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tdot_rc

join:2011-12-01
North York, ON

[Extreme] Using Moto SB5100 with Rogers Extreme

Hi Guys, I have express with the SB5100 modem. I'm planning on upgrading to the Extreme package. I want to keep my SB5100 that i bought. I know I've seen the specs that this modem can go up to 38mbps. What i want to know if i should look into getting an new D3 modem or stick with my reliable sb5100?

Will there be a big speed difference?



bfksc
Unlimited on Distributel

join:2011-11-22
Toronto, ON

said by tdot_rc:

Hi Guys, I have express with the SB5100 modem. I'm planning on upgrading to the Extreme package. I want to keep my SB5100 that i bought. I know I've seen the specs that this modem can go up to 38mbps. What i want to know if i should look into getting an new D3 modem or stick with my reliable sb5100?

Will there be a big speed difference?

There could be as speedboost might get you 50mbps peaks or higher, and the modem would be the limiting factor. On the 12/0.5 profile I would often hit 30+mbps. On the 50/2 profile I get peaks as high as 83mbps.

Hooter

join:2009-08-17
Scarborough, ON

Rogers has made it very clear that they will not connect a D2 modem to Extreme packages or higher. Even new customers to Rogers who sign up for Express are being forced to purchase or rent a D3 gateway modem. So it is really a moot point. If you wish to keep your SB5100, you are stuck with Express or lower.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to tdot_rc

Rogers won't let you have extreme with a DOC 2 modem period.
You are going to have to rent thier POS modem/gateway units.

I have the same modem, and am easily getting 25mb on it (the modem is rated for 30). But then I'm using Distributel.
--
It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?



aadffttt

@rogers.com

@elwoodblues which package do you have with distributel that you are getting 24mb? i only see max 15mb


JMCD23

join:2010-12-06
London, ON
reply to tdot_rc

The 15mbps package is the 24mbps package, it's just not officially there yet. Also like how many ultimate users are getting 75mbps rather than 50mbps.


Fuzzy Dunlop

join:2011-02-07
Toronto, ON
reply to tdot_rc

I'm confused: I've read numerous posts from people stating that Rogers will not activate the SB5100 for use with Extreme or above however I've been an Extreme Plus customer for ages now and was never asked to upgrade from the SB5100. I will confess that my downstream is often closer to the 14 or 15 mbps margin, and my upload has remained a constant 0.96 mbps, but other than that everything works. What's the deal: could I be getting faster speeds with a DOCSIS 3 modem, or should I stick with the SB5100 and hope Rogers doesn't notice me? I already have an Asus RT-N56U router, so the last thing I want is the SMC POS. Thoughts?



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13

Fuzzy Dunlop, you're on a grandfathered profile, probably at 15 or maybe 17 Mbps. Your profile will not have been upgraded.


Fuzzy Dunlop

join:2011-02-07
Toronto, ON

In other words, I'm paying for Extreme Plus and getting Express speeds? How outrageous!

Until recently I was getting download speeds closer to 27mbps however I've tested it again over the past 4 days and it's consistently clocking in at 14mbps.

I guess this means I should contact Rogers and demand a change to my service: either downgrade to Express or buy a DOCSIS 3 modem. On the topic of modems, is there any DOCSIS 3 dedicated modem I can buy that will work with Rogers, or am I forced to spend $200 on one of their wretched modem/routers? I already own an Asus RT-N56U; I don't want a second router.



bfksc
Unlimited on Distributel

join:2011-11-22
Toronto, ON

said by Fuzzy Dunlop:

In other words, I'm paying for Extreme Plus and getting Express speeds? How outrageous!

That's what they do...and of course they won't tell you what you're missing.

I guess this means I should contact Rogers and demand a change to my service: either downgrade to Express or buy a DOCSIS 3 modem.

