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NotAnAnon

@bell.ca

Axiety - it is not just you.

I am posting anon simply because I honestly fear future issues if this was linked with my real account. This is a long post and I doubt anyone will actually take the time to read it. But if you do, then God Bless you.

Mental Illnesses, even the "mild" ones (note the quotes) of Depression and Anxiety are still very much shuned in our culture. It has an effect of making you feel alone when you really need to not feel alone. In Ontario at least, seeing a OHIP covered psychologist is 6-12 month wait. Most GP's can only provide anti-depressants and do not have much experiance with the drugs beyond what the marketing gives.

If you are lucky your work will have an Employee Assistance Program which will give you 3-6 visits to a therapist with near no cost. Anyone who has been to a therapist can tell you it takes 2-3 visits to just to open up, and a therapist will tell you it takes a minimum of 20 hours to even start getting to the root of the issue. At $120 an hour for a therapist it is not cheap. Luckly some EAP's let you "re-up" a few times if the issues are different.

Personally I am dealing with Anxiety which is the "flip" of the coin to Depression. While I am not as brave as our fellow can-chatter who came out publically about his issue, I am at least weak-kneed enough to come out in an Anon state. I have Anxiety, and I probally have had it since I was very young. Most people do have it... it is one of the fastest growing issues in Mental Health as the world speeds up and we loose our connection to other people. Aniexty as one therapist is "simply fearing the unknown".

My Aniexty is more true 'fear'. It started a number of years ago when I went into a doctors appointment for a routine physical check and was told I had to see a specialist because some blood work was off. At the time I was highly stressed from economic issues, family changes, and moving into a new house. If anyone has read any "stress" books you will know anyone one of those is considered a High Stress event... having all 4 or 5 of them at once did a number on me.

The good news is, the health issue worked itself out. Diet changes and watching what I ate helped. What didn't help is I got into a bit of an eating disorder due to the health issue... I feared what I was eating was causing the medical issue. I lost a good chunck of weight. After some time that worked itself out.

What has taken even longer to work out is dealing with the Anxiety of the life events at that time. Even with seeing a therapist at the time... I didn't have a handle and wasn't ready to help myself. Now I find myself ready to help myself and limited resources to do the fixing.

The Worse Part of Anxiety and Depression is it can cause your body to do weird things. You can have panic attacks, bowel issues, aches and pains, sleeping issues, and just feel 'ill' at times.

I recently hurt myself doing something stupid and for months bounced through the medical system as doctors told me it would get better soon. It wasn't... What I didn't realized at the time was part of that reason was I was stressing out about the injury and my mind was centering on the issue. When a doctor told me it would be better in a few weeks it would "ease" and then pop back as a pain just like before. It wasn't until a nice Urgent Care doctor sent me for a simple ultrasound that the pain went away... why? I was able to 'see' that nothing was majorly hurt. It still hurts but in a diffrent way that is healing.

I am still getting pains and they are mostly centered on one side of my body where my Stress is located... and I am trying to exercise which is difficult when any pain you fear turns into a medical emergancy in your head (I am currently very much afraid of Cancer, with 1 or 2 I won't mention top of my mind due to knowing people very close to me but not related nearly terminal with them).

When I start having the worries I have to tell myself to 'stop' and breath. Anyone with Anxiety needs to learn to breath it does help. I am also taking classes on how to stretch more (Yoga but not Yoga) and using Utube of all things to help meditate better. As you relax your mind, your body follows and the pains due lesson. The tension goes away and that is a great help even with most pains.

I am typing this just in case someone else needs to read it and realize there is hope. While Anxiety typically does not include suicidal thoughts, if you have them please call a help line now. If you are not, but think you are stuck being the way you are forever, you won't be. Take each day as one day. Each hour as one hour. Get into therapy if you can, if you can't talk to your doctor NOW to see a professional as the wait is long enough.

