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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

... in practically every regard.

Ironic how reports about bandwidth costs dropping dramatically are equally matched by the latest ISP announcing caps and overages and moving towards UBB profiteering.

... and as for consumers voting with their wallets.... there's now not a single broadband ISP I can choose that isn't capping and charging more for usage. So much for the "free market."

Bring on Muni-Fi.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

Ironic indeed.

Meanwhile I passed 40 Terabytes on my seedbox the other day for 18 bucks a month.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by DataRiker:

Meanwhile I passed 40 Terabytes on my seedbox the other day for 18 bucks a month.

Hmm, hard to imagine why residential ISPs are clamping down and securing the means to further monetize consumer behavior.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by openbox9:

said by DataRiker:

Meanwhile I passed 40 Terabytes on my seedbox the other day for 18 bucks a month.

Hmm, hard to imagine why residential ISPs are clamping down and securing the means to further monetize consumer behavior.

Yep and why they are trying to pass stupid laws like SOPA. You don't download 40 TB of legal stuff in a month.
Poguemahone0

join:2010-05-27
united state

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by 88615298:

said by openbox9:

said by DataRiker:

Meanwhile I passed 40 Terabytes on my seedbox the other day for 18 bucks a month.

Hmm, hard to imagine why residential ISPs are clamping down and securing the means to further monetize consumer behavior.

Yep and why they are trying to pass stupid laws like SOPA. You don't download 40 TB of legal stuff in a month.

That's kind of a "strawman" thing to say. I could easily do that with nothing but downloading my entire Steam library and streaming legal Netflix, etc. Torrents are boogeymen that people throw around like they're still relevant. Sure, piracy is out there, but torrents aren't the main reason for congestion.

C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium
join:2009-01-17
00000
kudos:3

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

are you shitting me? you could hit 40 TERAbytes in one month with nothing but legal consumption for one person?

you really have 1,000 steam games at 40 Gigabytes each? what did that cost you, 50,000 dollars?
Poguemahone0

join:2010-05-27
united state

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by C_Chipperson:

are you shitting me? you could hit 40 TERAbytes in one month with nothing but legal consumption for one person?

you really have 1,000 steam games at 40 Gigabytes each? what did that cost you, 50,000 dollars?

I thought he said 4TB. I mean, I have 300+ Steam games that average around 2-25 GBs per game. You do the math. I have a 1TB drive that's mostly filled with completely legal Steam purchases. Mind you, most of these are from the annual Steam sales. But the fact remains that you can easily go over 250 GBs per month on a 3MB DSL line doing completely legal things, and anyone that says otherwise is just being willfully ignorant of the media applications of the current generation internet.

Nice O&A reference, by the way.

C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium
join:2009-01-17
00000
kudos:3

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

Thanks hope I didn't come off too strong. I intentionally try to break throughout comcasts 250 gb cap, and the best I could do was 263 gb including several seasons of popular tv shows as 1080p mkv files, 20 or so 1080p mkv movies, a couple steam games, and a few other things. I just can't fathom legally breaking 250 gb.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by C_Chipperson:

Thanks hope I didn't come off too strong. I intentionally try to break throughout comcasts 250 gb cap, and the best I could do was 263 gb including several seasons of popular tv shows as 1080p mkv files, 20 or so 1080p mkv movies, a couple steam games, and a few other things. I just can't fathom legally breaking 250 gb.

250 GB yes. 40 TB or even 4 TB, no.

A family of 4 each watching just 1 hour per day each of Netflix at it highest bitrate would use 275 GB a month. I don't think 1 hour of Netflix is excessive, yet it exceeds the cap.

What I find ironic is that ISPs pay ESPN for the right to allow ESPN3 streaming to their customers. A cost which is surely passed on to said customers. But if the customers try to stream ESPN3 they are told they are going to go over some cap and get their service cut off or will be charged an overage fee. And the ISPs then try to pass ESPN3 off as some sort of extra benefit.

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
Why does everyone assume there's only one person using the internet connection at a household?

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by Thaler:

Why does everyone assume there's only one person using the internet connection at a household?

I don't. We have 3 computers, a game console and 3 smarthphones.

Here's the facts. Netflix at best uses 2.3 GB per hour. Now assume ALL of one's Netflix viewing is at this bitrate( and not all of Netflix's content is available at the highest bitrate ) and one streamed Netflix 24/7 that would uses 1.6 TB a month. Even if you had 4 people in the household doing this that would be 6.4 TB. That's still 1/6 of 40 TB.

Now let's say each person is also streaming music 24/7 and is streaming at 320 Kbps( not many online streaming services actually stream music at this bitrate by the way ) that's another 400 GB per month

Ok let's say each of the 4 people downloads a demo game for a XBOX 360 or PS3 per day.( are there that many demos? I don't think so but let's play along ) each demo is say 1.5 GB. That's another 180 GB a month.

