dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5988
share rss forum feed


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
reply to Joe12345678

Re: DCX3400 box for sale on craigslist

"set top box" in terms of a retail device, ie TiVo, Moxi, or home theather computer with a cablecard tuner.

RalphKramden

join:2007-01-10
Newtown, PA

1 recommendation

reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

It's sounds like someone needs to push the issue and make a test case in the courts.

Obviously, this is something that you are passionate about. I vote that you should be that someone.

rcilink
Premium
join:2003-12-15
Manchester, NH
reply to EJ8
Good luck getting them to activate the DCX3400 box. It is not in their business plan to let you do that.

That does not mean you 'can not' pull it off though. The actual box certainly can be added to their inventory (if it is not already in there) and setup, if they have the proper firmware for it.

Someone in Canada should flip the DCX series box over and look for the FCC stamp. I have a feeling you may find one (even if it does not matter in Canada).

I think the thing people need to remember is that this is a business. Not only to 'sell' you access to TV channels, but also to make money on the equipment that allows conditional access.

I have not tried to purchase a CableCARD. Has anyone had success getting Comcast to activate a customer-owned card?


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to EJ8
If you want to own your own set-top box, go to Best Buy and go pick up a TiVo DVR. They are much better than the STBs and DVRs issued by the cable companies. And all you need for them to function is 1. A cable card (for the programing) and 2. One of the following a. High-speed Internet connection or b. a phone line (for the guide data) and 3. A TiVo subscription (I just buy the lifetime). Comcast WILL activate CableCards for TiVo boxes, Comcast WILL NOT activate proprietary equipment sold exclusively to service providers (even if they are lawfully obtained like some posters said about STBs in Canada) that is not leased from them. If you see proprietary cable equipment on Craigslist or eBay, there is a 99.96 percent chance it is unreturned equipment and/or most likely stolen.
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.

andyross
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL
Just note that with Tivo, you don't get OnDemand.


castsucks

@dsl.net
reply to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

If you want to own your own set-top box, go to Best Buy and go pick up a TiVo DVR. They are much better than the STBs and DVRs issued by the cable companies. And all you need for them to function is 1. A cable card (for the programing) and 2. One of the following a. High-speed Internet connection or b. a phone line (for the guide data) and 3. A TiVo subscription (I just buy the lifetime). Comcast WILL activate CableCards for TiVo boxes, Comcast WILL NOT activate proprietary equipment sold exclusively to service providers (even if they are lawfully obtained like some posters said about STBs in Canada) that is not leased from them. If you see proprietary cable equipment on Craigslist or eBay, there is a 99.96 percent chance it is unreturned equipment and/or most likely stolen.

Under the LAW of first sale exclusively to service providers will not hold up! 2. Unturned does not = stolen yes unpaid Unturned maybe stolen but if that fee is turned over to debt collection then other laws get in to the mix.

TiVo does not get you VOD (you are paying for the free VOD) and some time events PPV.

Also the boxes have cable card slots the fcc law forced them to add cable card slots to the cable boxes so you should be able to get your own box same one as the cable uses and just rent the card.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to andyross
said by andyross:

Just note that with Tivo, you don't get OnDemand.

Most of my TV viewing is either live TV or DVR recordings. There is not that many OnDemand or PPV programs that interest me. I did have a Comcast set-top alongside my TiVo on the downstairs TV for OnDemand but I never used it so I turned it back into Comcast and shaved $6 per month off of my bill. So my setup is 2 TiVo DVRs (one upstairs in the bedroom and one downstairs in the family room) and my customer owned EMTA (with voice and data on same device) in the same bedroom as the upstairs TiVo. The advantage of having the TiVos is I bought the 2 boxes and lifetime subscriptions. The first CableCard is free and the second is 6.45 per month. Sure beats paying $15 plus per month to rent the Comcast DVRs and my setup is the two TVs so I need a DVR on each of them. My monthly bill comes to about $159 per month for the Triple Play with HBO and Starz. Would be a lot higher if rental equipment were added to the equation.
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
reply to andyross
said by andyross:

Just note that with Tivo, you don't get OnDemand.