Your profile could be set at 12mbps, so changing modems won't make a difference as the SB5100 is capable of ~33mbps. I have the SB5101 and although it can do 33mbps, the 24/1 mbps profile allows peaks up to about 50+ with speedboost, but I'm not getting that since the modem limits peak speeds.

If you're happy with 12/0.5 mbps speeds, then just downgrade to that plan. But if you want the faster speeds, you will need to change modems.

On the topic of modems, is there any DOCSIS 3 dedicated modem I can buy that will work with Rogers, or am I forced to spend $200 on one of their wretched modem/routers? I already own an Asus RT-N56U; I don't want a second router.

Nice router, I have one as well.
As for the modem, any DOCSIS 3 modem should work fine on their network. The problem is you're kind of stuck with Rogers' models as it's difficult to find a CSR who can and will provision a non-rogers modem on their network. Having said that, if you do buy one from Rogers, get the Cisco DPC3825 and simply change it to bridged mode to disable it's router. It's a decent modem with 8 channels for bonding and it has gigabit ports.

JMCD23

join:2010-12-06
London, ON

His profile would be set at 10mbps/1mbps with the 95GB cap, that's the grandfathered one. The SB5100 in the most perfect scenario can only hit 38mbps anyway.

bfksc has it right for the modem, get the cisco and put it in bridge mode. Also the new extreme tier (same price you pay) is now 28mbps/1mbps with a 120GB cap.

As it has been said, you pretty much cannot change anything to your internet package without being force fed a new modem/router combo.


Fuzzy Dunlop

join:2011-02-07
Toronto, ON
reply to tdot_rc

Thanks everyone for all the help. I'm curious to know how long this policy has been in place for though? I ask this because I'd like to be able to provide an estimate to Robbers CSR on how long they've been ripping me off when I call them tomorrow to demand a free modem and credit.

I can remember testing my Internet speeds no more than a few months ago and consistently reading 27mbps, which sounds reasonable for a 32mbps plan. I'm guessing the changes occurred around the time Robbers introduced their Ultimate tier?



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13

Ever since they upgraded Extreme from 12 Mbps


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to bfksc

said by bfksc:

Your profile could be set at 12mbps, so changing modems won't make a difference as the SB5100 is capable of ~33mbps.

That is only possible if you are lucky and happen to be the only subscriber attempting to pull data at any sort of significant speed at that time. As soon as you have a few other active subscribers on the same QAM, sustainable speeds start dropping quickly.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Absolutely correct there invalid ... the D3 modems will give better speed stability for everyone, of course, that's only until Rogers goes and loads the cable segments right up with higher and higher speed customers, dashing any advantage ... then they'll try to sell use D3 (16 channels up/down bonded) or the new D4 modems


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by sbrook:

then they'll try to sell use D3 (16 channels up/down bonded) or the new D4 modems

I doubt we'll see 16X modems or D4, things appear to be headed toward EPoC, possibly using the same DMTM modulation used on xDSL instead of 6-8MHz QAMs.

JMCD23

join:2010-12-06
London, ON
reply to Fuzzy Dunlop

Oh sorry Fuzzy, I didn't realize you were one of the few on the old Docsis 2 Extreme Plus plan. I think it was around October 2009 when the D3 speeds became available to me in London, but Toronto would've been sooner. It was also around that time they dropped the prices to what they are now. Before that it was $150 for Ultimate and I think $100 for Extreme Plus on Docsis 3, but my memory may be shoddy for that far back :P

You should definitely be able to get a free modem credit out of them and perhaps a discount. Just threaten to switch to someone else like Teksavvy or Bell and get connected to retentions.

For the record, the old Extreme Plus was somewhere between 15-18mbps, but the higher speeds you are seeing are just speedboost.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to tdot_rc

Actually Invalid, I did have my tongue implanted in my cheek when I said that ... the idea is that they'll milk D3 for as much money as possible, then sell us on the next bright idea in technology whatever it may be!



bfksc
Unlimited on Distributel

join:2011-11-22
Toronto, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by bfksc:

Your profile could be set at 12mbps, so changing modems won't make a difference as the SB5100 is capable of ~33mbps.

