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ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41 to tim92078

Premium Member

to tim92078

Re: [CATV] Plus Package HD Channels & CableCARD

a reply to my post on there facebook page says they require Trio and the whole home dvr to get the extra hd channels.

I can't believe cox is holding HD channels from customers even though we pay for the SD versions.
Like · · 14 hours ago ·

Cox Communications Sorry Andrew, but like we've told you in the past, there's MUCH more that goes into all that than just the hardware requirements. At this point, only the Cisco boxes with the Trio software will work. Thanks
tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

tim92078

Member

They're full of crap, the channels all work on the HD HomeRun.. .just not on TiVo.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41

Premium Member

I know that
tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

tim92078 to BryanInPHX

Member

to BryanInPHX
TiVoMargret - VP of Design @ TiVo has taken an interest in the problem. I received a response from her asking for more information in response to the private message I'd sent a couple of weeks ago.

i.e. the problem is finally going to get some higher level visibility.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41

Premium Member

let us know what you find out
timaster6
join:2002-02-04
Tulsa, OK

timaster6

Member

Interesting update on this issue

So the other day, I noticed that the number of channels being pushed to my Ceton InfiniTV 4/Cablecard had increased sometime in the past few weeks. Where before I didnt get pushed the channel definitions for any channel in the plus pak, I noticed that I am now. So I attempted to access them, and found that I could get a few (like the DIY channel, SWRV HD, and The HUB TV), but that if I attempted any of the HBO and Starz extra HD channels I was getting "Subscription Required".

So, I called customer service, asked if I could get those authorized, and was told that they couldn't do it unless I had the whole home DVR system.

In my view of course, I am already paying for Advanced TV (which should get me the HD versions of ANY channels I already pay for), and HBO and Starz, which should get me ALL those channels. So I composed a detailed email to Cox, casting the issue in the light of not getting channels that I am paying for, and should be getting.

I got a phone call this morning from a supervisor at Cox, who researched the issue, added whatever "codes" to my account, and then magically all of those HBO and Starz channels are now working for me.

So you may be able to get this fixed on your cablecard if you get hold of the right person inside Cox.
Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Ashburn, VA

Foxbat121 to BryanInPHX

Member

to BryanInPHX

Re: [CATV] Plus Package HD Channels & CableCARD

Here in Fairfax, VA, none of these Plus channels are anywhere near the 1GHz. The DIY and other channels are in 669Mhz channel and the other HBO channels are in 800MHz something. So, none of thse channels currently require 1GHz capable cablebox. Of course, I have no subscription to them and I don't care about them either.

And somehow, with my old expanded basic package, I got EPIX HD subscription but not EPIX SD subscription. Go figure.

tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

tim92078 to timaster6

Member

to timaster6

CONFIRMED: TiVo Premiere problem, fix coming "Spring 2012&q

said by timaster6:

So you may be able to get this fixed on your cablecard if you get hold of the right person inside Cox.

Oh, I'm satisfied my cablecards are probably all correctly authorized - the journey started the same with some phone droid telling me I had to buy their Whole Home Fail, er, DVR. (The one with TWO tuners and 500gb storage - what an amazing product...)

Two of my cablecards are in TiVo Premieres, and those continue to claim lack of authorization. I don't believe that's really the case because the third cablecard is in a SiliconDust HDHomeRun - I can see the new channels in Windows Media Center just fine.

It's pretty ironic that it IS actually a TiVo problem all along. If Cox handled cablecards credibly I might have believed them, too.

Anyway, I got confirmation Sunday night from a TiVo VP that a fix to the Premiere software is being tested and will likely be slated for release "Spring 2012."

So if you've come to this thread after resisting the sales pitch for Whole Home Fail and done the reset-your-tuning-adapter-and-restart-your-TiVo tango a couple of times with our clueless self-appointed friends in the digital age: there it is. This really is a TiVo issue.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41

Premium Member

Re: CONFIRMED: TiVo Premiere problem, fix coming "Spring 20

so the plus pack are not available on tivo's do to a software error? I find that hard to believe.
tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

tim92078

Member

Believe what you like... but this person is the source of the information, and she's DEFINITELY in a position to know. She participates on tivocommunity.com and responded to a PM I'd sent her.

