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scanpa
Premium
join:2006-09-06
Lebanon, PA
reply to EJ8

Re: DCX3400 box for sale on craigslist

As mentioned on here in Countless Threads.

It is a Stolen STB Box. Do not waste your money. Your cable company will NOT activate it for you. It will not work for you, as u would need to get it activated on your cable account, and have the box reset so it can download your account details and download the software and firmware used in your area, and so the box can setup your local channel map and access rights.

These STB are not sold to the public directly, only to the cable Companies. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY. It will be nothing but a Large Doorstop to you.

EJ8

join:2003-02-24
Los Angeles, CA
scanpa - thanks for your reply. Sorry I havent seen any such threads although I'm sure they exist. I'm just not around here enough.

I sort of thought I would get this type of answer. It seemed sketchy. And I'm not interested in any nefarious purchases or equipment. Thanks again.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to scanpa
Yup and most likely he'll get a visit from the police. If I was him I'd turn the seller over to the authorities.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to scanpa
They are all not stolen boxes from canada are NOT Stolen.

Also even when the STB are not sold to the public directly. If some cable co (at least 1 college made people living in the dorms buy a cable box to use the dorm cable system) does sell them the rules of first sale covers over them.


gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4
MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....
--
I'm better than you!


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Joe12345678
I read that Canada allows customers to purchase their set top boxes but states that if anything happens to the equipment they are not required to fix it. Some cable companies may allow you to install your own set top box but they are not required to support it, and most likely they wont due to security issues on the network. The same view is taken as that of I.T. network administrators whom limits what and who can connect to their network because a user connecting a personal computer which could contain a worm or virus or worse could cause a breach of security or stability.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
A box bought from Canada will not work on any us cable systems. They look the same but looks are not everything.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to Mike Wolf
But the boxes download the firmware and software off of the local headend.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to rody_44
You're both correct sort of. It would actually work but its a gray area that is too complicated to go into here.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

2 edits
well what about the FCC LAW saying that the cable CO must trun on a cable card box?

It's sounds like someone needs to push the issue and make a test case in the courts.

There are more then a few laws that cover differs parts of this.

But any one how says all boxes out there are stolen is wrong.

Even if the boxes has a comcast logo on it if you have payed the unreturned fee you own it. It's just like a hotel where they say if you take X from the home we will bill you X and you pay you own it.

Now that maybe a other test case rent a cable box don't return it pay the fee and then say I own the box and it has a cable card slot so under FCC LAW YOU MUST TRUN IT ON / GIVE ME A WORKING CABLE CARD.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16
said by Joe12345678:

Now that maybe a other test case rent a cable box don't return it pay the fee and then say I own the box and it has a cable card slot so under FCC LAW YOU MUST TRUN IT ON / GIVE ME A WORKING CABLE CARD.

What does the FCC say about the software on the box or the software needed to operate on the cable system?

Wonder how billing for licensing of iGuide, VOD client software, and other client software running on the box works if a customer is just paying for CableCARD rental... It isn't free and the cable company certainly gets billed for it, I'm sure on a "per client" basis. So just because it may automatically get pushed out (against some customers wishes) to all boxes, doesn't mean it's automatically legal for non-company owned boxes to run it.

A box with no software or guide data is useless.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Joe12345678
Cisco and Motorola does not sell their digital cable boxes and cablecards to customers in the United States, only in places like Canada, so whatever FCC law your thinking of does not apply. Cable cards are a different thing all together. I am not aware of a means of purchasing a cable card or digital cable box in a retail environment in the United States by which I mean BestBuy or through a cable provider.
I understand your point of view in regards to the "if you paid the unreturned fee you own it" but there is no law stating that a cable provider MUST support that box, although if they choose to it is their right, unlike cable cards where they ARE required to. It is the same reason why not every cable modem sold is supported by every cable provider. There are a few reasons for this, one of which is that every digital cable box has a form of security software built into it either onboard with the older boxes or through a cable card with the newer boxes which have for lack of a better term a "password" that is only accepted in the correct market. Secondly the software running on the digital cable boxes are not neutrally universal and will only work with the specific headend they have been programmed for. For example if someone wanted to use a Motorola digital cable box in a Cisco/SA market it would not be possible, or a Comcast digital cable box in a Cablevision market. Even if a Cisco/SA digital cable box was installed in another Cisco/SA market it would not work without the cable card being reprogrammed by the cable provider or manufacturer. If you want universal equipment that is where TiVo and Moxi come into the picture because the software that they run on is not dependant on the environment they are running in. The only thing they want is a compatible cable card which works in that serving market. I hope this clears up any confusion.

scanpa
Premium
join:2006-09-06
Lebanon, PA
reply to Joe12345678
2 things to explain why Canada Cable STB are not usable in the USA.

1) Not a FCC certified Device.

2) 3 of the 10 STB OOB Frequencies are different in Canada, compared to the USA Frequency Set.

Any other Questions?

scanpa
Premium
join:2006-09-06
Lebanon, PA
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

well what about the FCC LAW saying that the cable CO must trun on a cable card box?

It's sounds like someone needs to push the issue and make a test case in the courts.

There are more then a few laws that cover differs parts of this.

But any one how says all boxes out there are stolen is wrong.