With Tivo you don't get Comcast's onDemand, but you you get on demand videos through Netflix, Amazon Video, Blockbuster Video, Hulu, YouTube, etc.... which you can't get on Comcast's box.

You also can't digitally transfer videos off a Comcast DVR to your PC, iPod, or other devices like you can with a Tivo.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

RalphKramden

join:2007-01-10
Newtown, PA
reply to castsucks
said by castsucks :

TiVo does not get you VOD (you are paying for the free VOD) and some time events PPV.

Perhaps Comcast could argue that the VOD fee is built into the rental fee for the STB. You don't pay that fee if you replace the Comcast STB with a Tivo, therefore no VOD for you. I have no idea if that is the case, but makes sense, I think.

ajwees41
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE
reply to gar187er
said by gar187er:

MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....

I think they can they just choose not to

RalphKramden

join:2007-01-10
Newtown, PA
reply to rcilink
said by rcilink:

Not only to 'sell' you access to TV channels, but also to make money on the equipment that allows conditional access.

Don't know how many of you are old enough to remember, but pre-1970-ish, this was the model for home telephone service. You couldn't purchase your own phone. You had to RENT a telephone from Ma Bell for a monthly fee. No option. Take it or leave it. If they caught you using non-Ma Bell equipment, and even in those primitive days, they had their ways, they could terminate your service. And there was no other service as an alternative.

The phone was hard wired to a jack and if you wanted the ability to move it from room to room, you had to rent a special phone with a special plug and have a plugable jack installed and pay a monthly fee for all that (there were no cordless or cell phones, boys & girsl)! If you wanted two phones, you had to rent two phones AND pay an additional fee for an extension! Sound familiar?

The phone company had all kinds of technical reasons why they didn't want customers to use their own equipment, but of course the real reason was most likely that the rental model was a good source of revenue for the business.

As soon as real competition came into the telephone marketplace, and people left the legacy phone companies to save money or for better service or better options, all that nonsense ended.

The key to getting Comcast to change is not to talk about laws and court cases and fairness. There ARE alternatives these days. Stop sending them your money, let them know why you have stopped, and when there is a negative impact on profits, things will change.


Oregonian
Premium
join:2000-12-21
West Linn, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to rody_44
said by rody_44:

...but looks are not everything.

Speak for yourself!


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
reply to ajwees41
said by ajwees41:

said by gar187er:

MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....

I think they can they just choose not to

It is also up to the manufacturer to give the MSO permission to sell the equipment because the software running on the digital set top boxes have licenses.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
reply to rcilink
I've considered purchasing and installing a customer owned cablecard but I'm afraid it won't work and would be a waste of money. I know Ebay has both Motorola and Cisco cablecards for sale as of last night. If anyone wants to give me $20 bucks I'll be happy to find out.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

said by ajwees41:

said by gar187er:

MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....

I think they can they just choose not to

It is also up to the manufacturer to give the MSO permission to sell the equipment because the software running on the digital set top boxes have licenses.

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale ··· doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20

1 edit
reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

I've considered purchasing and installing a customer owned cablecard but I'm afraid it won't work and would be a waste of money. I know Ebay has both Motorola and Cisco cablecards for sale as of last night. If anyone wants to give me $20 bucks I'll be happy to find out.

The big problem with buying a CableCARD or older non CableCARD box is it doesn't include the private keys the provider needs to input into their system.

--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

There have been multiple lawsuits filed about this, including ones against Comcast, but I don't know where they stand.

»Comcast Sued (Again) For Cable Box Rentals


owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale ··· doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

IMO, the first sale doctrine has nothing to do with this. The device is "first sold" to an MSO. They can do with it whatever they want- resell it, or not resell it. In the U.S., most do not resell it. Even if the situation is that, in order to purchase and use the boxes, the MSO must enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to not resell the boxes, that is their choice. Also, we don't know who wants that stipulation. The MSOs may insist that the manufacturer not sell to consumers. Either way, the first sale doctrine doesn't seem to apply.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
said by owlyn:

said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale ··· doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

IMO, the first sale doctrine has nothing to do with this. The device is "first sold" to an MSO. They can do with it whatever they want- resell it, or not resell it. In the U.S., most do not resell it. Even if the situation is that, in order to purchase and use the boxes, the MSO must enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to not resell the boxes, that is their choice. Also, we don't know who wants that stipulation. The MSOs may insist that the manufacturer not sell to consumers. Either way, the first sale doctrine doesn't seem to apply.