»margretschmidt.com/Home/ ··· ign.html

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

Re: [CATV] Plus Package HD Channels & CableCARD

Just to be clear, The TiVo issue/problem is only for markets using MPEG4. Cox markets still using MPEG2 should not have an issue.
m8trix
join:2003-12-24
Chandler, AZ

m8trix

Member

according to this cox does use mpeg4

»www.fiercecable.com/stor ··· 11-09-19

»www.tvpredictions.com/co ··· 1911.htm

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

The only markets I have seen reports using MPEG4 as of now are:
Cox Arizona
Cox Northern, VA
maybe Cox Las Vegas (only 1 unconfirmed report)

None of the Cox California markets are using MPEG4, yet.
m8trix
join:2003-12-24
Chandler, AZ

1 edit

m8trix

Member

if you read the article it says tv plus will use mpeg4, so any place that has whole home dvr or tv plus pack availible is using mpeg 4, and when i switch to cali on the cox web site it shows whole home dvr

»ww2.cox.com/residential/ ··· kage.cox

and there are a few people from CA and LA,nebraska that have posted in this tread as to having access to those channels

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

While Cox may, and probably will eventually move to MPEG4 for the Plus Package channels, Most markets that launched prior to Dec 2011 are still MPEG2. Which is mostly all markets.
m8trix
join:2003-12-24
Chandler, AZ

m8trix

Member

your missing the point,any place that has the whole home dvr and tv plus those chanels in the are are on mpeg4 while other channels will still be mpeg2

Multichannel News writes that Cox's Advanced TV Plus package, which will use the MPEG-4 delivery method, also includes such enhanced features as multiroom DVR and an on-screen guide that provides more personalized features.

have not seen anything that says tv plus will use mpeg 2

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

Ask your contacts in other markets, and see if they are using MPEG4 yet. I have contacts in many other markets with CableCARDS and TiVos and all are still using MPEG2 for the Plus Pack Channels.
Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Joe12345678 to timaster6

Member

to timaster6

Re: Interesting update on this issue

COX better train there customer service better as UNDER FCC RULES

Pay only for equipment you have. Your operator must give you a discount on any packages that include the price of a set-top box if you choose to use your own CableCARD-enabled device. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5).

Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD from your provider. Your operator must list the cost of a CableCARD rental on its website or billing inserts and on its annual rate notice, and must provide you with this information when you call. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5), 76.1602(b). Typically operators charge $2-4 per month to rent a CableCARD.

Use your own set-top box without extra charge. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box.

Receive all linear channels (channels other than on-demand) in your subscription package. This includes premium channels and specialty channels. For some channels delivered using a technique called switched digital video, you may need a second device called a tuning adapter. This device is typically provided at no additional charge to CableCARD customers. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4). CableCARD-ready devices currently cannot receive your cable operators Video on Demand services.
tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

tim92078

Member

True, it costs the consumer nothing to complain to the FCC.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41 to Joe12345678

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to Joe12345678
cox and tivo are working on getting ondemand to work on the tivo.
ajwees41

ajwees41 to tim92078

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to tim92078

Re: CONFIRMED: TiVo Premiere problem, fix coming "Spring 20

no what I don't get is if the hardware for the tivo is mpeg4 why is there a software problem that doesn't allow the plus package channels in mpeg 4?
tim92078
join:2010-07-15
San Marcos, CA

tim92078

Member

A possible answer is in your question. The hardware can handle it but the software is handling the setup messages wrong. Every tuning event is a conversation between the cablecard, TiVo and tuning adapter.

h.264 video is new - likely there's some message coming from the cablecard/TA during the tuning event and its not being interpreted correctly. The cablecard/TA is likely telling the TiVo (and this is very simplified conjecture) that channel is in the stream located at xxx Mhz, this is the expected bitrate of the stream (and perhaps what the error correction level is), video PID yyy, audio PID zzz, and the codecs used for both the audio and video. PIDs are headers in the stream that tag what the content is of the next few hundreds or thousands of bytes, it gets complicated.

Quite likely it's mis-identifying the codec and leaving the chipset (hardware) configured to decode mpeg2. If the hardware is expecting mpeg2 and sees h.264 it will send back some sort of exception (there's a problem!) which is being displayed to the end-user as "channel not authorized." Why that error? Either its the default "I give up" last-resort error message, or its the same condition that happens when you tune a channel that really isn't authorized: the keys don't generate a viewable/listenable set of streams and are just delivering garbage bits. I'd bet a hardware mpeg2 decoder is going to consider h.264 to be "garbage."

It's all just conjecture though, to know what the conversation really is would require getting documentation from Cisco that's likely covered under NDA.

