dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
65622
share rss forum feed

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to PGHammer

Re: Say goodbye to ClearQAM

We're talking about Charter using their own downloadable standard which could mean Cablecard users get shafted eventually, not whether CE devices properly comply with Cablecard. Nobody makes Cablecard TVs anymore so that's irrelevant, and as you said the current CE devices supporting cards (Tivo, Ceton, SiliconDust) generally work fine with them.

This discussion is about the future without cards, and the current lack of an industry standard to get there.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
FYI - Leslie Ellis's "Translation Please" blog entry for this week discusses the Charter waiver:

What the Charter Waiver Means to Cable
MSO Can Now Deploy Boxes with Built-in Security

By Leslie Ellis, Multichannel News - April 29, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/blogs/trans···ns-cable

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
Spoken like the cable-friendly site that it's on - let the industry work it out yada yada yada. That's what tru2way was supposed to be about too, and we saw how widely that got adopted when cable wanted to force their software on CE devices.

Bottom line is that it takes a partnership between the CE industry and cable, and I'm not sure that will happen without FCC guidance.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17
said by GTFan:

Bottom line is that it takes a partnership between the CE industry and cable, and I'm not sure that will happen without FCC guidance.

It's already happening with "TV Everywhere". It's on TVs, PCs, phones, set top boxes, etc...

The biggest hold up is channel owners allowing broadcast rights by IP.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, have a back up... 99.999% availability just isn't enough sometimes.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
It looks like the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) may appeal the conditional waiver that Charter received from the FCC:

CEA Ponders Challenge to Charter Waiver
Critics of the move have until the end of the week to petition for review

By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable - May 16, 2013
»www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···iver.php

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
They should, because if this waiver succeeds it could mean the end of new Cablecard installs on Charter, without an industry standard to replace it. All they have to do is commission some retail box that no one will buy and that will be the end of it.

Others will follow.


chong67

join:2001-11-18
Jonesboro, GA
reply to andyross
Anyone got their Clear QAM scrambled in your area yet?


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17
reply to GTFan
said by GTFan:

They should, because if this waiver succeeds it could mean the end of new Cablecard installs on Charter, without an industry standard to replace it. All they have to do is commission some retail box that no one will buy and that will be the end of it.

Others will follow.

Why would it mean the end of CableCard when a few hundred thousand of their own boxes still use it?

How long should the cable companies wait for progress on a 3 year old proposal by the FCC before moving on?
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, have a back up... 99.999% availability just isn't enough sometimes.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
What part of 'new Cablecard installs' did you not read? I didn't say that existing ones wouldn't be supported, that's stupid.

How long should the CEA wait for an industry standard without cards? A true standard to replace cards, not one-offs by Cablevision and Charter. That's the problem.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17

1 edit
said by GTFan:

What part of 'new Cablecard installs' did you not read? I didn't say that existing ones wouldn't be supported, that's stupid.

I think other existing FCC rules still require support for CableCards... including self-install by customers for boxes they can buy at retail. A waiver for a integrated security box doesn't change that.

said by GTFan:

How long should the CEA wait for an industry standard without cards? A true standard to replace cards, not one-offs by Cablevision and Charter. That's the problem.

I don't think the video providers or CEA are waiting... they've been working together to create TV Everywhere. It's adoption by ALL parties (video providers, broadcasters, equipment makers, advertisers, consumers, etc.) involved is expanding. All sides got tired of the FCC moving slow and changing rules that screwed them every few years. Is it some sort of official IEEE or SCTE standard that the FCC can adopt? no, but that hasn't stopped it's adoption and use by just about every facet of video delivery.

I won't be surprised if, in the next year or two, one of the video providers starts offering their customers a small cable box built around a cable modem, Android based OS, and HDMI output that uses a TV Everywhere app or menu of TV Everywhere apps to provide the channels. It could completely eliminate the reliance on legacy broadcast QAM based video delivery, allowing a provider to start offering a complete IPTV product. No need for CableCard on that thing.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, have a back up... 99.999% availability just isn't enough sometimes.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
One condition of the waiver clearly states that if Charter can get a retail box out there using their DCAS, they don't have to allow new card installs. Not sure how much more clearly this can be said.

See sections 64 and 65:
»www.fcc.gov/document/charter-com···761204a1

For the tl;dr crowd, here is the pertinent wording:

Before a third party retail downloadable device is available, Charter customers can purchase
new CableCARD retail devices and receive CableCARDs from Charter. After the third party retail downloadable
devices are available, Charter will no longer be required to distribute new CableCARDs for new CableCARD
devices (though they must ensure through simulcrypt that previously purchased CableCARD devices can still
operate on Charter systems) but customers will have the downloadable retail option available.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17

1 edit
A new retail device that works with cable encryption would be great, but chances are slim to none if only Charter and one other smaller cable company are supporting it. It's another CableCard or tru2way, but with a MUCH smaller possible user base it could work with. Even Charter will take a few years to support it across it's entire footprint. Nobody retail would want to deal with that support headache and cost.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, have a back up... 99.999% availability just isn't enough sometimes.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
You totally missed the point.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to SpHeRe31459
said by SpHeRe31459:

I do think a proper industry standard downloadable security model is where everything is headed at this point.