Perhaps read "Don't sweat the small stuff". It's a small book, but it helped me.


mlppp

@acanac.net
i find allowing bi polar to just be.
is the best cure for both the major depression and anxiety aspect.
it has allowed me to really develop socially. but even then. its still there when i need to deal with the rat race that is the working class.

i have found that anti depressants do nothing but making it works. anxiety meds only are speed and that they know absollutely nothing about solving mental illnesses in health care.

your best bet is CMHA and getting a Councillor to come to your house for free, for the 3-6 months they'll do it for and to use that time to communicate and organize your wants a bit.

i find wearing headphones shuts out the very real, not paranoia , looks and words that people do participate in. the gossiping is part of the american idol culture i say.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to NotAnAnon
Send me an IM if you want. You have more in common with others here than you may think.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
I guess, the only way an anon post will contribute something useful is when it's posted by an existing registered member

You've got nothing to be ashamed of. Most of us have dealt with anxiety in the past even though not many will admit to it. I did for a couple of years and just talking to the people I trusted helped me claw my way out of it. Sometimes, getting professional help is the best course of action, but as you pointed out, it's unaffordable to many.
--
Never under estimate a Southern gentleman with a backhoe and a shotgun (credit: »blog.level3.com/2011/08/04/the-1 ··· r-cuts//)


mlppp

@acanac.net
thanks i appreciate that.
but still not gonna login


shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
reply to NotAnAnon
It's a sad commentary that you feel you have to post this anonymously. That's not a slight on you, but on society in general who feel mental health issues are somehow not as 'real' as physical health issues. Mental health is a real issue, and far too many, including myself, have chosen to suffer in silence because of the stigma. You are no less a human being because you are going through this. Kudos to you for seeking help, because too few people actually do.
--
I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to NotAnAnon
I'm sorry your in Ontario as in Alberta I could go down to the Urgent Care in Calgary and see a specialist in Mental Health (ie we have them in Emergency Clinics here) and then if I needed to see a psychologist afterward it certainly wouldn't take 6 to 12 months. Maybe in Alberta our system gets it concerning Mental Health.

Now for the rest of society getting it, they better prepare as I said before our current lifestyle is going to cause a lot of mental health problems for a lot of people (over worked, over stressed, sleep deprived, poor nutrition, collapse of the family unit and its support system, etc). Toss in feelings around loss of control with the world's economic disaster coming up and mental health problem are going to be more common then people would ever have dreamed of 20 years ago. I would strongly suggest that health systems review some of the mental health problems the dirty 30's caused as their coming back bigger then ever.

I changed my lifestyle (figured out I already had a pretty good carrot in hand, no need to keep chasing ones I wasn't going to get, or chase other people's carrots for them) three years ago and I bet I've slept more in the last 3 years, then I did in the previous 10 years for example as well I eat better (more fresh veggies for example), drink more water (no pop), eat almost no junk food, keep regular hours more often (heck I'm up and at work every morning by 7:30 am).

Blake
Edit the best part about my lifestyle change is I've seen more of my family in the last 3 years then I did in the previous 15 years, what a dope I was as I missed hanging out with a really cool family, hope I can make it up to them.


zacron
Premium
join:2008-11-26
canada
reply to NotAnAnon
Since my Girlfriend left me, My business tanked, I'm in debt to my ears, lost two family members, dropped out of college, am on the "system" and living with a friend who's female who has bi-polar and is a typical lazy teenager coupled with that you're trying to manage the building your in, your own business and you can see how quickly one can get overwhelmed.

I'm lucky! I have an A1 minister who has taken me under his wing so to speak... He's talked me through alot of things.

In the end, it's not how much you do, not how much you have nor how much you achieve. It's all about you feeling good about your accomplishments.

At the end of the day... you just have to say........ it's alright!

keep your head up mate
--
"Don't be dense, use common sense"
»/im/95892602/3 ··· 3467.png


Black Box

join:2002-12-21
reply to NotAnAnon
You are totally right. You are not alone. I had my episodes too. Heck, I have a major one right now. However, I'm one of the lucky ones because I know I'll be eventually OK without needing a doctor to tell me that and give me meds. I also know I have a few friends that will help me if I'll need it and this also helps. Most likely, you have somebody that you can rely on. If not, find someone. Most people are decent, compassionate human beings. Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. It's not a shame.
--
Keep It Safe, Stupid!
Yes, I CanChat. Can You?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to NotAnAnon
When I was young, I'd suffer from high degrees of anxiety leading up to social events or upcoming activities of importance to the point where I'd do anything I could to avoid participating and basically 'hide', otherwise I'd have too many nights without sleep, as I'd be sweating while my heart beat away at far too high a speed. This pretty much went on until my late teens or early 20's...

