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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

pnh102 to N3OGH

Premium Member

to N3OGH

Re: Worth repeating - corporations don't pay taxes-customers do

said by N3OGH:

I'm not saying tax the rich to feed the poor until their "int no rich no more", but pay SOMETHING.

Exactly. I'd love to say that the 47% of people who paid no federal income tax. It isn't fair that all of these people get a free ride at the expense of everyone who paid something.
Wilsdom
join:2009-08-06

Wilsdom to amarryat

Member

to amarryat
A good percentage of corporations have gotten their government flunkies to reduce or eliminate their property taxes. Try doing that with your house
Expand your moderator at work

GetReal
@cox.com

GetReal to amarryat

Anon

to amarryat

Re: Worth repeating - corporations don't pay taxes-customers do

said by amarryat:

They pay property taxes on their buildings. Just like you pay them on your house.

Yes that is true, however, the original poster made a statement that taxes should only levied on individuals. If you hash that idea completely out, that preclude property taxes on business properties if they were owned by corporations.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat to Wilsdom

Member

to Wilsdom
If I employed hundreds of people in my town at my house, I'd probably be able to negotiate something like that.

footballdude
Premium Member
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

footballdude to GetReal

Premium Member

to GetReal
said by GetReal :

The argument was made that taxes should not be levied against businesses, only against natural persons or, in the post replied to, "individuals".

Nope. His point was that taxes levied against businesses are simply passed on to individuals.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat to GetReal

Member

to GetReal
Corporations are merely groups of people. Tax that entity and you are really taxing the investors, eg. 401K plans invested in stocks etc.

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium Member
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA

rawgerz to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
That just means that you, and everyone else is left to make up the difference.
This is a company that has Indian tech support for dsl and refuses to deploy faster speeds in areas that are not fios, then they wonder why dsl sales dry up.
Seems to me the average person should have benefited from this by now. Why is my bill not cut in half to represent Uncle Sam's share being cut out? Why are areas they won't deploy any service beyond POTS in not being built because they have a 2-4 year ROI? Why has FIOS builds stopped?
I would think investors would love to have some of those questions answered.

Besides, haven't you been watching Fox news lately? We're in massive debt, but corporate giants not paying taxes is good?
If you're really for lower taxes, demand your elected official cut military spending by 90%. Your taxes will be half what they are now!

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
I LOVE how people throw that one out there all the time without doing their own research first.

It's not 47% of people, it's 47% of all those who filed as being single who don't pay any federal income tax.

Along with that, 38% of joint filers will pay no federal income tax, and 72% of those who file as "head of household" end up owing no federal income taxes.

Of course these statistics are taken from a year that was smack dab in the middle of a recession, where all kinds of tax breaks were thrown out there to try and "stimulate" the economy. An effort that was obviously an epic fail, but that's a topic for another time.

On it's surface, the number sounds grotesque, but in fact it's the facts taken and twisted into a talking point to serve an agenda. Something I used to think only the left did.

Now I know they all do it......

GetReal
@cox.com

GetReal to amarryat

Anon

to amarryat
said by amarryat:

Corporations are merely groups of people. Tax that entity and you are really taxing the investors, eg. 401K plans invested in stocks etc.

Yes they are, which is why the corporate income tax should be zero if we continue to tax capital gains and dividends the way we are doing it now. If the corporation has already paid taxes on its profits, the shareholders shouldn't have to pay taxes again on that same money and vice versa.

However, no person or group of people should benefit from government services without paying for them and corporations receive a benefit from the government in the form of services like fire and police protections. Advocating for no taxes on corporations means that individuals are forced to pay higher rates and are essentially subsidizing the services that businesses receive from the government.
GetReal

GetReal to footballdude

Anon

to footballdude
said by footballdude:

Nope. His point was that taxes levied against businesses are simply passed on to individuals.

In the original post, yes. In the post I responded to, no. The point of the post I responded to was that taxes levied on business should be eliminated because they are simply passed on. My point is that creates a problem whereby business benefits from services it doesn't pay for if you do that. There is no reason to debate that those taxes are passed on to customers since we all know that is the case, however it is fair to debate the idea that business should pay no tax because they pass those costs on.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

1 recommendation

amarryat to GetReal

Member

to GetReal
said by GetReal :

If the corporation has already paid taxes on its profits, the shareholders shouldn't have to pay taxes again on that same money and vice versa.

I dream of that day. By extension, then all money should be taxed once and only once. However it is taxed again and again in the current system. When I get paid, I also pay taxes. When I pay someone to mow the lawn, they pay taxes on the money that I paid them, which was already taxed. And on and on.....

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 recommendation

Jack_in_VA to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
Or they are included in the 47 percent who pay no individual federal taxes themselves. That's the ones usually squealing for higher and more taxes since they don't have a stake in it.

GetReal
@cox.com

GetReal to amarryat

Anon

to amarryat
said by amarryat:

I dream of that day. By extension, then all money should be taxed once and only once. However it is taxed again and again in the current system. When I get paid, I also pay taxes. When I pay someone to mow the lawn, they pay taxes on the money that I paid them, which was already taxed. And on and on.....

I don't know how that would work though... You would eventually end up at a point where nothing would be taxed because the money has flowed through the economy a couple of times.

There is no simple solution to an issue like taxation.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102 to N3OGH

Premium Member

to N3OGH
said by N3OGH:

I LOVE how people throw that one out there all the time without doing their own research first.

It's not 47% of people, it's 47% of all those who filed as being single who don't pay any federal income tax.

Along with that, 38% of joint filers will pay no federal income tax, and 72% of those who file as "head of household" end up owing no federal income taxes.