It would also let people use things like an Xbox as a proper STB with the right secure app, etc.

Well, it looks like Microsoft may be setting up their new Xbox as a cable STB replacement:

Microsoft Fires Xbox Bullet at Cable's STB
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading Cable - May 20, 2013
»www.lightreading.com/gaming-cons···40155235

Also see: »www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-2···mes.html


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

It looks like the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) may appeal the conditional waiver that Charter received from the FCC:

CEA Ponders Challenge to Charter Waiver
Critics of the move have until the end of the week to petition for review

By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable - May 16, 2013
»www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···iver.php

The CEA officially filed its challenge with the FCC today:

CEA Challenges Charter's FCC Set-Top Waiver
Says Media Bureau decision is illegal and sets dangerous precedent

By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable - May 20, 2013
»www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···iver.php


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Well, it looks like Microsoft may be setting up their new Xbox as a cable STB replacement:

Microsoft Fires Xbox Bullet at Cable's STB
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading Cable - May 20, 2013
»www.lightreading.com/gaming-cons···40155235

Also see: »www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-2···mes.html

OK, well, maybe not so much as a replacement:
quote:
And separately, in its ongoing dance with service providers, Microsoft may also be pursuing an HDMI pass-through feature that would allow it to overlay its own Xbox UI (user interface) on a cable video feed.
From GigaOM (What online video and TV fans can expect from Microsoft’s next Xbox - »gigaom.com/2013/05/20/next-xbox-preview/ ):
quote:
Live TV, courtesy of your cable box

Leaks of key documents about the next Xbox’s hardware have shown that the device will come with two HDMI ports: One to connect the Xbox to your TV, and one to connect your cable box to the Xbox. That’s the same setup used by Google TV and the latest Slingbox, and it allows Microsoft to access your live TV programming and overlay it with its own programming guide, widgets and apps.

Why this matters: Microsoft wants users to always consume TV through the Xbox — even if the actual TV programming comes from traditional cable, and not an Xbox Live app. This shows how important TV has become for the Xbox, but the somewhat cumbersome setup also goes to show how complicated it is for even someone like Microsoft to get access to the content that matters most to consumers.
Anyway, we will find out definitely around 1PM ET today when Microsoft holds their New Xbox reveal event.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

The CEA officially filed its challenge with the FCC today:

CEA Challenges Charter's FCC Set-Top Waiver
Says Media Bureau decision is illegal and sets dangerous precedent

By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable - May 20, 2013
»www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···iver.php

TiVo has joined the CEA now in challenging the FCC's conditional waiver they gave to Charter:

TiVo Asks Bureau to Rethink Charter Waiver
Says it needs to add guarantees that it is not creating de facto downloadable security system without any notice or opportunity for comment

By John Eggerton, Broadcasting & Cable - May 21, 2013
»www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···iver.php


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

2 edits
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

OK, well, maybe not so much as a replacement:

quote:
And separately, in its ongoing dance with service providers, Microsoft may also be pursuing an HDMI pass-through feature that would allow it to overlay its own Xbox UI (user interface) on a cable video feed.
From GigaOM (What online video and TV fans can expect from Microsoft’s next Xbox - »gigaom.com/2013/05/20/next-xbox-preview/ ):
quote:
Live TV, courtesy of your cable box

Leaks of key documents about the next Xbox’s hardware have shown that the device will come with two HDMI ports: One to connect the Xbox to your TV, and one to connect your cable box to the Xbox. That’s the same setup used by Google TV and the latest Slingbox, and it allows Microsoft to access your live TV programming and overlay it with its own programming guide, widgets and apps.

Why this matters: Microsoft wants users to always consume TV through the Xbox — even if the actual TV programming comes from traditional cable, and not an Xbox Live app. This shows how important TV has become for the Xbox, but the somewhat cumbersome setup also goes to show how complicated it is for even someone like Microsoft to get access to the content that matters most to consumers.
Anyway, we will find out definitely around 1PM ET today when Microsoft holds their New Xbox reveal event.

Latest article about the new "Xbox One"'s TV features:

Microsoft announces new Xbox One with live TV guide, media multitasking and group video Skype
By Janko Roettgers, GigaOM - May 21, 2013
»gigaom.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-announcement/

EDIT: From:
Exclusive First Look at Xbox One
By Peter Rubin, Wired - May 21, 2013
»www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/
quote:
Xbox One will utilize a few different methods to deliver live TV to the Xbox universe. Chief among those—at least in the US—is HDMI pass-through, in which the cable box, satellite box, or similar device (e.g., the aforementioned cablecard-equipped TiVo ) connects directly to the Xbox One, which then passes the mediated signal to the television via an HDMI-out port.

