Talk > Automotive Social > Revenge of the internal combustion engine

Revenge of the internal combustion engine

quote:

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Automakers bet heavily on hybrids, electrics; consumers prefer gas engines

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The ONLY thing that will make electric/hybrid vehicles a reasonable solution is for the price of gasoline to surpass $10/gallon. Even then, the cost of energy could make the production of electric/hybrid vehicles even more cost prohibitive.

What to even say to a post that contradicts its self lol.

As for OP not that they prefer gas engines but the volt is a flipping JOKE... no smart person would ever buy it... it is WORTHLESS as anything. EV is useless, gas is useless (for cost) the volt was a joke from the start.

Look at the prius... how well did that thing do... the volt is just crap.

reply to Waterbug
I don't think there's a set number like $10/gallon -- that depends a lot on how much one drives. There are people whose daily commute is over 100 miles, and they'd be more likely to recover the extra money spent up front.

Assuming 12,000 miles/year, the difference in consumption between a 35 and 40 mpg car would be under 50 gallon.
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Yes we Cain!

reply to aurgathor
Just like with anything - early adopters have money and pave the path for cheaper versions and keep technology moving forward. This is why the well off usually have the new technology. Early versions always cost more due to low production numbers - even a thought that GM will never make money from the Volt - the sunk costs were\are simply to high (though that debt might be gone as part of bankruptcy).

If they waited till the average person can afford it then it will never be done - the research costs are simply to high.

Be glad there are early adopters that can afford the cars - they will be the reason better\cheaper ones will follow.
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Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

reply to lolvoltlolz

reply to aurgathor
The Volt, at the current price is cheaper as Electricity which is domestically produced is about one quarter the equivalent cost of gas. Even at 4 bucks a gallon, the 40K volt is cheaper to own that a 20K car over its lifetime due to "fuel" savings

Electricity can come from coal, natural gas wind and solar, none of which we are in a world-wide competition to own.

Costs will come down and narrow the purchase price gap, but the days are over for people just looking at initial purchase price for comparisons.

reply to CylonRed

reply to guppy_fish

reply to lolvoltlolz
I would hardly call the Volt "just crap". It's a pretty amazing piece of technology. It's more advanced than the Prius, in my opinion. (I know that's an arguable point.)

The Volt's biggest problem is that it looks just like a $18,000 Chevy with a different name, but costs more than twice as much. There is nothing to distinguish it form the "cheap" car with a glance.

The Prius at least looks different, so it's distinguishable from the rest of the pack. I happen to think they're uglier than homemade sin, but they are distinctive.

With that said, I have no interest in either one. I prefer a good old fashioned V8, force fed or not, with all of its noise and inefficiency. Oh yeah, and rear-wheel shredding power.

reply to aurgathor

reply to Mospaw
The great majority of my cars were RWD and had at least 6 cylinders, but sometimes there's a value to a car that's not as thirsty as a drunken sailor.

The Volt can make sense if someone's daily commute can be done purely on battery power, otherwise it's a very questionable value.
I just drove a Chevy Aveo ($12k car) for ~6,000 miles ( »[Rave] Hertz rocks!! ) and got 33 highway mpg mostly on cruise control. Volt is specified at 40 highway mpg, and assuming 40,000 miles per year, $5 gasoline, the difference in gasoline cost is just a little over $1000, not counting the initial electricity only miles, but even if I double the savings to $2000 due to electricity only operation, it would take 14 years to for a Volt to be financially better than the Aveo. So it's no surprise that most people don't buy the Volt.
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Yes we Cain!

The Volt entire fleet is being monitored by Onstar and is showing about 77% of the miles driven is pure electric

I'm not buying one, but its really a 34K vehicle after the tax credit and its very similar to 28K fusion, so its more like 5K more to be a Electric Drive Train.

