Topic 'Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?' in forum 'Security' - dslreports.com

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:15:43 EDT

ashrc4 posted : Is this an appropriate method to flush prior connection issues/connections for win7 wifi?

"open search, type "services.msc" open services.
Scroll down to "wlan auto config" right click, stop the service.

Navigate to
"C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Wlansvc\ delete everything in this folder leaving only a folder called "profiles" delete everything in the "profiles" folder except for a folder called "interfaces" delete everything in the "interfaces" folder)

Restart "wlan auto config" connect to your wireless network, enter
your passkey, (ensure the connect automaticly box is checked)

Restart your computer job done, your computer will now connect to your wireless network automaticly on boot."

from article;»answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind···d1825dd8
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:12:40 EDT

ashrc4 posted : My only thoughts are in relation to prior attempts to login that remain persistant.
I tried to connect to neighbours connection once to see if they were using default password. Even though i then changed it it to a rediculously long password that i randomly typed (to prevent further connection issues) it still tries to automatically connect. Unticking the "automatically connect" box does not work. It remains persistant on re-boot (win7).
Perhaps something similar is occurring here.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:01:01 EDT

freebird317 posted : Do you have UPNP enabled on your router?

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:14:56 EDT

rcdailey posted : One other thing occurred to me. Do you have an iPhone, or another smart phone? If you do, can you check the WiFi connections shown in that? If there are other networks out there they may be visible to that device.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:00:59 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by PapaDos:

What is the "Discovery Method" (shown in details view of Network, you might have to add the column..) for the "intruders" ?

Interesting, I didn't know this was something that was 'viewable' till now.

It is WSD for the computers section.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:59:16 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by rcdailey:

Apart from this mystery, do you like the Belkin and want to keep using it? Have you posted in any Belkin support forum about the issue? From what you say it is so specific to your particular setup that it may not be something anyone has experienced before.

I thought the Belkin had very strong signal strength... much more so than my old Linksys router, and more so than the single band E1200 Linksys router I ultimately replaced it with.

But it did lack some features that I think should be 'standard' on routers in this price range (really, on any routers)... such as dhcp reservations, and the ability to release and renew the WAN IP without reboot.

When I get the time, and it may not be for a few weeks, I do plan on trying to engage Belkin support to see if I can go up their support ladder and figure this out with an engineer.

Till then, if anyone has any ideas... throw them my way!

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:35:15 EDT

PapaDos posted : What is the "Discovery Method" (shown in details view of Network, you might have to add the column..) for the "intruders" ?
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:28:31 EDT

rcdailey posted : Apart from this mystery, do you like the Belkin and want to keep using it? Have you posted in any Belkin support forum about the issue? From what you say it is so specific to your particular setup that it may not be something anyone has experienced before.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:36:44 EDT

dave posted : Is the Belkin in 'gateway' mode or 'bridge' mode? (does it even have the options?)

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:00:48 EDT

ADKTech posted : Updates:

I have a Verizon Mifi mobile broadband device. When I activate it and connect my laptop to that, this problem goes away.

Also, I took the Belkin router to my parent's house, who have a different ISP. No such problem.

So, if I eliminate either the ISP or the Belkin from the equation, the problem disappears. Only when they are both working together does it apear.

I am about as convinced as I can be that this is a combination of my ISP and that Belkin Router. My ISP has things configured in such a way, and that Belkin handles routing in such a way, that these 'rogue' machines - which I am now convinced are other customers on the ISP network - show up in my Network.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:55:24 EDT

ADKTech posted : Hi Name Game,

Both bands were given unique SSIDs with strong WPA2-Personal passwords.

Guest networking was turned off.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:46:54 EDT

Name Game posted : Like previous routers from Belkin, such as the Play Max, the N750 DB comes preconfigured with two wireless networks, one on each band, with their names and encryption keys printed on a label attached to its body. This way, if you don't want to bother with setting up networks, you can just use the router with the default configuration. We'd recommend changing these, however, as the provided network names and encryption keys are hard to remember.

The N750 DB is a true dual-band router, meaning it offers two separate wireless networks simultaneously, one in the ever-popular 2.4GHz band and the other in the newer, clean 5GHz band. Its 5GHz band even supports the higher 450Mbps Wireless-N standard (as opposed to the 300Mbps of most Wireless-N routers). The router also offers a comprehensive guest networking feature, which allows guest wireless clients to access the Internet but not other local resources such as a printer or files. It can work like a public hot spot by making unknown users log in via a Web page, giving the owner more control over the connected clients. Guest networking is only available on the 2.4GHz band.