Let's also assume none of these people sleep and while listening to music and watching Netflix they also play XBOX or PS3 online 24/7 also. That's at best another 400 GB per month.

Now for some crazy reason these 4 people also have enough devices( and bandwidth ) that they can all stream ESPN3 24/7( 3500 Kbps bitrate ). That would be roughly 4 TB a month.

OK so even under this extreme condition I get 11.4 TB. Still not anywhere close to 40 TB.

C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium
join:2009-01-17
00000
kudos:3
Because that's how i thought his post was written. Why would anyone need to download 4tb of games in a single month?

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

Coming from a family that uses modern conveniences (Xbox, Steam, PS3, etc.), I know that we often don't agree upon a single entertainment decision as a collective hole. We sometimes do (ie. family movie nights), but the norm is that each user acts as their own autonomous entity in the digital world.

I usually only take the single-user consideration when it's explicitly stated. If that was the case here and I missed it, I'm sorry.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by 88615298:

said by openbox9:

said by DataRiker:

Meanwhile I passed 40 Terabytes on my seedbox the other day for 18 bucks a month.

Hmm, hard to imagine why residential ISPs are clamping down and securing the means to further monetize consumer behavior.

Yep and why they are trying to pass stupid laws like SOPA. You don't download 40 TB of legal stuff in a month.

I didn't download anything, I uploaded a file which was perfectly legal.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by DataRiker:

I didn't download anything, I uploaded a file which was perfectly legal.

you don't upload 40 TBs a month. If you used your connection for nothing but uploading you'd have to max out your connection 24/7 and your connection would have to have 130 Mbps upload. No one has that.
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

It's a seedbox, it's 99% likely not on his home connection, but rented and sitting in a data center somewhere. They probably have multi-tens-of-gigabits available, or more.
jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by talz13:

It's a seedbox, it's 99% likely not on his home connection, but rented and sitting in a data center somewhere. They probably have multi-tens-of-gigabits available, or more.

Exactly. And bandwidth in a data center costs a lot less than it does in a residential network.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by jcremin:

said by talz13:

It's a seedbox, it's 99% likely not on his home connection, but rented and sitting in a data center somewhere. They probably have multi-tens-of-gigabits available, or more.

Exactly. And bandwidth in a data center costs a lot less than it does in a residential network.

Anybody in their right mind would rather own a Duopoly incumbent residential service ISP. Its a money press.

Hosting is highly competitive and they make pennies on the dollar.

If you want to see how massively Incumbents overcharge for bandwidth look no further to Sonic.net, or Paxio. They don't own any national backbone yet charge significantly less than incumbents for their bandwidth.

Or look to South Korea, Japan, parts of China, eastern Europe, and increasingly Vietnam.
jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by DataRiker:

Anybody in their right mind would rather own a Duopoly incumbent residential service ISP. Its a money press.

Hosting is highly competitive and they make pennies on the dollar.

I never said anything about a hosting company. I'm referring strictly about data connectivity. Price out an unlimited gigabit connection with an SLA which isn't oversold to the point that speed can't be guaranteed. I'm pretty certain you will never get that from an "end mile" ISP for anywhere close to what you will get it from a datacenter.

said by DataRiker:

If you want to see how massively Incumbents overcharge for bandwidth look no further to Sonic.net, or Paxio. They don't own any national backbone yet charge significantly less than incumbents for their bandwidth.

It's not just about overcharging for bandwidth. It's about efficiency. The smaller ISP's usually don't have a greedy board of directors and overpaid CEO's taking large amounts of money. They can also avoid much of the overhead that comes from the larger ISP's sheer size, extra regulation, legal, etc.

said by DataRiker:

Or look to South Korea, Japan, parts of China, eastern Europe, and increasingly Vietnam.

Yeah, but you also need to compare the baggage that comes along with those connections in other countries. We've but heads about trying to compare the US internet to that of other countries, so I'm not going to even go there.
Paxio
Premium
join:2011-02-23
Santa Clara, CA
kudos:1

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by jcremin:

It's not just about overcharging for bandwidth. It's about efficiency. The smaller ISP's usually don't have a greedy board of directors and overpaid CEO's taking large amounts of money. They can also avoid much of the overhead that comes from the larger ISP's sheer size, extra regulation, legal, etc.

Speaking for myself, I can say that Paxio wants overpaid CEO's too! We're just willing to work a little harder to get there...

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by talz13:

It's a seedbox, it's 99% likely not on his home connection, but rented and sitting in a data center somewhere. They probably have multi-tens-of-gigabits available, or more.

absolutely.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by talz13:

It's a seedbox, it's 99% likely not on his home connection, but rented and sitting in a data center somewhere. They probably have multi-tens-of-gigabits available, or more.

Then it has nothing to do with the topic then so why bring it up?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by 88615298:

said by talz13:

It's a seedbox, it's 99% likely not on his home connection, but rented and sitting in a data center somewhere. They probably have multi-tens-of-gigabits available, or more.

