 fatnesssubtle
join:2000-11-17
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[NCAA-F] Unhappy Valley» www.timesleader.com/news ··· =7946866quote:
A former defensive coach who was integral for decades to Penn State's football success was accused Saturday of molesting eight boys, and two school administrators were charged with failing to tell police when a witness told them he saw a boy being sexually assaulted in the shower.
Former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, 67, was arrested Saturday and released on $100,000 bail after being arraigned on 40 criminal counts, according to the office of the state attorney general, Linda Kelly. She called Sandusky "a sexual predator who used his position within the university and community to repeatedly prey on young boys."
Though reports surfaced months ago that Sandusky was being investigated, the case took on an added dimension Saturday when Penn State's athletic director, Tim Curley, 57, and vice president for finance and business Gary Schultz, 62, were charged with perjury. Both were expected to turn themselves in on Monday in Harrisburg.
There's some graphic stuff described in the article; just a heads up. And there are incidents being investigated and charged that run over a course of quite a few years. Supposedly the only incident Paterno knew about he reported, but his superiors did nothing about it. |
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 FFH5
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join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
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FFH5
Premium Member
2011-Nov-5 8:40 pm
It is unfortunate about the pervert getting away with it for so long, but any large organization may have to deal with a rogue employee. But where Penn State is really going to get hammered is the actions of administrators doing a cover up so their school's reputation wasn't besmirched. They cared more about how it would look than about the victims. And for that they are going to pay out millions for losing lawsuits. And the 2 admins should lose their jobs, spend time in jail, and be bankrupted by law suits. Grand Jury charges: » media.philly.com/documen ··· ment.pdf |
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sailor
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fatnesssubtle
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Mike Wise is a pretty good sports writer; I've been reading him for years. This is the most disturbing part of the article: quote:
According to the attorney general’s office, in 2002 a graduate student assistant went to Paterno’s home the day after he saw Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the shower late at night at Lasch Football Building on the Penn State campus. Paterno told Curley the next day.
About 10 days after the incident, Curley and Schultz met with the graduate assistant who had witnessed the abuse. Their executive action, according to the grand jury report: They told Sandusky that he could not bring any children from his foundation into the football building any more.
No one from Penn State — not Paterno, not the human neckties, no one — ever reported the alleged incident to law enforcement, which the grand jury report says is required under Pennsylvania law
15 years of abusing kids, people in the program knowing about it, and nobody reporting it to police. |
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sailor
Premium Member
join:2003-10-21
Long Island |
sailor
Premium Member
2011-Nov-6 8:23 pm
Joe Paterno should have sounded the alarm if sordid tale is true; time to sack Paterno If allegations are true, somebody has to go » www.nydailynews.com/spor ··· 1.972869 |
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 Del_Gue
join:2001-10-03
Lancaster, OH |
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Sure doesn't look good that Paterno had info about child molestation by a fellow who was an associate and thought the limit of his responsibility was to tell a PSU official and then forget it. I am betting he makes the decision to retire very soon . Looks like the AD and VP for Business Operations have taken a hike. |
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 VoxxjinMade of Hamburger
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join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA |
Voxxjin
Premium Member
2011-Nov-7 9:32 am
said by Del_Gue:Sure doesn't look good that Paterno had info about child molestation by a fellow who was an associate and thought the limit of his responsibility was to tell a PSU official and then forget it.