Wow. The problem is much worse than I knew it to be. All of these people should be paying something. Every last one of them.
Expand your moderator at work

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat to GetReal

Member

to GetReal

Re: Worth repeating - corporations don't pay taxes-customers do

said by GetReal :

said by amarryat:

I dream of that day. By extension, then all money should be taxed once and only once. However it is taxed again and again in the current system. When I get paid, I also pay taxes. When I pay someone to mow the lawn, they pay taxes on the money that I paid them, which was already taxed. And on and on.....

I don't know how that would work though... You would eventually end up at a point where nothing would be taxed because the money has flowed through the economy a couple of times.

There is no simple solution to an issue like taxation.

Maybe a consumption tax, but to prevent re-taxation, only on the end product.

Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA

Thaler to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
I'm assuming this is sarcasm.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
Actually, I believe he IS rich for two reasons...

First because no one actually believes that crap. The only ones pushing it are either CEOs/Shareholders or paid corporate propagandists. His arguments aren't substantial enough to believe he is the latter.

Second, he obviously sits at home and waits to be the first poster to these topics. Who else could do that but someone who is filthy rich?
93388818 (banned)
It's cool, I'm takin it back
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

93388818 (banned) to Bill Dollar

Member

to Bill Dollar
said by Bill Dollar:

...the one that paid it's CEO...

irrelevant
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
said by pnh102:

All of these people should be paying something. Every last one of them.

Ridiculous. People who are so poor that they collect from the system should then pay some of it back? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The top 1% should be taxed heavily... the 99% shouldn't pay anything.
CXM_Splicer

CXM_Splicer to amarryat

Premium Member

to amarryat
said by amarryat:

The top 1% of wage earners make 20% of all the money and pay 40% of all the taxes. So they're already paying a few more $$$ in taxes.

A very common right wing talking point which they are told to vomit up anytime taxes are discussed. The part they DON'T tell you is that this is only income tax. Tax revenue is also made up substantially of FICA which the top 1% contribute next to nothing.

If the top 1% are paying 40% of the income tax revenue, who is paying the other 60%?
CXM_Splicer

CXM_Splicer to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

It is worth repeating that it is the customers of these companies who pay the taxes thru higher prices. Anyone cheering for corporations paying higher taxes are really just cheering to pay more taxes themselves

Of course this is complete rubbish and easily refuted by both history and common sense.

First, immediately following WWII the corporate tax rate was its highest ever (by far) in history. These increased taxes were NOT passed on to the consumer but were instead absorbed by the corporations as they would be today. The years that followed were arguably some of the country's most prosperous.

Second, Corporate taxes have been DECREASING ever since and there has been no resulting reduction passed on to the consumer. Please raise your hand if your Verizon phone bill suddenly dropped when they stopped paying taxes. Anyone... anyone?

The financial solution is very simple: very high taxes on the top 1%, even higher corporate taxes, and a cut in military spending to 20% of its current value.

mlub
@frontiernet.net

mlub to GetReal

Anon

to GetReal
So because I am a small biz owner of a corp this does not mean that me our my staff drives on anymore public roadways, uses more school resources, goes to the library anymore, etc. I pay my taxes as a citizen just like everyone else and then some! Because I am taxed on revenue that I dont get to take home because I like the idea of keeping cash in the bank to pay bills and payroll, I end up with a tax rate about 40%.

We all pay our taxes and use the same amount of "public services" in infrastructure, defense, etc. Stop thinking that all corporations need taxed. Most of the corps out there are small biz like me and more taxes will crush them in this rat hole economy. Just clean up the tax code and put everyone on the same field and get rid of the loop holes that large firms can lobby DC to put in for them.

GetReal
@cox.net

GetReal

Anon

Well, if businesses don't want to pay their share of taxes, fine. Then you shouldn't expect the police or the fire department to show up at your business when you need them.

Huh
@verizon.net

Huh to GetReal

Anon

to GetReal
Huh? So you understand business passes the cost of taxation onto customers, hence individuals are already paying for the government services from which the business benefits. Business ALREADY benefits from services it doesn't pay for. Seems you're contradicting your own point...

Rogue Wolf
An Easy Draw of a Sad Few
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY

Rogue Wolf to pnh102

Member

to pnh102
said by pnh102:

said by N3OGH:

I LOVE how people throw that one out there all the time without doing their own research first.

It's not 47% of people, it's 47% of all those who filed as being single who don't pay any federal income tax.

Along with that, 38% of joint filers will pay no federal income tax, and 72% of those who file as "head of household" end up owing no federal income taxes.

Wow. The problem is much worse than I knew it to be. All of these people should be paying something. Every last one of them.

So you can do it one of two ways.

1. Tax them some trivial amount- a lot of people say one dollar. You end up spending more for enforcement, collection and tracking than you gain.

2. You tax them a significant amount of their income to make it worth the effort, which for quite a few people who are already barely holding on would prove ruinous.

Waste money for pointless symbolism, or put no small amount of already-poor people on the streets. Which do you choose?

HuhWhat
@cox.net

HuhWhat to Huh

Anon

to Huh
Uh, what? If you continue along your line of reasoning, my employer is paying my property taxes because my money comes from them. And if you keep going, it means that anyone that purchased a service from our company is paying for my property taxes. But because I might have paid for something from our customers' employers, I'm paying them to give me my money back to pay my own taxes. Rinse - wash - repeat.

Seriously, that argument can get a bit ridiculous.

petemitchell
@sbcglobal.net

petemitchell to amarryat

Anon

to amarryat
said by amarryat:

When you're an S-Corp like me, you already do some of that. It sucks.

Another corporate tax dodger in the making...
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

You mean business?

Do you pay your statutory personal income tax rate?
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