»reviews.cnet.com/routers/belkin-···iewPage1
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:01:49 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by caffeinator:

Sounds like a used router that still had leases/MAC adresses for it's old connections.

This was a new router, although I suppose it is possible they packaged a used one in a new box... but...

Try doing a factory reset on the Belkin.

I did this and it persisted. I also checked the dhcp table and the only machine registered with the router were my personal computers.

Oh, and be sure to disable remote access and make sure its not using default Admin passwords...lists of those are easy to find online. ;)

You bet, first thing I do when I buy a new router. This Belkin had a very unique password assigned to it.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:50:46 EDT

caffeinator posted : Sounds like a used router that still had leases/MAC adresses for it's old connections.

Hell, if I fired up my IPcop box from 2008 it'd still show leases for my LAN buddies computers from that time. Of course they aren't valid, but they'd show up.

Try doing a factory reset on the Belkin.

»en-us-support.belkin.com/app/ans···e-router

I had one I bought used a few years ago...was fullll of old crap. Only way to clean it out was a full reset.

Oh, and be sure to disable remote access and make sure its not using default Admin passwords...lists of those are easy to find online. ;)

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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 19:35:50 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by snm :

Some routers or dsl modem/router devices especially those with SMB file sharing capability for USB disks look like computers on the network (from the point of view of the OS) and the OS creates a faux computer in explorer. Bing for the actual name of the unknown PC on the network and see if anyone else has reported the same exact or very similar name for the faux PC.

It does appear as though the mysterious "router" computer was in fact what you are saying... a part of the Belkin's feature set, specifically its file sharing feature.

However, the other computers I saw cam and went - new ones popped up occasionally - and some of them had names like "grandmascompute" - so I don't think they were device names.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 19:14:59 EDT

anon posted : Some routers or dsl modem/router devices especially those with SMB file sharing capability for USB disks look like computers on the network (from the point of view of the OS) and the OS creates a faux computer in explorer. Bing for the actual name of the unknown PC on the network and see if anyone else has reported the same exact or very similar name for the faux PC.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:44:42 EDT

ADKTech posted : Hey guys,

I am back home now. I swapped in my old router and this problem went away almost immediately.

I also brought home with me a new Linksys E1200. I set that up, and this problem did not exist.

Clearly, something related to the Belkin... right?

The Belkin was running on factory defaults (with only basic IP and wifi changes) - I even did a factory reset of it, and the problem persisted.

Now we know WHAT caused the problem. But we don't know WHY. I'm willing to continue on with this till we get to the bottom of it, but I am personally out of ideas. I'd be willing to run any tests or do any troubleshooting you think might help us learn more.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:07:39 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted : 1) With your router unplugged from power, use your laptop to scan for wireless networks and see what's out there.

2) Make sure that all manner of 'sharing' is turned off in Windows 7

3) Reboot the laptop

4) Scan the wireless neighborhood again and see what pops up.

5) Factory-reset the router. Connect to it via a wired connection, reconfigure it but turn off wireless connections.

6) Scan the 'hood' for wireless AP's again.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:07:52 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted : You can try running wireshark

»www.wireshark.org/

It may give you information on what is occurring.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:20:40 EDT

EGeezer posted : Have you turned off network discovery, verified firewall settings on the PC and router and gotten a response from your ISP?

You could turn off wireless for a test period to see if the systems continue to pop up. If they do, that would eliminate the wireless discovery as a source.

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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:17:09 EDT

sk1939 posted : True.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:39:41 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted :

said by sk1939:

Could be the firewall is unconfigured allowing "any any" through.

Since the router is NAT it would have to be configured to forward the sharing ports for unsolicited packets to get through, even if the firewall was disabled.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:37:38 EDT

sk1939 posted : Could be the firewall is unconfigured allowing "any any" through.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:36:35 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted :

said by OviedoJoe:

There was a problem here locally when a rogue cable installer started cloning mac addresses on cable modems using customer information he stole and selling them for profit

That should not allow any traffic past his router.

Without traffic getting past his router no one could show up as part of his network unless his computer were broadcasting sharing information and his router was forwarding the info onto the WAN network. If traffic is getting past his router it is simply a configuration error or his computer is owned.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:29:11 EDT

OviedoJoe posted : There was a problem here locally when a rogue cable installer started cloning mac addresses on cable modems using customer information he stole and selling them for profit. I don't know for sure how this would appear on the network of the valid customer. You might try getting your cable modem changed and suggest to the cable operator that you suspect something is going on.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 03:16:11 EDT

rcdailey posted : But will the range be 100 yards or even 100 meters, for example? The OP seems to have some knowledge of how close his neighbors are. Maybe when he takes the Belkin out of service, he will find out.

