else like a new PC. We also have an old POS vacuum for a spare which was used in the testing as well as a hand-held dustbuster for shits.

I came to this conclusion. As long as there's someone pushing a great product like a Dyson there will always be someone trying to push the fact it's crap. I was the later but became the former after seeing it for myself.

I do love the off the wall mom/pop websites you posted trying to prove a non-existent point though. Try to post some reputable sites next time.

Edit: For testing the carpet was vacuumed 4 times with each vacuum. North to South, South to North, East to West, then West to East. 4 passes was plenty to get the idea of which vacuum was the best IMHO. When the Dyson made 1 pass after the Hoover's 4 passes it almost filled up the Dyson's container. The Hoover's container was about full after 4 passes. I couldn't tell how much was in the POS vacuum as it had a bag but the results were the same with the POS vacuum and the Hoover. The Dustbuster didn't get much but then again I didn't expect it would. It's more of a mess tool then a 'cleaning' tool.

--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
said by Spork35:

I came to this conclusion. As long as there's someone pushing a great product like a Dyson there will always be someone trying to push the fact it's crap. I was the later but became the former after seeing it for myself.

As long as you are happy that's all that matters. I wouldn't call Dyson great as there are plenty of vacs that are better.

Did you try your testing with a new vacuum? Curious as there are also seals that can deteriorate after time, especially in a canister vac.

quote:
I do love the off the wall mom/pop websites you posted trying to prove a non-existent point though. Try to post some reputable sites next time.
What non existent point? Google Vacuum Salesman Tricks and you too can read all about it. I doubt any "real name brand website" will post the tricks they use to sell a vacuum.


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
said by itguy05:

Did you try your testing with a new vacuum? Curious as there are also seals that can deteriorate after time, especially in a canister vac.

The Hoover isn't even 5 years old and was like $250 originally. If it goes down that much over that course of time it's not worth the price. I've not tested a Miele but we aren't fans of bags either. Dyson and Miele are the leaders in vacuums. Like most things in life you get what you pay for. At $400 the Dyson offered the best bang for the buck between Miele and Dyson. The other brands were in the $250-350 range so it wasn't a hard sell to grab a Dyson for a few bucks more especially when it came with more attachments and a better warranty.

said by itguy05:

I doubt any "real name brand website" will post the tricks they use to sell a vacuum.

Consumer reports doesn't sell anything. CNet doesn't sell anything. Tons of other sites dedicated to reviews and info that are large and well respected. I don't do cloak and dagger stuff myself.
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
reply to TigerLord
This and many other reasons are why I'm glad I have hardwood floors; Shop Vac the large stuff up, then use the wet Swifer for the rest.

As far as the Dyson goes, they look impressive, but their reliability is questionable. You can also find better vaccums for less money.


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to TigerLord
I've decided to go with Miele for four reasons:

1) ConsumerReport did not like the Dysons much, and the user reviews are just as polarized there as they are on Amazon or other popular sites. CR basically said the Dyson were overpriced vs their performance ratio (you pay for the PR)

2) The Miele are well reviewed on CR, the user reviews are mostly positive both on CR and other review sites

3) The Miele vacuums are "modular." Let me explain. The Miele basically have a few series of canisters they call S4, S5, S7, etc... then within each category, you'd get the S4281, S4921, S4019, S5351, S591, etc... basically, within each series of canister you get the exact same performance. The only thing that changes from model numbers within the same series is the color of the canister and the attachments that come with them. In that sense, it's a great money saver because where I am going I will only have hardwood floors. So I can dispense of any carpet attachments and save a few hundred dollars, and get their best hardwood attachment instead. If I move in a few years, I can just buy a new attachment if I ever have carpets.

For each category of attachment (hard floor and carpet) they have various attachments ranging in price and quality. For instance, the SEB- 236 is their best carpet attachment with an electronic brush head, but it's 330$... I'll only get their widest hard floor attachment instead, the SBB-400, thus saving 330$ for something I will never use in the short future.

4) They have a better warranty, is easier to get serviced in my area and they seem to be better engineered (though the ol' German engineering motto is no longer what it used to be).

The Miele S5 ranked in at #2 with 71 points, just under a Kenmore Intuition in #1 with 72 points. The Miele is also twice the price, but you get twice the power. It's only worth it if you like your "clean" to be VERY clean, which I do like.
Expand your moderator at work


tmh

@verizon.net
reply to TigerLord

Re: Dyson: upright vs canister?