As to comparing it with the Aveo is apples to oranges, the Volts is more like a BMW or other high end sedan

For some reason, this car has people all relied up and a horde of active hatters, I have no dog in the hunt except I understand the technology and most of the haters arguments are just spewing BS

As to Sales, the Volt production is far behind hard orders, with the wait still 3-4 months and only nation wide roll out is happening now, GM has intentionally been slow to rap up, but we will know for sure what the true demand is next year.

The Ampra , the Volt for Europe is sold out thru 2012, that's 15K vehicles, all told GM is planned to produce 60K Volts next year, with the price of Oil back in the 100+ range, i would expect the 2012 to be sold out for the US production as well.

reply to Kearnstd
The technology just isn't there yet. The early adopters will always be the ones who had high hopes but there feelings crushed. Once money starts rolling in for new research we can see better technology and design. The majority of the problem with a all electric car is the fuel source. Batteries in a sense are just not good enough. They need to be able to charge up faster, contain more power, and be able to withstand harsh environments including crashes and safety mechanisms.

For any car manufacturer to invest all of their assets in electric is insane. I say in the short term we will be seeing more hybrid electric/gas or diesel in the future. Some new auto maker might come out with a all electric solution but in order for people to achieve 450 miles per charge is just something that's going to take time, money, and resources.

reply to Mospaw
Eh, it is a EV wantabe.

»content.usatoday.com/communities···n-leaf/1

So what it gets 20miles on a charge, and costs more than a prius to run.

I mean I drive 2 miles round trip on an average day... so I be all volts... but... Still never buy it lol. Cause I'm either doing 2 miles, or 200... the toyota is cheaper to buy, cheaper to run.

So where does the volt really win? I mean okay sure, toyota uses gas... but... it's a toyota... its WAY cheaper, and it overall is cheaper to power if you need to burn gas on the volt.

To me... it's crap. I would get the toyota, use gas, rather than get the volt, pay out the nose for it, so I could come home and need to plug it in just to save what... a few cents (that I lost buying it upfront)

IF CR is right... I mean could you ever pay off the volt over the toyota in battery only power savings?

Please note that nowhere in my post did I indicate that the Volt or even the Prius was a good economic choice, or cheaper to run than other cars. I said basically nothing on the issue, actually.

I agree that they're expensive cars, and with the little bit of driving I do (average 800 miles a month) the ROI would be longer than I'd keep the car.

I drive a large car with a V8 engine that averages 16MPG for my day-to-day driving. I don't mind that in the least. There are cars that would be cheaper to operate from a "fuel-only" standpoint, but probably wouldn't want to drive any of them (or even be seen in half of them). For me, economy isn't the main factor in my daily driver.

Whether the Volt is a poor economic decision really depends on the person buying it. Some people will save money with them compared to a Prius. Others won't. I know I won't. I don't want either one. Either way, a poor economic choice doesn't make a car crap. I realize that's your opinion, as is my post.

I'm still amazed by the technology in the Volt. I'm sure it will improve over time and come down in price. It's hardly crap. Same with the Prius, really. I don't like 'em, but I respect 'em.

reply to aurgathor
If they would actually make a hybrid that didn't look like CRAP. People might be interested in them. Looks do matter.

While some hybrids look a little strange in comparison to other cars, I don't see anything particularly crappy about them. They need to have bodies with as little aerodynamic drag as possible while maximizing passenger and cargo space, and so it shouldn't be too surprising that some hybrids (i,e. Insight, Prius) will look a bit unconventional.
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Arguing with an idiot makes you one.

reply to aurgathor
Ford's upcoming Escape is going away from the Hybrid option and using Ecotec gas engines instead. Says it gets better highway mileage (+5 MPG) than the hybrid at a lower cost.

That's probably because of the better engine and more aerodynamic body.

In city mpg where hybrids can run circles around non-hybrids.

On an open highway, the main gasoline saving features (low speed engine shutdown, regenerative breaking) normally don't see much use, if anything at all.
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Arguing with an idiot makes you one.