I'm not sure how I 'fixed' my issue, but since I picked up the habit of daily exercise, healthy eating to the extreme, and a strict sleeping regimen whenever possible, I find myself worrying about very little and engaging in activities socially and professionally that I'd never have considered a realistic situation I'd ever participate in.

It's possible that what fixed my issue was eliminating everything in my life that caused me concern, stress, worry and made myself healthy. This allowed me to enjoy a longer sleep and the exercise ensured I had a restful sleep, and a straight 8 hours of full night sleep, that can change the outcome of the next day.


Tenar

join:2008-01-02
Midland, ON

1 edit
reply to NotAnAnon

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzsV6ZwZ ··· V6ZwZvlQ


I like that guy's apps in the apple app store.
»itunes.apple.com/us/app/relax-an ··· 844?mt=8


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

It's possible that what fixed my issue was eliminating everything in my life that caused me concern, stress, worry and made myself healthy. This allowed me to enjoy a longer sleep and the exercise ensured I had a restful sleep, and a straight 8 hours of full night sleep, that can change the outcome of the next day.

There's a difference between anxiousness or fear and deep-seeded anxiety that you can't control. No amount of eliminating anything that causes concern, stress or worry will correct the anxiety or panic attacks that our not-really-anonymous friend described, and this is a particularly nasty situation when that anxiety is regarding something that you know in your mind is nothing to be worried about but you still experience panic attacks and fear over it. Sometimes that in itself makes matters worse - you know you shouldn't feel the way you do, but no amount of positive thinking or action your part can correct it, and you end up in a vicious cycle that migrates from anxiety to depression.

I'm not here to marginalize what you or anyone else here has said specifically, but there is a huge huge difference between being afraid of something, and anxiety. One you can fix yourself, the other can lead to depression and may require anything from psychotherapy to medication because you are simply unable to control it yourself. People need to keep that in mind.


SeanDeMarco

@cgocable.net
reply to urbanriot

Re: Anxiety - it is not just you.

I am crippled by it to this day. When I last worked a job it was because my fiancee at the time hired me. She was a manager at Subway and got permission or something to hire me and have me do prep work and cleaning only. I remember having people that worked for her ask me why I couldn't or why I didn't serve customers and so one day I said for them to watch me try. I barely got one leg and my head out to where the sandwiches are made. I can say that the feelings I get are paralyzing. I am not able to relax muscles and feel comfortable. I get chills and even seizure like twitches.
For years with this illness physicians, psychiatrists and psychologists ignored me when I said I was not bi-polar. Finally only a few years ago my psychiatrist finally acknowledged some of what I was saying and ordered a review in Toronto. I still haven't gotten to the appointment due to financial reasons but just as recent as 2 days ago or so I talked with someone from ODSP and she said she would be happy to pay the transportation up front instead of how it had been done before where they pay you back. It really should have been done the way she offered a long time ago. I need to be treated for extreme anxiety and not bi polar illness. I do not get the fake highs that people with this illness are said to get. I do get depressed though at times for reasons I can't explain though but really if I had a real life I don't think I would have as much time to think about it.
One other issue I had with my treatment over the years for anxiety problems was the fact that when I was in hospital as a youth and was enrolled in school they did not do a good job making sure I continued my education. In fact I remember them saying I seemed to ill to go but the thing is when they stabilized me they didn't even attempt to have me continue the work I was doing at a local school. They also thought by me working on 1 or 2 credits was enough which was a complete joke. They say they were trying to help me but by not making sure I was continuing my education they basically disabled me in another way.