You could say the same for the grad student. |
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fatnesssubtle
join:2000-11-17
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You can say the same for everyone in the program who ever heard about it or witnessed it. How does someone not report stuff like this to the police? |
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VoxxjinMade of Hamburger
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Dupont, WA |
Voxxjin
Premium Member
2011-Nov-7 11:13 am
Part of me has to wonder, what the grad student saw and what/how he described it to Paterno. If the grad student saw this (sexual assault) happening, why didn't he stop it when it was happening? |
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sailor
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Fooled my ass...Lying sack of garbage. “Sue and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential,” Paterno’s statement read. “The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers.” ____ That has left even the coach’s most ardent fans wondering why he didn’t do more. Nothing came of the 2002 incident and Sandusky was allowed to live free for another 9½ years, where he went on to abuse more victims according to Linda Kelly, the Pennsylvania attorney general. ___ By the following statement taken from the article it appears Paterno has made a deal to be a prosecution witness in exchange for no charges to be bought against him. Too bad I say due to they should all be charged and fired...it is not like the prosecutors need testimony from Paterno to convict Sandusky the pig...they have more than enough on the creep....plus I am of the opinion that it will never reach trial due to him taken himself out instead of standing trial..... "Paterno is in no legal trouble and the Patriot-News reports he will be a prosecution witness in the case." » rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/fo ··· ns110611 |
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Creep |
said by Voxxjin:Part of me has to wonder, what the grad student saw and what/how he described it to Paterno. If the grad student saw this (sexual assault) happening, why didn't he stop it when it was happening?
Stop a coach? The way they are thought to be gods.. He did the right thing by calling his dad and they notified Paterno...but Paterno not only didn't call law enforcement but he allowed it to be covered up which resulted in many other youngsters being sexually abused by his perverted coach.. Paterno and on down should all be fired but I doubt they will allow his image to be tainted...but it should...all those kids who suffered due to him keeping his mouth shut....Creep! |
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said by fatness:You can say the same for everyone in the program who ever heard about it or witnessed it. How does someone not report stuff like this to the police?
They didn't report it due to football and the glory, praise and worship it provided each of them was more important to them then the welfare of some 10-11 year old kids who were subject to repeated sexual abuse.  All that glory and praise made them feel they were untouchable. Even above the law! |
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 AB57
Premium Member
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said by sailor:He did the right thing by calling his dad and they notified Paterno... No he didn't. Only part of the right thing. I agree with Voxxjin  that the right thing would have been to step in and halt the act itself. Then call police. After that, call the dad or whoever. Of course, the way things get reported, we don't really know if the graduate assistant or janitor did anything to halt the act or not. But the sound of it is that they did not. Nor apparently did anyone call the police or any child services agency. It was merely reported to superiors. Personally, I don't consider that entirely 'doing the right thing'. P.S.-- Love the pic. Don't bump that head getting into the patrol car!   |
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Read the Grand Jury Report. I read the whole thing. Sandusky-Gra···ment.pdf
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AB57
Premium Member
join:2006-04-04
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AB57
Premium Member
2011-Nov-7 1:54 pm
Not something I especially wanted to read, but I did.
So, it seems the reportage has been accurate-- neither the janitor nor graduate assistant stepped in to halt the acts in progress. Just reported to others (and specifically not to police) what they had seen.
I can understand, to an extent-- the janitor was so shocked that he was frozen with disgust, confusion, and incredulity.