That is only possible if you are lucky and happen to be the only subscriber attempting to pull data at any sort of significant speed at that time. As soon as you have a few other active subscribers on the same QAM, sustainable speeds start dropping quickly.

That's true, but how many people are constantly doing over 10MB transfers (Speedboost limit)? I do a lot of large transfers (Linux DVD distros, HD videos up and down, etc.), but I know several neighbours are on the same line on my street and I rarely see large speed drops. I know I'm lucky in my area as I'm on the 24/1 profile with the SB5101 and I can count on my left hand the number of times I've seen sustained speeds drop below 20mbps in the last month.

Having said that, I'll be happy when I can get my hands on a D3 modem from Distributel as that will mean higher Speedboost. They announced that the official 24/1 speeds will be live on Feb 1st, and D3 modems will be available then too. Guess who I'll be calling Wednesday morning?


From Twitter:

"Distributel
For those who've been asking, YES our 24 Mbps service in ONT will be unlimited w/ a Docsys 3. Full deets on Feb 1st "

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by bfksc:

I know I'm lucky in my area as I'm on the 24/1 profile with the SB5101 and I can count on my left hand the number of times I've seen sustained speeds drop below 20mbps in the last month.

And at the other end of the "luck scale", you have people who can't do more than 1-5Mbps during peak hours on their 15+Mbps service.


bfksc
Unlimited on Distributel

join:2011-11-22
Toronto, ON

said by InvalidError:

And at the other end of the "luck scale", you have people who can't do more than 1-5Mbps during peak hours on their 15+Mbps service.

That should change starting tomorrow...


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13

Yup, tomorrow there will be people who can only do 1-5 Mbps on the 50 or even 100 Mbps service. Hahaha!


Fuzzy Dunlop

join:2011-02-07
Toronto, ON

An update to my earlier post about Robbers High Speed Extreme Internet and DOCSIS 2 modems:

I phoned Robbers CS yesterday to request a credit to my account and to downgrade my Extreme service to Express. I was transferred to Billing, who told me it was a Tech Support issue, who transferred me to Tech Support, who then told me it was a Billing issue, then told me to visit Robbers Plus to have the matter resolved.

Drove to Robbers Plus today, who told me they couldn't do anything. I demanded they call Robbers CS from the store. Robbers CS refused to talk to me or even transfer me to a supervisor because I had forgotten my Rogers PIN at home – even though I was standing in their store with government photo ID matching the primary account holder! The Robbers Plus rep eventually talked the CSR person into dealing with me, only to tell me that Tech Support could not handle my request, and again(!) transferring me to Billing, who then transferred me to Customer Relations! Confused yet?

Customer Relations guy's demeanour varied between curtness and sarcasm. He admitted I was put on a grandfathered Extreme plan, at the same rate as new Extreme Plus customers (whose download speeds are 10mbps faster than mine), arguing that mine was a better deal because I didn't have to pay the modem rental fee (because I had already purchased my DOCSIS 2!). I said I thought their policy of treating newer customers better than old ones sucked and that I was thinking about switching ISPs.

He refused to offer a credit to my account or give me a new modem, and instead offered me a "promotion": $40/month off my Robbers bill for the next 2 years, provided I enter into an unwritten contract with Robbers CSR. I repeated my demand for a $199 credit (the value of the DOCSIS 3 modem), and emphasized that I thought it more than fair given the circumstances. His response, verbatim:

"I've been working in Customer Relations for 3 years and I don't know of anyone in our department who would consider what you're asking for 'fair.'"
My response:

I think you've been working in the wrong department. I want my Internet service downgraded from Extreme to Express effective immediately. I will be cancelling my Rogers Internet and switching to TekSavvy as of the end of the month. Goodbye.
I've been a Rogers customer for 20 years, yet I feel oddly relieved by this experience. Robbers treated me badly, but it's driven me to dump them for service provider with a moral compass (TekSavvy). And that's a good thing.


bfksc
Unlimited on Distributel

join:2011-11-22
Toronto, ON

said by Fuzzy Dunlop:

I've been a Rogers customer for 20 years, yet I feel oddly relieved by this experience. Robbers treated me badly, but it's driven me to dump them for service provider with a moral compass (TekSavvy). And that's a good thing.