SeanDeMarco

@cgocable.net
... and in terms of controlling your breathing that can help any person out in society as staying calm and relaxing is helpful in any situation

... sleep ... for me that is a thing that really isn't always positive even if I do develop a good sleep pattern as once I am fresh and wide awake again I realize I have nothing to do in the day and hate my life lol

dsanfte

join:2005-03-15
UK
reply to NotAnAnon

Re: Axiety - it is not just you.

I go through a lot of what you mentioned, every single day. Paranoia, anxiety, and... panic attacks.

For those, I've learned to hide them so nobody else can tell...I may be just sitting there doodling, but inside I'm coming apart, drowning in primal dread, as a wave of fear erupts and passes over me.

But, I put myself back together again and carry on as if nothing was wrong. Because what else can you do?

I have stories I could tell, but then I imagine we all do. Everyone has their reasons, psychological or biological. We deal with them and carry on our lives as best we can (or don't). I wish there were easier answers for everyone, because god knows it can be rough sometimes.

Crescent
Premium
join:2003-01-22
canada
reply to NotAnAnon
I used to have anxiety, low-self esteem and mild depression.
For the last almost 16 years I do not.

I moved to BC.
It was not BC that made the difference, it was getting away from blood family that made all of the difference in the world.
Life is good, I can handle the most arrogant, racist @hole in the world now with out getting upset now.

I get upset about what they do, I take actions to prevent what they do but it no longer affects me when the most demeaning person in my life, my sister is out of my life.

Even now she tried to do the worst possible thing to me, by getting people to think that I have mental health problems and depression problems.
Lucky for me, I have such good friends for support that know that I am the last person in the world to be unhappy and depressed.
They have seen me start a business, 15 1/2 years ago have the normal downs and ups, I always approach things with a smile. They look up to me as the model of how to do things.

So 2 points I am trying to make.
One the stigma about mental health
2 depression may not be from within your self, but people that you think you should trust.


noelstrom
meh.
Premium
join:2003-04-07
London, ON

1 recommendation

reply to NotAnAnon
There's so much I can sink my teeth into here in this thread. So I'll give it a go. I apologize if it seems like this post rambles on. But, you're all lucky to catch me on a decent (for me) day, so I'll wax poetic for a bit.

To the OP - congrats. While you posted this thread 'undercover', you still made it public. You talked to someone outside of your close circle, even if it's just pixels on a screen, and virtual internet friends. The significance of this can not be overstated. It wasn't too long ago that I was where you are. I didn't feel I could talk to anyone - no one could possibly understand where I was coming from. Prior to this latest episode, I was very open and honest about both having depression, and suffering from bi-polar disorder. In fact, I currently sit on my union's National Equity Committee as the representative for workers with disabilities. Not ever organization recognizes mental illnesses as disabilities, and I am lucky that both my union and my employer do recognize this fact.

Nonetheless, you have made a major step forward, and one that should be recognized. Many, many people choose to suffer in silence - either because they truly see no other way, or they have bought into the stereotypical societal view that those of us with mental illnesses are weak. And yes, at this moment in time, going through a major episode as I am, I do feel weak. But I'll NEVER allow myself to suffer alone again. And neither should you.

And shaner See Profile you're absolutely right. It's nothing short of shameful the way we are treated in society. That stigma needs to be broken, and it needs to be broken yesterday. Just before this episode I'm in, I was in conversations with none other than Michael Landsberg, trying to find a way we could do something together to promote this breaking of the stigma. What I have decided to do, in my own way I suppose, is talk about it at every opportunity. I can see myself, once I'm back to working full time, and once my life is back under control going and talking to groups of people about what it is like to have a mental illness. And show them all that I'm not that much different than them. As long as I'm taking my meds when I'm supposed to, and recognize episodes when they arise, then I can do everything anyone else can.

Again, to the OP, whomever you are. You are not alone. Ever. If you ever need anyone to talk to, call me. My email address is noelDOTburgonATgmailDOTcom.(replace DOTs for . and well, you get the rest...). If you email me, and want to talk, I'll forward my phone number to you. And just like that, you never have to feel like you have to endure this alone again.