Still, I'd sure like to believe I'd have done something beyond be shocked and disgusted, had I been in his shoes. I'd like to believe I'd have done something to halt the act itself, and then done more than only tell others I worked with about it. |
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sailor
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What a freakin disgrace....wish everyone involved, including Paterno and the University President, would be held accountable for what happened to those pre-teen children. Not only for the time they became aware of what Sandusky allegedly did but for also covering up for the sick SOB which enabled him to allegedly continue for years to sexually abuse children.... __ Embattled former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky continued to be a presence around the Penn State football program up to his arrest Saturday on child molestation charges, including working out multiple times in the team’s weight room just last week, according to multiple sources within the football program. The sources, who asked to remain unnamed due to the nature of the scandal, said they saw Sandusky working out in the Lasch Football Building last week. Penn State said it banned Sandusky from bringing children to the football building after a then graduate assistant reported he saw the then 59-year-old coach and a 10-year-old boy in the shower of the football team’s locker room. The graduate assistant, identified by the Harrisburg Patriot-News as current Penn State assistant Mike McQueary, told coach Joe Paterno, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz about the incident, although the level of detail may not have been consistent. Curley and Schultz did not call police, as the state attorney general says was required by Pennsylvania law. Instead they chose to engage a partial ban of Sandusky from university facilities, although that apparently did not include full access to the school’s weight room. The decision was reviewed and approved by university president Graham Spanier. Sandusky, 67, was charged by a state grand jury with myriad counts of deviate sexual intercourse, corruption of minors, endangering the welfare of a child, indecent assault and other offenses after a three-year state police investigation. Curley and Schultz were also charged with failure to report the abuse of a child and perjury. Curley has asked to be placed on administrative leave. Schultz has retired. Both turned themselves into authorities Monday in Harrisburg. “Despite this so-called ‘ban’ which was reviewed and approved by University President Graham Spanier without any further inquiry on his part, there was no effective change in Sandusky’s status with the school and no limits on his access to campus,” attorney general Linda Clark said in a statement.» rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/fo ··· ek110711 |
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VoxxjinMade of Hamburger
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Dupont, WA |
to sailor
said by sailor:Fooled my ass...Lying sack of garbage.
“Sue and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential,” Paterno’s statement read. “The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers.”
Your cited article missed part of Paterno's statement: "As my grand jury testimony stated, I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators." » espn.go.com/college-foot ··· -forward |
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 Edge1But these go to 11.
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This whole thing makes me want to vomit. |
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fatnesssubtle
join:2000-11-17
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said by sailor:They didn't report it due to football and the glory, praise and worship it provided each of them was more important to them then the welfare of some 10-11 year old kids who were subject to repeated sexual abuse. I don't disagree with you about their reasoning. I just don't understand how human beings can let themselves slide that low morallly, to the point that they don't call the cops when a kid is being sexually abused. |
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sailor
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Cops Condemn Penn State's 'Culture' of Not Preventing Sex Abuse » news.yahoo.com/cops-cond ··· 819.html |
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As someone who worked at a major university, I can feel pretty sure of 2 things about the policies at Penn St regarding students, faculty and staff who witness a crime such as the one alleged here: (1) you're encouraged to take no action yourself, and (2) you're required to report the alleged crime to the campus police immediately. You're not supposed to go over to the football coach's house as soon as it's convenient in order to tell him about it. Paterno didn't witness anything and heard nothing but allegations (and not all of the graphic details apparently), so the only incident he could and should report--to his higher-ups and not to the campus police--was the alleged witness reporting what he allegedly witnessed. Paterno is not culpable for following established policies of the university. It's not his job to investigate alleged crimes, whether they did or didn't happen. But hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially for those who weren't involved in any way, shape, or form. |
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fatnesssubtle
join:2000-11-17
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said by mod_wastrel:Paterno is not culpable for following established policies of the university. It's not his job to investigate alleged crimes, whether they did or didn't happen. No one has suggested that he should have investigated crimes. He (and others) should have reported possible crimes to the police, for the police to investigate. University policies have nothing to do with it. |
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said by mod_wastrel:hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially for those who weren't involved in any way, shape, or form.