Because of that direct pipe from your TV provider to the Xbox One, you can watch TV with varying degrees of Xbox overlay. It can look exactly like your plain old TV interface, being controlled with the original remote. Alternately, you can use Xbox’s electronic programming guide, which presents a lineup based on your favorite channels or tells you what your friends are watching and can be controlled via voice, gesture, and game controller. Or, thanks to Xbox SmartGlass, the second-screen functionality that Microsoft introduced in limited capacity last year across multiple mobile platforms, you can use your smartphone or tablet to change channels with a no-look flicking motion. (For more granular control, SmartGlass will eventually be able to turn your phone into a skeuomorphic remote control, able to emulate any other control device.)

EDIT2: Some more details in this B&C article: »www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···One_.php


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
FYI - Samsung has now revealed plans to produce a CableCARD-powered hybrid cable/OTT STB:

Samsung To (Re)Enter CableCARD Fray
By Dave Zatz, Zatz Not Funny! - May 21, 2013
»www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-05/sam···rd-fray/

SpHeRe31459
Premium
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2
There's a slight irony there, considering Samsung OEMs the cable boxes with downloadable security that Cablevision uses.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:17
Samsung also produces a few of the cable box models TWC uses with their Navigator guide, which have CableCards.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
Click for full size
Click for full size
Two slides from Samsung's letter to the FCC.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 edit
An article on the Light Reading Cable site today about the Samsung Smart Media Player and other retail CableCARD-powered devices:

Samsung Embraces CableCARDs
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading Cable - May 28, 2013
»www.lightreading.com/dvrs/samsun···40155638

EDIT: Also an article on the MCN site this evening:

Samsung Developing CableCARD Retail Video Device
Its Smart Media Player to Handle Linear Subscription TV and Over-the-Top Video Services

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - May 28, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/technology/···e/143541

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL

1 edit

Springfield, IL limited basic encrypting 6/25/13

Just got our letter; Limited Basic encryption starts here on 6/25/13.

- limited basic subs can get 2 FREE DTA's for 2 years; 5 years if you receive Medicaid
- higher tier subs can get 1 FREE DTA for 1 year

You CAN request an HD-DTA, for the same offer(s)

To qualify for any FREE equipment, you must request the (FREE) equipment between 5/25/2013 & 10/25/2013.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by dishrich:

Just got our letter; Limited Basic encryption starts here on 6/25/13.

- limited basic subs can get 2 FREE DTA's for 2 years; 5 years if you receive Medicaid
- higher tier subs can get 1 FREE DTA for 1 year

To qualify for any FREE equipment, you must request the (FREE) equipment between 5/25/2013 & 10/25/2013.

Thanks for letting us know.

BTW - Here's the bill notice and a letter that a (Limited Basic) subscriber in MA received: »Re: Comcast is going to SCAM their customers

keenan424

join:2003-01-13
Santa Rosa, CA
reply to andyross

Re: Say goodbye to ClearQAM

Would a thread, or maybe even modify the first post in this thread to list locations and dates for when the transition is happening sound like a good idea?

It might be interesting to see how it's progressing throughout the country.

Just a thought.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by keenan424:

Would a thread, or maybe even modify the first post in this thread to list locations and dates for when the transition is happening sound like a good idea?

It might be interesting to see how it's progressing throughout the country.

Just a thought.

Yes, I think a new thread should be started to track that.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by telcodad:

said by keenan424:

Would a thread, or maybe even modify the first post in this thread to list locations and dates for when the transition is happening sound like a good idea?

It might be interesting to see how it's progressing throughout the country.

Just a thought.

Yes, I think a new thread should be started to track that.

As per keenan424 See Profile's suggestion, I created a new, stickied thread to track the locations and dates for the encryption of the Limited Basic tier: »[Content] Report notifications of Limited Basic tier encryption here


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

2 edits
reply to telcodad
Another set-top box replacement coming soon:

Fan TV revealed: is this the set-top box we’ve been waiting for?
Built in secret, Fanhattan is finally showing off its Yves Behar-designed device to the world.

By Casey Newton, The Verge - May 30, 2013
»www.theverge.com/2013/5/30/43801···anhattan

I wasn't sure if this would use a CableCARD to view live TV, but this article »www.multichannel.com/distributio···r/143588 about it on the MCN site this morning says:
quote:
Fanhatten’s BianRosa did not go into the technical details of how it would access live TV from MSOs and other pay TV partners. The Fan TV device won’t use a CableCARD or connect via coax. But there are a number of technical options it could pursue.
Also see: »gigaom.com/2013/05/30/want-to-kn···-fan-tv/

»www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-05/fan···her-box/


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

An article on the Light Reading Cable site today about the Samsung Smart Media Player and other retail CableCARD-powered devices:

Samsung Embraces CableCARDs
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading Cable - May 28, 2013
»www.lightreading.com/dvrs/samsun···40155638

EDIT: Also an article on the MCN site this evening:

Samsung Developing CableCARD Retail Video Device
Its Smart Media Player to Handle Linear Subscription TV and Over-the-Top Video Services

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - May 28, 2013
»www.multichannel.com/technology/···e/143541

A picture that Dave Zatz took of it at The Cable Show: »twitter.com/davezatz/status/3445···/photo/1