That offer is out there for anyone here who feels they may need it. And even if all you need to do is vent to someone outside of your situation, I get it. I feel that way too sometimes.

That goes for anyone else reading this. God gave me two ears and one mouth. I'll listen to whatever you need to vent off about. And speak only if you need me to. There's no reason in today's day and age that anyone with a mental illness such as anxiety disorder, depression or bi-polar disorder ever needs to suffer in silence.

And, if you happen to be within driving distance from London, and you know of a group of people that could benefit from a first hand account of what it's like, and hearing that they to don't have to suffer alone and there is help out there, then please do give me a shout at the email above. I'm pretty cheap as far as guest speakers go. All I'll charge is my gas money if I have to drive, and a 3 cream 2 sugars coffee form your nearest coffee retailer.

OP, you have my info. I'm here if you need me.
--
DISCLAIMER: Advice from noelstrom is for entertainment purposes only. noelstrom is not a licensed therapist, lawyer or medical professional. The role of noelstrom may be played by a revolving panel of wise a**ses. Do not taunt noelstrom.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to NotAnAnon
Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I don't suffer from anxiety disorder or depression, but I have family members who do. I volunteer as a board member of the outpatient mental health and addiction service provider in our community. I know the gaps in the system is in Ontario, first hand. I also know that there are a lot of folks who are committed to helping others.

I'm a firm believer in bringing discussions of mental health issues into the mainstream conversation. I believe that we can and should talk about anxiety, depression, bi-polar disorder and addictions (yes, they are all related) as part of our normal, everyday conversation.

Let's keep the conversation going.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to NotAnAnon
I had a huge bout of depression back when I was in high school due to smoking Marijuana. Actually, I think I'm really sensitive to THC, because the effects are quite a lot stronger than what it should be.

Anyhow, the advice here seems really good. I'd add that you should stay away from any drugs, or alcohol,(as they are depressants) and try doing some running. I know you said that it's hard for you to do exercise, but running is known to help people bounce back from depression.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X



mlppp

@acanac.net
smoking mj is one of the few times in life when i can feel happy.
mj is know solution for depression, with science to back it up.
but i will give you, that once you feel the euphoria from the mj, going without it can be a problem for a couple days


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

1 recommendation

And here's the example of the other type of anonymous posters.. I have nothing against cannabis and I see some therapeutic uses. However, you don't treat depression with a depressant drug. It's more likely to aggravate the condition. If you are suffering from depression, talking to somebody you trust (assuming you can't afford a therapist) would be a lot more productive.
--
Never under estimate a Southern gentleman with a backhoe and a shotgun (credit: »blog.level3.com/2011/08/04/the-1 ··· r-cuts//)


mlppp

@acanac.net
it is actually both a short term stimulant and a depressant in after effects.
there is different varieties. indica would yes be more of a put you out. but sativa' has been found very effective for anxiety.
i have lived it. you don't need to try and convince me of what i know through experience.

Crescent
Premium
join:2003-01-22
canada
reply to Crescent
What scares the "poo" out of me is I DO NOT feel depressed, yet family members 4000 km east of me think I am.
Being away from them make me amazingly happy. All my friends and business associates can not believe thoughts that I may be depressed.

I whole heartedly agree with them!

A recent battle I had with the drug-pushing medical profession makes me stronger and better person. The fear of going into hospital, drugged out, looking like a cow, put food in, $hit comes out, standing there with little personality remaining makes the thought of staying away from hurtful family people even stronger.

How do I convince people I am happy without drugs?
How do I convince people I so not have to go shopping to make me feel happy, need a newer, younger wife, the list goes on?
I need not convince anyone around me here in BC. They have spoken up for me in better, shorter, simpler ways than I could ever say.

It seems I have won!

I do not like the word fight, as I am not trying to put anyone down.

All I can say is peace is with me, it always has. It is only stronger.
Life is good, it is only getting better.

I am taking weaker people along with my happiness, I can feel it spread.

I hate the above as it sounds like a religious nut. I am not I have no religion. I have hate for no person, only actions.
Follow me if you so desire, let me go if that pleases you too.