Edit: Something I did not think about is the possibility that some neighbor with direct line-of-sight to the OP's property might be using an directional WiFi antenna and happened upon the signal from the Belkin and found a way to connect. It doesn't seem likely, but . . . .

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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:43:34 EDT

PapaDos posted : I know, but the new generation of N routers are pretty amazing in that regard. With my previous G router, I could see between 4 and 10 other Wireless APs. With the new one, I can see more than twice as much, even if their signal is extremely weak...
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:39:26 EDT

Noah Vail posted :

said by Archivis:

said by sk1939:

The only thing I can think of is that a long time ago, most cable operators didn't operate with encryption over their networks. As a result, if you didn't have a router/firewall, it was one giant metro network with everyone in the neighborhood seeing everyone else.

Those were the good old days.

I agree.
What made it still better was the magic-marriage of CodeRed/Nimda & Win2k.

NV
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:57:43 EDT

rcdailey posted : If you look back in the thread, you'll see that the OP says he does not have any neighbors, no one close enough for a wireless connection.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:28:24 EDT

PapaDos posted : ROUTER is your Belkin and it is normal for it to show up in the "computer" list since it has some file server capabilities, my Linksys E4200 does the same thing.

The other entries are probably from neighbors unprotected wireless. I see some unknown printers once in a while on my machines too. My router is new and I haven't investigated the unknown printers issue yet but I believe they are "discovered" by W7/Vista PCs through the LLTD protocol (It probably uses MAC addresses not IPs...). I don't think there is reason to be alarmed by this but I will try to keep an eye on this thread out of curiosity. ;)

You can try to disable LLTD and/or UPnP at the router level or in your W7 PC settings to see if those "intruders' keep showing up...
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:00:07 EDT

ADKTech posted : I'm on the road now, attending to a work network problem (ironic, right?), but I plan on swapping out that Belkin router when I get home just to see if we can pinpoint the problem to it... or eliminate it as a possible culprit.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:48:56 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by dave:

The router is pingable by name. At least, that's the way I interpreted this:

EXCEPT for the 'router' entry, which resolves to my gateway (the Belkin router)

Yes, this is correct. The router is pingable by the name "router". It resolves to the 192.168.x.1 address that I assign it

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:47:29 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by EGeezer:

OK, this is getting interesting - Wish I had a WIN7 machine to play with...

Have you used the PC(s) on any other network(s) by any chance? If so, WIN7 could have discovered them and kept them in the network list.

Yes, this laptop has been on other networks. This was why I originally thought that maybe what I was seeing here was a case of 'ghosting' - machines stuck in cache that were once browseable when the laptop was on another network.

Problem with that theory is that these machines are coming and going. They drop in and out of the network window, and just today a completely new one (one I have not seen before) appeared.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:49:55 EDT

THZNDUP posted : Another possible way to figure out what is happening would be to see where those names are being stored in the registry.

Do a full registry search for one of the 'rogue' names-grandmascomputer or Blacksmith would probably work best. I'd avoid any generic names like 'router' etc. Find all instances and what keys it is associated with.

I wouldn't do much for now except find them. I'd keep a running list of the 'rogue' names also.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:26:08 EDT

anon posted :

said by dave:

The router is pingable by name. At least, that's the way I interpreted this:

EXCEPT for the 'router' entry, which resolves to my gateway (the Belkin router)

read just above that quote - OP said all rouges were unpingable. »Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

When asked if "host not found" or "time out", OP stated the quote above. I understood that to mean it resolved "router", but RTO unpingable .. and so why I asked.

just seemed that they all should be named the Belkin name if it is all 3 the same device - not one with the cname 'router' all with the same IP. Different cname, but same IP = conflict unless it isn't the same device after all.

Imma stepping aside now, :)

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:05:14 EDT

dave posted : The router is pingable by name. At least, that's the way I interpreted this:

EXCEPT for the 'router' entry, which resolves to my gateway (the Belkin router)

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:58:20 EDT

anon posted :

said by dave:

said by JALevinworth :

It's normal. If a thing fulfils 3 entirely different functions, it shows up 3 times.