Welcome to the "I dumped Rogers" camp.

The weird thing about your request for a credit is that it's less than ONE FOURTH of his offer of $40/mth off ($960). I guess his math isn't very good and he didn't realize that your basic request is a much better deal for Rogers. DUH.

Oh well...looks good on them...

Fuzzy Dunlop

join:2011-02-07
Toronto, ON

1 edit

said by bfksc :

The weird thing about your request for a credit is that it's less than ONE FOURTH of his offer of $40/mth off ($960). I guess his math isn't very good and he didn't realize that your basic request is a much better deal for Rogers. DUH.

You would think that. However I've read enough horror stories from Robbers customers who've entered into similar unwritten contracts only to have them reneged upon that I know better than agree to any "promotional offers". I believe this guy said it best:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4


sine

@rogers.com
reply to tdot_rc

just want to make it clear, all these dudes that appear to know what they're talking about saying that a "CSR" has to provision your modem is false. modem provisioning on cable internet is an automatic thing, and powercycling your modem (aka turning off and on again :P) is how you get it re-provisioned.

I was looking at this topic because it was suggested to me from a rogers rep when I was cancelling for teksavvy that on the 12/.5 connection I have if I got the doc 3.0 modem my speeds would be faster, but I'm getting up to 30Mb/s anyway on my SB5100.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

Actually sine, provisioning is a multi-stage process.

The first is step is getting the modem in Rogers registered modems list (if your modem came from other than Rogers)

The second step is Rogers putting your modem in the authorized DHCP lists for the servers and associating it with an account profile

The third step that is NORMALLY automated, is to push the account profile which will essentially do a reset.

The CSRs can do a reset and reassociate your modem with an account profile ... sometimes the required profile entry in the database gets messed up so the wrong profile gets pushed. They can reassociate a profile then push that it in case the modem isn't working as expected. This is what people generally mean when the CSR reprovisions your modem.

If you are on a cable segment with few modems, and your speed has been set faster, you can indeed get up to 38 Mbps with a DOCSIS 2 modem like the SB5100. But the segments with more modems (which is most of them) will suffer speed sag, and under those conditions, you would be way better off with DOCSIS 3. Moreover, the other people on your segment would be happier if you had DOCSIS 3 too particularly if you download at full speed at peak hours!


Fuzzy Dunlop

join:2011-02-07
Toronto, ON

sbrook is right (he always is lol).

However the exact process of provisioning a modem is neither here nor there, since Rogers are the ultimate gate-keepers. Regardless of whether or not modems like the SB6120 will work on Rogers' network, we'll never know, since no CSR I've ever spoken to will authorize one. You don't have to look hard online to find sob stories from customers who've shelled out $150 for a third-party DOCSIS 3 modem, only to be told they can't use it.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13

And the really sad part about Rogers not enabling other DOCSIS modems is that they can and do provision them for 3rd party providers like TSI, Distributel etc!


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by sbrook:

And the really sad part about Rogers not enabling other DOCSIS modems is that they can and do provision them for 3rd party providers like TSI, Distributel etc!

If you put yourself in Rogers' shoes, you might not want the cost overhead, complexity and potential confusion of supporting a dozen extra combinations of manufacturers and models either. Although TPIAs will usually accept any modem on the cableco's approved list unless the cable rejects it for some reason (lost, stolen, non-returned, known-bad, etc.), most TPIA ISPs themselves only recommend, sell and lease 1-2 models themselves as well.