I think Dysons are a solution to a non-existent problem.

"Doesn't lose suction". Well, how much suction do you need? Enough to pull the carpet off the floor? The brush does most of the work loosening the dirt. After that, it doesn't take a lot to lift it off the floor. I seriously doubt even a Dyson will work well without a functioning brush roller.

I've switched from bagged to bagless, and to bagged again for the reasons already listed: small capacity, dust flying everywhere, filters that actually trap more dust than the vortex thingie.

My current vacuum is an Oreck. That's a well designed machine. Very light and does a good job. When its full, I throw away the bag and I'm done.


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

2 recommendations

reply to TigerLord
Go to Walmart, buy one of these: »www.walmart.com/ip/Bissell-Power···11039508

In 9-12 months, put it out at the curb and go buy another one.

In 5 years you'll still have a vacuum that's less than a year old and works great, for --
When the zombies come, he will be waiting.


iknow

@optonline.net
reply to cdru
some vacuums use a stepper motor sometimes called a digital motor, but not this one. all this one needed was this. »www.vacuum-direct.com/dyson-dc17-switch.aspx which fits many models. they probably named it a "control board" because they had no idea of the proper term, or just wanted to make it sound sophisticated so they could charge a lot for it..

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
reply to SparkChaser
I have an Oreck which I brought from the home I sold in South Florida and am not particularly happy with it. It spends most of the time in the second floor closet. It works best on very low pile carped or bare floor. There is no height adjustment for pile height. The model I have has two speeds. Bag seems to clog up rapidly if fine dust is picked up.

I recently had carpet replaced in our master bedroom. The carpet installer used a bagless Eureka upright and swears by it. It has a larger capacity dirt cup then our Bissell bagless upright which we use on the first floor. The Bissell has a pile adjustment which is very handy. The only complaint I have about the Bissell is how difficult it is to clean the filters. According to the carpet installer the filters in the Eureka are much easier to clean than the filters in the Bissell.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to IIIBradIII
said by IIIBradIII:

Check Consumer Reports vacuum ratings before buying - they didn't seem too impressed with the Dysons.

We're quite happy with our Dyson Ball.
--
Oh YES! let me drop everything i'm doing regardless of who it affects to deal with your petty little problem!


Jan Janowski
Premium
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
reply to TigerLord
We have a Dyson Animal upright and have used it for years.... (5?)

So far, it works great.. and cleans beautiful...
--
Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


emk1028
Premium
join:2006-04-23
Douglassville, PA
reply to TigerLord
I have a refurb Dyson dc07 I purchased from Woot 4 years ago and no problems, and I still love it.
Check out »www.woot.com/ today 11/12.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
Yes -- Great deal on Woot for the Dyson Ball DC25!


Hiker
Zeus
Premium
join:2002-10-27
Lebanon, NJ
kudos:1
reply to TigerLord
I'm have the Dyson D25 Animal for 1.5 years now and it is very good. Expensive but very good. Time will tell how long its goodness lasts...


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

Yes -- Great deal on Woot for the Dyson Ball DC25!

Not really a good deal on Woot for the DC25. Same thing from ABC Warehouse is about $20 cheaper.
»www.abcvacuumwarehouse.com/vacde···BID=2606
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
How do you consider the ABC Warehouse price of $330 to be $20 cheaper than the Woot deal of $250?


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
said by robbin:

How do you consider the ABC Warehouse price of $330 to be $20 cheaper than the Woot deal of $250?

It comes up $353 when I go there. Unauthorized reseller as well so warranty is void. Not a good deal.
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
Not sure where you are going but it was a one day Woot deal on Saturday the 12th and was also available with an extended square trade warranty. $250 plus $5 shipping for the DC25.

coachsteve

join:2011-11-22
Chandler, AZ
reply to TigerLord
Greetings,

I'm a long, long time lurker at DSL Reports but have always preferred to sit quietly on the sidelines and bask in the wealth of knowledge freely available here. Kudos to the members of this community for the outstanding show of respect and assistance everyone offers without hesitation nor ridicule. Refreshing.

That said, after visiting the site today and seeing this thread, I felt compelled to register so that I could reply with some eye-opening, and perhaps jaw-dropping info about Dyson.