Great insight and right on point! Reading 23 pages of absolutely horrific findings all at once make it a no-brainer. I'm not sure any one of us could or would know what to do exactly at the moment this occurred. The report and the details of what occurred were so bizarre that it proves once again that truth is stranger than fiction. Could you imagine or believe that a colleague, acquaintance or neighbor would do such a thing if you witnessed it? And exactly how much did he witness? What would your reaction be? Chances are that if the person were a friend, maybe you give the benefit of the doubt at first. Innocent until proven guilty. Also realize that the story was whispered down the lane a few time. How watered down was it...we may never know. I'm not condoning anyone's actions in this situation. There is more than enough guilt, blame, pain and sadness to go around. But all these events did not happen as fast and as furious as the news has spread the past 72 hours. It's conceivable to see other points of view and how people did not act/react as one thinks they would. [However, I do not know how Sandusky was allowed access to the university from 2002 onward if what was stated is true] On to JoePa, I have not heard that Joe knows of victims 2-8. If I were him, I would have wanted to be a million miles from these events back in 2002. So, it might be easy to see how he did his legal duty and moved on. I believe he had already severed ties with Sandusky in 1999. The relationship was strained. Joe could have been a hero had he gone right to police. Instead he acted just as a regular guy. That doesn't make him guilty. That doesn't make him bad. And that should not tarnish the tremendous impact he has brought to so many. Edit: Spelling |
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AB57
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said by mod_wastrel:. . you're required to report the alleged crime to the campus police immediately. You're not supposed to go over to the football coach's house as soon as it's convenient in order to tell him about it. Witnessed at 9:30 on a Friday night. Over to Paterno's house Saturday morning. That's not exactly 'lollygagging around'. And according to Pennsylvania state law, you're not required to report it to campus police, you're required to report it to police. I take that to mean state and/or city police (without having actually read the statute myself), though even reporting it to campus police would have at least been more proper than not reporting it to any police at all. Joe Paterno is not a policeman, and I'll bet the graduate assistant knew that. Whether or not either of them were aware of the statute might be a different matter. But awareness of the statute shouldn't even come into play. Someone should have the called the cops. There's a moral obligation to do that, statute or no. said by avguser:Could you imagine or believe that a colleague, acquaintance or neighbor would do such a thing if you witnessed it? Yes. Most especially if I witnessed it. (Probably you meant 'if I hadn't witnessed it personally'?) What would your reaction be? Immediately call the cops on them. Just for starters. Also realize that the story was whispered down the lane a few time. Bullshit. The graduate assistant witnessed the incident at 9:30 on a Friday night. He told Paterno the next morning. Exactly how much "whispering down the lane" do you figure there was between Friday night and Saturday morning? He was describing to Paterno how he witnessed Sandusky naked in the shower with what appeared to be a boy around ten years old, with Sandusky's penis up the boy's ass. How does that get described so that Paterno doesn't undertand what was witnessed? Any "whispering down the lane" had likely been going on long before that Friday night. I find it extremely difficult to believe that Sandusky could regularly engage in such behavior in semi-public venues such as shower rooms and school wrestling rooms without at least some rumors being circulated around. If there were such rumors and Paterno claims he was never aware of them, then I don't believe him. Joe could have been a hero had he gone right to police. Instead he acted just as a regular guy. That doesn't make him guilty. That doesn't make him bad. And that should not tarnish the tremendous impact he has brought to so many. Yeah, it does make him "bad". And guilty. And goddam right it should 'tarnish his impact'. How much "impact" do you figure he had on further victims by not reporting to the police what he was told so that an investigation could be initiated or an arrest made? The sexual abuse could have stopped right then and there. It didn't. Nor did he act like a "regular guy". A "regular guy" would have called the cops-- just for starters. Which makes the graduate assistant, the janitor, the A.D., and everyone else who knew about it not "regular guys", either. |
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Edge1But these go to 11.
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Honest to God I'm spitting mad right now. WE NEED TO BLOW THE WHOLE THING UP. Joe needs to go. I want him to step down now, and I am a big JoePa fan. The university is going to suffer irreparable damage from this. he could undo all the good he's done by F-ing this up, and believe me, if you've heard any of his pressers the last few years, he's sure to F it up. |
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sailor
Premium Member
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Long Island |
sailor
Premium Member
2011-Nov-8 11:56 am
Many across the country are as angry as you are...to think that neither Paterno or anyone connected to the school made any attempt to even find out who the boy was that was raped by Sandusky at the school...didn't even care about the boy to even find out what his name was And according to the indictment Sandusky raped the young boy in the shower in 2002.....and nothing was done about it..nothing was done even though they already had knowledge of an incident involving Sandusky just four years earlier with an 11 year old.. _ The indictment also cited a 1998 incident in which an 11-year-old boy's mother called university police to complain after learning that her son had showered with Sandusky. A state Department of Public Welfare investigator told the grand jury that Sandusky said he showered naked with the youth and hugged him, "admitted that it was wrong," and promised not to shower with any child again. Kelly would not say whether Paterno or the university president knew of that investigation. "All I can say is that investigation was handled by Penn State University's police department," Kelly said. Penn State police said they were not releasing any information about the 1998 case. » news.yahoo.com/penn-stat ··· 704.html |
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FFH5
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Penn State cancels Paterno press conference amid reports he will step down. » www.philly.com/philly/ne ··· led.htmlAmid new questions about his future, Pennsylvania State University canceled a news conference for Joe Paterno today, citing the "ongoing legal circumstances" that have erupted since his former assistant coach was accused of molesting eight boys.