A failure to negotiate can be as simple as uppercase/lowercase not matching what's really expected, maybe there's an extra byte, or a missing byte... hard to say. You'd have to use test equipment to decode at the protocol level.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41

Premium Member

so why then can a pc tuner pick up the channels while tivo can't if they use the same cable card software? I wonder if cox is just not allowing them on the tivo's?
timaster6
join:2002-02-04
Tulsa, OK

timaster6

Member

said by ajwees41:

so why then can a pc tuner pick up the channels while tivo can't if they use the same cable card software? I wonder if cox is just not allowing them on the tivo's?

Thats not a Cable Card issue. All the cablecard does is check authorisation and decode the raw encrypted datastream and give the result back to the host.

At that point its up to the hardware/software (PC, Tivo, etc) to know what to do with the datastream. If the Tivo isn't correctly handling the decrypted H.264 or mpeg4 datastream, that could be the issue. The PC seems to manage the feat just fine.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX to ajwees41

Premium Member

to ajwees41
Ceton took an interest in this issue early on, Back in November, see first post, and has the ability to release firmware updates much faster than TiVo. TiVo never took this issue seriously until recently.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

ajwees41 to BryanInPHX

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to BryanInPHX

Re: [CATV] Plus Package HD Channels & CableCARD

Omaha is a 1Ghz plant, so maybe that's why some trio areas are able to be mpeg 2 vs mpeg just a thought.
Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Ashburn, VA

Foxbat121 to ajwees41

Member

to ajwees41

Re: CONFIRMED: TiVo Premiere problem, fix coming "Spring 20

said by ajwees41:

so why then can a pc tuner pick up the channels while tivo can't if they use the same cable card software? I wonder if cox is just not allowing them on the tivo's?

If it took TiVo this long and doesn't have the fix, I'd suspect TiVo cheapened out on the hardware and didn't put in a H.264 decode chip in the box. While modern PCs can brute force decoding H.264 HD video using CPU power alone, TiVo box may not have such powerful CPU inside.
ajwees41
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE

1 edit

ajwees41

Premium Member

said by Foxbat121:

said by ajwees41:

so why then can a pc tuner pick up the channels while tivo can't if they use the same cable card software? I wonder if cox is just not allowing them on the tivo's?

If it took TiVo this long and doesn't have the fix, I'd suspect TiVo cheapened out on the hardware and didn't put in a H.264 decode chip in the box. While modern PCs can brute force decoding H.264 HD video using CPU power alone, TiVo box may not have such powerful CPU inside.

if the hardware decoder was or is cheap how can a software update fix it? sounds more like the tivo firmware can't pick up the mpeg 4 stream even though there is supposed to be mpeg 4 hardware.

found this An update for the NoVa area.

I just got off the phone with a helpful representative from Cox. I asked about the current issue I'm having with the Plus Package premium channels, i.e. Cox is unable to authorize the channels. He read me an email from his tech lead that stated that this is a known issue on Tivo's end. Apparently Tivo was not as ready for the roll-out of MPEG4 channels as the lead us all to believe--this makes sense given that SilconDust boxes and other retail boxes are receiving these channels already. According to conversations between Tivo and Cox, Tivo will have a patch worked out and sent to Cox for testing by 20 February 2012 (next week). The Cox representative said that once Cox tests that the patch works, they should be able to authorize the channels. The target date for this authorization is 28 February 2012.

hopefully it will be nationwide or ready, so when cox areas go mpeg 4 on the plus package tivo should get them
djc
join:2009-06-14
Escondido, CA

djc to BryanInPHX

Member

to BryanInPHX

Re: [CATV] Plus Package HD Channels & CableCARD

Does anyone know if San Diego is using 1GHz and/or MPEG4 for the plus package? I have a Series 3 and haven't attempted to have the plug package added but want to know if I can even tune them before i bother calling.

BryanInPHX
Premium Member
join:2001-03-06
Phoenix, AZ

BryanInPHX

Premium Member

Cox San Diego is using 860MHz-1GHz for the Plus Package HD channels, But is not yet using MPEG4, last I checked. Your Series 3 is 1GHz capable but not MPEG4 capable.

Register and contact Joshuarat at »www.sandiegohdtv.org/for ··· ablecard
Cox California's policy is to allow the channels on CableCARDs so I would assume many Cox SD employees are also able to assist.

He can get you set-up, as long as San Diego is still using MPEG2, if/when SD changes to MPEG4 you are most likely out of luck, TiVo has said they have no plans for an update for the Series 3 TiVo.