Then it has nothing to do with the topic then so why bring it up?

But it does. Back-haul costs are next to nothing, which is the only thing caps alleviate

Throttles would be more suited to easing crunch time issues.

Stated differently, caps are a business tool, not last mile network management tool.

cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26
said by KrK:

... in practically every regard.

Ironic how reports about bandwidth costs dropping dramatically are equally matched by the latest ISP announcing caps and overages and moving towards UBB profiteering.

... and as for consumers voting with their wallets.... there's now not a single broadband ISP I can choose that isn't capping and charging more for usage. So much for the "free market."

Bring on Muni-Fi.

You mean who hasn't already seen this years ago?

About the only "free/freedom" thing this country has anymore is the freedom to bend over and answer to the man!!

Sure,
We're better of than some third world country's, but even that is by a declining amount
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/

swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

1 recommendation

said by KrK:

Ironic how reports about bandwidth costs dropping dramatically are equally matched by the latest ISP announcing caps and overages and moving towards UBB profiteering.

Did I miss the reports about everything else decreasing as well? Labor, managing a fleet of service vehicles, gas price drops, call centers, electricity, taxes, permits, insurance, programming costs, etc etc...

All of which has to be factored into the equation. How often do prices on those come down? We both know the answer to that.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by swintec:

Did I miss the reports about everything else decreasing as well? Labor, managing a fleet of service vehicles, gas price drops, call centers, electricity, taxes, permits, insurance, programming costs, etc etc...

So you're suggesting that the cost of an ISP's bandwidth is only one small part of its overall expenses? Unfortunately, that concept doesn't make for good finger pointing fodder around here.

swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by openbox9:

So you're suggesting that the cost of an ISP's bandwidth is only one small part of its overall expenses? Unfortunately, that concept doesn't make for good finger pointing fodder around here.

Yea I am...you wouldnt know that by reading some of the arm chair CEO responses on here.

Another thing I didnt think of, in this case is that Century Link does not have a wireless division do they? We have all seen the reports of dwindling land line telephone subscriber numbers. With the record telephone cord cutters CL can not rely on wireless to make up for it. I am sure this went into the equation for capping here as well. The money is going to come from somewhere.
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Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Obviously you did. It looks like you may be in the market for a clue so let me offer one up for free:

When "cost" for X is determined generally ALL factors that have an affect on that are included.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

So the cost of bandwidth includes all of a business' expenses? I'm guessing the decreasing cost of bandwidth does not include the increasing cost of human capital to actually make the business work.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by openbox9:

So the cost of bandwidth includes all of a business' expenses? I'm guessing the decreasing cost of bandwidth does not include the increasing cost of human capital to actually make the business work.

Well seeing as how I got an uncapped cable connection in a small village in SK for less than 20 dollars a month, something is getting extremely inflated.

Combine that with the fact that we have by and large Duopoly markets and the toilet gets even more foul.

So we pay more for less, but somehow this makes sense?

Living in Asia should be mandatory before people talk about the "high cost" of supplying bandwidth.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

Seeing as how the US isn't South Korea, I'm not surprised.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by openbox9:

Seeing as how the US isn't South Korea, I'm not surprised.

Care to elaborate?

Are the laws of physics different in Asia?

•••••••

swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
said by Skippy25:

When "cost" for X is determined generally ALL factors that have an affect on that are included.

No kidding. However the report that comes out every other week about how the cost of delivering a GB is lower and lower...I really do not believe they factor in all of these business expenses...which never go down and can really cary widely from one area to the next.
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Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by swintec:

said by KrK:

Ironic how reports about bandwidth costs dropping dramatically are equally matched by the latest ISP announcing caps and overages and moving towards UBB profiteering.

Did I miss the reports about everything else decreasing as well? Labor, managing a fleet of service vehicles, gas price drops, call centers, electricity, taxes, permits, insurance, programming costs, etc etc...

All of which has to be factored into the equation. How often do prices on those come down? We both know the answer to that.

Those costs are paid for by the monthly fee my ISP charges me. If those cost go up then my ISP should increase the amount they charge me for internet. Also having a cap does NOTHING to alieviate those costs.

swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

Re: Who still doesn't see the wrong way the US is heading...

said by 88615298:

If those cost go up then my ISP should increase the amount they charge me for internet. Also having a cap does NOTHING to alieviate those costs.

They ARE increasing your monthly charge with a cap. When a ISP / Cable company / phone company can look at all of there costs mentioned above, it isnt hard to assign a cost per GB delivered to the end user. When you approach your cap most bump you up to the next highest tier...which costs more, and there is your price increase.
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SeanH

@74-usmetrocom.com
There is no free market in providers. Governments in the US have seen fit to install local monopolies, rather than allowing other players to come into the markets.

•••••••••••