The announcement, by a university official, came about 45 minutes before the legendary coach was to face reporters for the first time since longtime defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was charged with child sex abuse and two university officials were accused of covering up the crime.
Around the same time the briefing was to begin, the New York Times reported that university officials had begun preparing for Paterno's depature as head coach. Citing two unnamed people briefed on the matter, the Times said discussions were underway on how to "manage" Paterno's exit. » www.nytimes.com/2011/11/ ··· xit.htmlMy guess would be they announce he is retiring after the end of the current season and bowl games. Then Penn State can go ahead and hire a new athletic director and football coach to start in January. |
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AB57
Premium Member
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AB57
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2011-Nov-8 1:05 pm
said by Edge1:he could undo all the good he's done by F-ing this up, and believe me, if you've heard any of his pressers the last few years, he's sure to F it up. |
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fatnesssubtle
join:2000-11-17
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There are so many people at Penn State who have done wrong here, legally and/or ethically, that it's difficult to find anyone who didn't. The guy who witnessed the kid getting raped in the shower told his dad and Paterno, but never the cops. The guy got a promotion. Paterno, for not following up with the cops. The other 2 guys indicted for perjury and failure-to-report child abuse. The university president for allowing all this to go on during his watch. And most of all the Sandusky guy. He used his connections with PSU to set up an organization that was conducting overnight football camps for kids on the PSU campus up until 2008. Basically it was a farm system for kids for him to abuse, right there on PSU's campus. There was a 1998 investigation of the guy by child welfare and by the university. There was the 2002 shower rape incident. There are 8 named victims in the grand jury indictment, and 40 counts. This has been going on on a big scale for a long time. » www.philly.com/philly/ne ··· html?c=rAnd everyone involved kept a lid on it, kept it in house, "for the good of the university". What about the damn kids who were getting abused? Penn State may be stupid enough to think that making Paterno resign will absolve them of blame in the eyes of the public, but it won't, not by a long shot. Information from the mothers of 2 of the abused kids: » www.pennlive.com/midstat ··· dus.htmlquote:
A few weeks before her son broke down and confessed to a principal at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County that he was being molested by Jerry Sandusky — a volunteer football coach at his high school — his mother began to suspect something was wrong.
First, it was because her son was acting out. When she grounded him, she said Sandusky demanded he be able to “take care of it.”
“I said, ‘No way, he’s my kid,’” she said.
Then, her son began asking her about an online database for “sex weirdos.”
“You don’t want to just accuse people of that,” the mother said. “I called the school principal and the guidance counselor and said, if nothing else, he’s taking my son out of classes. He’s leaving the school with him. ... So I asked them to call him into the office and ask [my son] how he felt. They did call him to the office that day and I remember [the principal] was in tears and she said, ‘You need to come here right away.’”
Her son, then 15, broke down and told them what happened.
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Edge1But these go to 11.
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I'm sick for those kids. Sick. If any of these incompetents at PSU (Paterno included) REALLY care about these kids and the university they will put their own heads voluntarily on the chopping block. Now is the time for real men (and women I suppose) to step up and do the honorable thing for the greater good. |
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