My friend owns and operates a chain of specialty stores here in the Phoenix area. He services and sells sewing machines and vacuums. His company is considered the best of its kind here and his techs are simply the best! He pays them well and they've been with him for a long time.

At any given time, you can walk into any of his 8 locations and see rows (usually 3 deep) of Dysons waiting their turn to be repaired. I asked him a while back, "What's the deal with all the Dyson's? Did you become an Authorized Service Center or something?" His exact reply was, "Nope, but I still take in about 70 per week - at every one of my stores to be repaired." 8 stores x 70 units per week....? Do the math! I couldn't believe it. I was floored. And, since he isn't an authorized warranty center, all those customers are paying out-of-pocket to the tune of an average $270.00 bill!

I don't know if I was more shocked by the situation or disappointed in what I thought was the coolest thing to come along in the vacuum world for a long time.

Anyway, just wanted to offer this heads up and pass along some very pertinent albeit disturbing information.

BTW, my name is Steve. I live just outside Phoenix, AZ. I'm the media relations liaison for a major music rock artist. Husband and father of two girls, 21 and 18. Hobbies include playing music, tinkering in my man-cave and building/tearing apart computers, and home improvement projects.

Regards,

Steve


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
You make my choice of going with Miele a lot more satisfying

I'm not surprised, I'd heard the same across various reviews and blogs.


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
reply to coachsteve
I've heard this about dozens of things over the last 2 decades from Troy Bilt to MTD to Dyson or other appliance manufactures. Everything is subjective and there's no definitive answer to which company makes quality products. People will say Bose's is overpriced junk yet others will give it glowing reviews. Stuff like a In-Sink-Erator people recently on these forums claimed were junk and wouldn't last 3-5 years. Then we got responses including myself who have had them over 10 years in perfect working order. I don't buy the extreme negative or positive on anything in this realm.

I remember lots of Dell repairs back in the day. The reality was most were customer caused like using a CD tray as an ash tray/cup holder or a virus/malware. Sure it appears like Dell is the issue when you have the major of Dell's in your shop but stuff isn't always what it appears in reality.

FYI: If they are skipping an authorized repair center to go to your buddy the Dyson is at minimum 5 years old in most cases. That says something right there.
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

coachsteve

join:2011-11-22
Chandler, AZ
said by Spork35:

I've heard this about dozens of things over the last 2 decades from Troy Bilt to MTD to Dyson or other appliance manufactures. Everything is subjective and there's no definitive answer to which company makes quality products. People will say Bose's is overpriced junk yet others will give it glowing reviews. Stuff like a In-Sink-Erator people recently on these forums claimed were junk and wouldn't last 3-5 years. Then we got responses including myself who have had them over 10 years in perfect working order. I don't buy the extreme negative or positive on anything in this realm.

I remember lots of Dell repairs back in the day. The reality was most were customer caused like using a CD tray as an ash tray/cup holder or a virus/malware. Sure it appears like Dell is the issue when you have the major of Dell's in your shop but stuff isn't always what it appears in reality.

FYI: If they are skipping an authorized repair center to go to your buddy the Dyson is at minimum 5 years old in most cases. That says something right there.

You make some very valid points and I agree with most of them. However, when the cause of the failure is consistently documented over a long period of time as being a design flaw or even a weakness which is exploited due to the a high percentage of end users simply not following a certain directive because of laziness, failure to familiarize themselves with the proper operating procedures, etc., I feel it becomes the responsibility or the mfr. to institute a design change which will drastically reduce the number of recurring failures of the same part(s). That's just simple covering your ass in my opinion. You as the mfr. can respond to a high number of failures by stating and showing evidence of it being caused by the end user but all that does is show you passing the blame instead of redesigning the product as well as embeds a red flag in the minds of potential consumers about a high number of problems with that particular product. Either way it's a lose-lose situation.

As a consumer, when I spend $800 on a vacuum I damn well better get more than 5 yrs. of service out of it before I have to face a repair bill which is almost half the original purchase price of the unit.

Regarding taking their units to my buddy...
They're choosing this as an alternative to paying far more if they did take it to an authorized service center.