I don't think an agreement like that will hold up in court MS tried stuff like that aka you can only sell systems with windows on them and the courts stopped that.

Any ways what if they where dumped?? I herd some one found a WeatherStar XL in a dumpster at old cable head end.

What if some ended up at a electronics recycling place? The electronics recycling do sell PC's and other stuff they take in.

scanpa
Premium
join:2006-09-06
Lebanon, PA
1 way STB can be resold to the public.

2 way - Addressable STB can not be sold to the public in the USA.


wrong wrong

@verizon.net
reply to EJ8
people are looking to the wrong company...sue moto/SA...not comcast.....your tv provider has nothing to do with the lack of equipment for sale to the public.....


owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

said by owlyn:

said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale ··· doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

IMO, the first sale doctrine has nothing to do with this. The device is "first sold" to an MSO. They can do with it whatever they want- resell it, or not resell it. In the U.S., most do not resell it. Even if the situation is that, in order to purchase and use the boxes, the MSO must enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to not resell the boxes, that is their choice. Also, we don't know who wants that stipulation. The MSOs may insist that the manufacturer not sell to consumers. Either way, the first sale doctrine doesn't seem to apply.

I don't think an agreement like that will hold up in court MS tried stuff like that aka you can only sell systems with windows on them and the courts stopped that.

Any ways what if they where dumped?? I herd some one found a WeatherStar XL in a dumpster at old cable head end.

What if some ended up at a electronics recycling place? The electronics recycling do sell PC's and other stuff they take in.

Whatever, dude. The point is that you can buy whatever you can find, but don't expect Comcast to activate it. Comcast boxes found on the web are either unreturned to Comcast, or stolen, and in either case they still belong to Comcast. The only other boxes came from Canada. Either way, they won't be activated.


halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to EJ8
Even if you could purchase a box and get it activated in most areas you would only save the "User Provided Equipment Credit" which is around $2.00 to $2.50 off the "Additional Outlet Fee".
While the future of cable equipment availability is likely to morph into a world of tivos and other customer boxes just as the AT&T provided phone equipment industry eventually changed, it will be a slow process. For now, finding a legal loophole, and a cable system that is customer centered enough to allow you to use your own purchased set top box is going to be painful.
--
Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
But it could've been different if the FCC had gotten off their ass about AllVid, because then all MVPDs would've been required to provide open, IP-based access instead of this card crap. Not to mention losing the STB lock-in that they all love.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:20
said by GTFan:

But it could've been different if the FCC had gotten off their ass about AllVid, because then all MVPDs would've been required to provide open, IP-based access instead of this card crap. Not to mention losing the STB lock-in that they all love.

The AllVid proposal was floated by the FCC last year, it's not even any sort of standard a company can build a product to fit. The FCC ordered CableCARD 13 years ago and the first user obtainable device saw light of day 7 years ago. Don't expect AllVid to actually be a usable device for a few more years.

Companies and consumers love spending billions of dollars on the direction of the FCC's whim...
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Caddyroger
Premium
join:2001-06-11
To the west
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to GTFan
said by GTFan:

But it could've been different if the FCC had gotten off their ass about AllVid, because then all MVPDs would've been required to provide open, IP-based access instead of this card crap. Not to mention losing the STB lock-in that they all love.

Evan if Comcast went to Allvid Comcast still would not provision a Motorola or sa box because it belong to them.
You can not go ip based because there still a lot of people that do not need or want a computer or internet service. It will have to be able to us without the internet.
--
Caddy

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
I don't really give a damn about the uninformed masses, I want AllVid so I can run my own setup and easily switch to any provider without using their crappy boxes. I'm sure tons of folks want the MVPDs to take care of them just like Ma Bell used to do, and AllVid ain't for them.