Even if the boxes has a comcast logo on it if you have payed the unreturned fee you own it. It's just like a hotel where they say if you take X from the home we will bill you X and you pay you own it.

Now that maybe a other test case rent a cable box don't return it pay the fee and then say I own the box and it has a cable card slot so under FCC LAW YOU MUST TRUN IT ON / GIVE ME A WORKING CABLE CARD.

You need to re-read the law. I politely suggest you get help from someone with a background in Business and FCC related laws.

Not sure why you post this in every thread related to MSO Cable STB that are listed for sale, illegally.


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to Mike Wolf
Service Electric sells cable cards »www.sectv.com/LV/cable_card.html

The NEW Cable card laws say that you can Use your own set-top box without extra charge. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box.

It's some thing that a court needs to look at and make a ruling.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to scanpa
The cable box manuals tell you how to get / about the OOB Frequencies picker list and anyway all you need to due is get 1 so it can download the local software from the headend with all 10 of the right frequencies?

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to scanpa
said by scanpa See Profile
You need to re-read the law. I politely suggest you get help from someone with a background in Business and FCC related laws.

Not sure why you post this in every thread related to MSO Cable STB that are listed for sale, illegally.

[/BQUOTE :

well people saying that all boxes for sale and stolen are not trun.

Also about Business law there have been lawsuits about being forced to rent a BOX to get cable / VOD and that may be tieing or some other law that the cable co are breaking.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Joe12345678
"set top box" in terms of a retail device, ie TiVo, Moxi, or home theather computer with a cablecard tuner.

RalphKramden

join:2007-01-10
Newtown, PA

1 recommendation

reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

It's sounds like someone needs to push the issue and make a test case in the courts.

Obviously, this is something that you are passionate about. I vote that you should be that someone.

ajwees41
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE
reply to gar187er
said by gar187er:

MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....

I think they can they just choose not to


Oregonian
Premium
join:2000-12-21
West Linn, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to rody_44
said by rody_44:

...but looks are not everything.

Speak for yourself!


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to ajwees41
said by ajwees41:

said by gar187er:

MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....

I think they can they just choose not to

It is also up to the manufacturer to give the MSO permission to sell the equipment because the software running on the digital set top boxes have licenses.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
said by Mike Wolf:

said by ajwees41:

said by gar187er:

MSOs CANNOT sell them...thats the point....

I think they can they just choose not to

It is also up to the manufacturer to give the MSO permission to sell the equipment because the software running on the digital set top boxes have licenses.

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

There have been multiple lawsuits filed about this, including ones against Comcast, but I don't know where they stand.

»Comcast Sued (Again) For Cable Box Rentals


owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

IMO, the first sale doctrine has nothing to do with this. The device is "first sold" to an MSO. They can do with it whatever they want- resell it, or not resell it. In the U.S., most do not resell it. Even if the situation is that, in order to purchase and use the boxes, the MSO must enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to not resell the boxes, that is their choice. Also, we don't know who wants that stipulation. The MSOs may insist that the manufacturer not sell to consumers. Either way, the first sale doctrine doesn't seem to apply.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
said by owlyn:

said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

IMO, the first sale doctrine has nothing to do with this. The device is "first sold" to an MSO. They can do with it whatever they want- resell it, or not resell it. In the U.S., most do not resell it. Even if the situation is that, in order to purchase and use the boxes, the MSO must enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to not resell the boxes, that is their choice. Also, we don't know who wants that stipulation. The MSOs may insist that the manufacturer not sell to consumers. Either way, the first sale doctrine doesn't seem to apply.

I don't think an agreement like that will hold up in court MS tried stuff like that aka you can only sell systems with windows on them and the courts stopped that.

Any ways what if they where dumped?? I herd some one found a WeatherStar XL in a dumpster at old cable head end.

What if some ended up at a electronics recycling place? The electronics recycling do sell PC's and other stuff they take in.

scanpa
Premium
join:2006-09-06
Lebanon, PA
1 way STB can be resold to the public.

2 way - Addressable STB can not be sold to the public in the USA.


owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Joe12345678
said by Joe12345678:

said by owlyn:

said by Joe12345678:

That sounds like the BS that was used to lock you into renting your home phone in the past.

First-sale doctrine

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.

IMO, the first sale doctrine has nothing to do with this. The device is "first sold" to an MSO. They can do with it whatever they want- resell it, or not resell it. In the U.S., most do not resell it. Even if the situation is that, in order to purchase and use the boxes, the MSO must enter into an agreement with the manufacturer to not resell the boxes, that is their choice. Also, we don't know who wants that stipulation. The MSOs may insist that the manufacturer not sell to consumers. Either way, the first sale doctrine doesn't seem to apply.

I don't think an agreement like that will hold up in court MS tried stuff like that aka you can only sell systems with windows on them and the courts stopped that.

Any ways what if they where dumped?? I herd some one found a WeatherStar XL in a dumpster at old cable head end.

What if some ended up at a electronics recycling place? The electronics recycling do sell PC's and other stuff they take in.

Whatever, dude. The point is that you can buy whatever you can find, but don't expect Comcast to activate it. Comcast boxes found on the web are either unreturned to Comcast, or stolen, and in either case they still belong to Comcast. The only other boxes came from Canada. Either way, they won't be activated.