As cost-conscious and increasingly savvy consumers who consult the vast numbers of resources available to us prior to making large purchases, we as a community come to associate certain brand names as being synonymous with quality: 3M, Apple, Porsche, and at some point Dyson due in part to their very effective marketing campaign and the initial reviews of those who have fairly recently purchased one and are fascinated with the technology and the fact that before the unit reaches what I feel is a very premature MTBF, the thing rocks! When it does reach the failure point, we as a society are becoming more and more "okay" for lack of a better, more fitting term, with the fact that "they don't make 'em like they used to!" and we accept the diagnosis and justify the failure as being.... well.... acceptable given the age of the device and how good of a job it did before it imploded. However, if we discover at a later date that a high percentage of people experienced the same issue at approximately the same time in the life of the unit..... warranty or not, it pisses people off. And the very first statement 99% of those people are going to make is, "If they knew there was a problem, ehy didn't they just change the design?"

I'm not taking a stand either way. I don't own one. Nope, we got high-dollared years before the Dyson by Rainbow vacuums and for reasons I'm still unclear of, spent over $1500 for it! LOL!

I'm not arguing with you, I'm really not. I'm more playing Devil's advocate and approaching the situation with what I thought was a very cool device, as an informed, tight-assed with a buck, consumer.

Don't even get me started on Kirby's!!

Thanks for your reply,

Regards,
Steve

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Spork35
said by Spork35:

I remember lots of Dell repairs back in the day. The reality was most were customer caused like using a CD tray as an ash tray/cup holder or a virus/malware. Sure it appears like Dell is the issue when you have the major of Dell's in your shop but stuff isn't always what it appears in reality.

Dell truly makes POS computers. Been in this business long enough to know that they are junk. Always have been and probably always will be.


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
said by itguy05:

said by Spork35:

I remember lots of Dell repairs back in the day. The reality was most were customer caused like using a CD tray as an ash tray/cup holder or a virus/malware. Sure it appears like Dell is the issue when you have the major of Dell's in your shop but stuff isn't always what it appears in reality.

Dell truly makes POS computers. Been in this business long enough to know that they are junk. Always have been and probably always will be.

That's another thread but you fall into the same category as the post you were addressing described. Simply brilliant!
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
said by Spork35:

That's another thread but you fall into the same category as the post you were addressing described. Simply brilliant!

No, I can cite what I saw - inferior components, poor assembly, and a host of other things that make Dell junk computers. But ilke you said, that's another topic.


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
said by itguy05:

said by Spork35:

That's another thread but you fall into the same category as the post you were addressing described. Simply brilliant!

No, I can cite what I saw - inferior components, poor assembly, and a host of other things that make Dell junk computers. But ilke you said, that's another topic.

We all see a lot of things in life but that doesn't make that stuff facts. It shapes our OPINIONS. When people speak OPINIONS in a way to make them sound like facts there where stuff goes badly for them. Hopefully those people know to use proper terminology like "From my experience" or "In my opinion" when they start those discussions. In the Dell case if they were that bad I doubt all the fortune 500 companies who use them exclusively would still be using them if reality was equal to opinions. The facts tend to speak for themselves.
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
I work at one of those Fortune 500 companies that use Dell and I assure you, the I.T. people who service them mostly think they're junk, too. Lots of hard drive failures and video failutes with the laptops, mostly. Motherboard failures with the desktop "workstations."

Just because Dell underbids others when lease RFQs go out doesn't mean that they use quality stuff. Companies use the machines with the lowest costs (considering lease and warranty/repair), not based on reliability.


Spork35

join:2011-07-13
Methuen, MA
said by garys_2k:

I work at one of those Fortune 500 companies that use Dell and I assure you, the I.T. people who service them mostly think they're junk, too. Lots of hard drive failures and video failutes with the laptops, mostly. Motherboard failures with the desktop "workstations."

Just because Dell underbids others when lease RFQs go out doesn't mean that they use quality stuff. Companies use the machines with the lowest costs (considering lease and warranty/repair), not based on reliability.

We all also think any branded PC is junk. Not much thought goes into it except it's not a custom built machine. We've all been there and have that t-shirt. It's just some understand this while others pretend not to so that they can cherry pick stuff to their liking. Kind of like the Dyson discussions as well. Like all brand discussions actually. That's what makes branded discussions interesting I guess.

Is it the pc manufacture's failure when a WD drive fails? How can HP, IBM, or Dell control WD? Sure blame the wrong person since that works for everything else.
--
"We are the Borg. You WILL be assimilated!" -ST:TNG