My Windows home server shows up as a 'computer' (because it implements Windows file and printer sharing) and as an 'other' (some web/upnp thing by which clients can discover the server).

Actually, it's even better - in my house, the same physical computer shows up as 3 separate media devices (because it is capable of streaming 3 different libraries - different user names)

Thanks dave ... I can see and agree with what you say, I just don't get how this router would (in addition to the other 2) show up under the "computer" section with the computername of "router" and also has the same IP as the router, although not responding to ping with cname "router"

Am I still incorrect about that seeming off?
-Jim

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:55:41 EDT

dave posted : In addition to net view, try nbtstat -c and nbtstat -r to list netbios name resolutions. Then we may know where the names come from.

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:43:40 EDT

dave posted :

said by JALevinworth :

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:41:54 EDT

Archivis posted :

said by sk1939:

Those were the good old days.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:10:10 EDT

Name Game posted : Naw,,that is not an add wireless device screen...that, including "add a printer" are buttons to push to do so. If OP would have shown the whole pic..it would have looked something like this.....

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:59:51 EDT

anon posted :

said by EGeezer:

The screenshot in your OP appears to be the "add wireless device" screen. In that case, it may show past connections that it has discovered on other networks.

Good catch, EGeezer

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:48:38 EDT

EGeezer posted : The screenshot in your OP appears to be the "add wireless device" screen. In that case, it may show past connections that it has discovered on other networks.

Go to the "Control Panel/All Control Panel items/Network and Sharing Center" screen and do a screen print. That screen should show your current and active connection(s).

See »www.addictivetips.com/windows-ti···ndows-7/ for the screen I mentioned as well as instructions on how to turn off network discovery in WIN7.
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:43:46 EDT

anon posted :

said by ADKTech:

If I try to ping the computer names it gives a "host could not be found" message for all of the 'rogue' entries...

EXCEPT for the 'router' entry, which resolves to my gateway (the Belkin router)

If "router" resolves to the same IP as your belkin router, then you are now seeing 3 entries for it as shown in your image above? "Router" under the Computer section; Belkin N750DB Wireless Router: 1 under Media Devices; AND also the same under Network Infrastructure? That doesn't seem right.

Do you have anything else plugged into the router, like a USB media drive?

Do you have UPNP enabled in the router?

Do you have guest access enabled in the router?

If so, have you tried disconnecting and/or disabling these functions, and ALSO powering everything down (modem, router, remaining laptop from the outside in? (Meaning all OFF, then powering up each one at a time completely before proceeding to the next.. modem, then router, then laptop)

-Jim

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:37:55 EDT

EGeezer posted : OK, this is getting interesting - Wish I had a WIN7 machine to play with...

Have you used the PC(s) on any other network(s) by any chance? If so, WIN7 could have discovered them and kept them in the network list.

It seems you should be able to turn off discovery somewhere in the settings and should be able to delete those spurious connections on the page where you see them. (Right click, "delete", perhaps?)

Lastly, I'd call the ISP to regale them with the details of the things that are popping up, and see what they say.

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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:53:19 EDT

Name Game posted : Do you have an Ipod or use Bonjour ? Ever hook them up to that laptop or similar device.

Also see this link
»forums.techguy.org/general-secur···ork.html
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Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:51:28 EDT

sk1939 posted : My best guess is that they're propagating from the internet somehow, but that shouldn't be the case if you have the firewall on your router enabled. What are the settings on your Belkin set to at the moment?

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:46:47 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by towerdave:

But does it say Host Not Found, or Request Timed Out? If RTO, it should show an IP address that you can compare to your public IP that your ISP provides to the cable modem.

TD

If I try to ping the computer names it gives a "host could not be found" message for all of the 'rogue' entries...

EXCEPT for the 'router' entry, which resolves to my gateway (the Belkin router)

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:36:14 EDT

towerdave posted :

said by ADKTech:

said by towerdave:

If you ping those names in a Command window, do they resolve to an IP address? Do the IPs fall in the same subnet as yours? (are the first 3 numbers the same)

TD

I am unable to ping or connect to them.

But does it say Host Not Found, or Request Timed Out? If RTO, it should show an IP address that you can compare to your public IP that your ISP provides to the cable modem.

TD

Re: Unknown computers on local network - cable isp problem?

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:34:45 EDT

ADKTech posted :

said by towerdave:

If you ping those names in a Command window, do they resolve to an IP address? Do the IPs fall in the same subnet as yours? (are the first 3 numbers the same)

TD

I am unable to ping or connect to them.