Peace
Do nothing to hurt.
Just be happy.
For me it is not hard!


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to mlppp
said by mlppp :

smoking mj is one of the few times in life when i can feel happy.
mj is know solution for depression, with science to back it up.
but i will give you, that once you feel the euphoria from the mj, going without it can be a problem for a couple days

It's a well-known non-medicinal treatment called "self-medication". There are better and more healthy treatments available for depression.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


mlppp

@acanac.net
what would these be. i am looking for more. can't afford weed. even though it stimulates melatonin production which is a precurser of seratonin.

i already take melatonin .


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by mlppp :

what would these be. i am looking for more. can't afford weed. even though it stimulates melatonin production which is a precurser of seratonin.

i already take melatonin .

Talk to a mental health clinic. As I said, there are options.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


mlppp

@acanac.net
oh, my concellors have agreed with me about not taking drugs from doctors for anxiety and depression. and to find natural ways.
i did try your idea for 13 years, doesn't work.


Jackorama

join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON

1 recommendation

reply to NotAnAnon
Thanks for posting. Reading all these posts reminds me what I have been going through all my life and having only myself to deal with it. Anger at myself that I will be dealing with it until I die. Anger at myself for not succeeding in life when I was so close and stopped because of the fear. Anger because I fail at finding the help I need.

The anxiety I feel for the unknown was beyond my control. As a child if I had to go somewhere alone in a part of my school that I never been before, I would run and hide in a park near my home until school was over and then go home. It happened a lot. If I were away from my parents, to spend a night at my grandma's or a friend's house, I would get physically sick. Now, if I have an appointment somewhere I've never been before, I go early to check it out first and make sure I familiar my self with the area. This helps with future visits. But, I just can't get to that last step of succeeding in life.

All this because I as a small child was abducted by strangers back sometime in 1969/70. Just lifted me up from behind with a hand over my mouth so I wouldn't scream and over my back yard fence I went being carried off by someone I didn't know. My father had just gone in the house to grab something, he was only inside the door for a very short time. But, that is all it took. I think it was winter, because I can remember making snowmen. But, I could be wrong on that. Mom, was bathing my baby brother at that time. I don't put any blame on my parents, they have been and always will be great parents to my brother and I. It was my parents worst nightmare coming true. The first time I saw my mother cry was when I was a teenager and tried to talk to her about it. It broke my heart to see her cry.

I never had closure with this because the abductors were 3 kids, I think, somewhere between the ages of 11 and 13. And from what little I was told, the police came back to talk to the parents the next day (they weren't around the day it happened) and they had did a runner in the middle of the night. They had left everything behind. The police couldn't or wouldn't do much because I wouldn't talk about it. Hmm, maybe it being just what happened to me or the fact that the police man looked to big and scary to small child of 3 or 4.

The police where looking for me, but it was my mother who found me naked and crying. She told me she couldn't hear me screaming and crying for her. She just had this feeling I was in this house and when she opened the door my clothes were on the floor. She screamed my name and my abductors let me go just before they were going to put me in the bathtub filled with water. I ran down the stairs to my mother who dressed me and took me home. I was lucky, because the bathtub was where I was going to meet my end. I have left out a lot of what happened in between, I can't talk about it here.

I talked to my doctor about it, but I was not offered any help. I asked him if I should try and get the original police report about it. The doctor seems to think that would help. I don't know if it could be found or who to contact about it. I'm also afraid to get it, I'm afraid of what is in it.

Sorry, I didn't start out to write this much, I hope these posts help others.
--
"Whenever they invent something that's moron proof, someone comes by and invents a better moron."

"Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who do."


Jackorama

join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON
I just wanted to add that at that time there was no counselling or hospital check-up for kids like me. It was presumed by the police that I was young enough that I would soon forget what happened. I never did.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to mlppp
said by mlppp :

oh, my concellors have agreed with me about not taking drugs from doctors for anxiety and depression. and to find natural ways.
i did try your idea for 13 years, doesn't work.

Your call. I have found, over the years, that self medication doesn't work.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.