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Red_Rhino

join:2006-03-21
Gainesville, GA

[TiVo] TiVo w/no subscription = DTA

Does anyone currently use a TiVo (w/CableCard), but not pay for their subscription with Comcast cable? I am curious to find out if you are able to see all the channels you pay for, include HD, or if you must pay a subscription to TiVo for it to work.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
You can't get a cablecard to put into the TiVo without having a subscription with Comcast. I have on the other hand had a cablecard that had expired its subscription to Comcast and I was only able to view non copy protected clear qam channels like ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, WB.

Red_Rhino

join:2006-03-21
Gainesville, GA
I guess I should have clarified. I have a subscription with Comcast, I did not want to pay for a subscription to TiVo. I am trying to find out if a subscription to TiVo is really required to view channels on Comcast.


Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
Pretty sure without a subscription to tivo, all you have is a paperweight. Now the Moxi on the other hand will pick up and record clear qam channels without a cable card.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
reply to Red_Rhino
said by Red_Rhino:

I did not want to pay for a subscription to TiVo. I am trying to find out if a subscription to TiVo is really required to view channels on Comcast.

You need to go over here & ask that stuff:

www.tivocommunity.com

But my understanding is...while you probably can use an unsubbed Tivo to view live TV, (& possibly pause it) it will NOT record &/or do any DVR functions w/out a sub. I am not sure if you will get updated guide listings or not w/out a Tivo sub.
But basically, you will be getting a glorified HD cable converter w/out a Tivo sub.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
That is correct - a Tivo without a sub but with a valid Cablecard works fine as an HD STB but nothing else. No DVR, no network capabilities, no guide. Just an STB (with pause/ff/rew of live TV only).

This is a very cheap way to add an HD STB to a house, because you can often find deals on the Premieres for $60-80. Around here Comcast charges $9/mo. to rent an extra HD STB but only $6 net to rent a Cablecard, so the Premiere can pay for itself in a couple of years.

Red_Rhino

join:2006-03-21
Gainesville, GA
This is what I was thinking. Since the first CableCard is free the cost for my CableCard should be $0, since the new Premieres only use 1 CableCard. Not having to pay the $9/mo STB fee, means I should be able to break even on the TiVo box in about a year.

As long as it operates as a HD STB, I can live with the loss functionality of the TiVo (DVR, On Demand, PPV, etc). I was hoping to find someone with this type of set up to validate and see what problems they may have experienced setting this up.

If anyone does have this setup, please let me know.


quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
reply to Red_Rhino
You won't be able to use any of the guides or DVR functionality. You can also only use one tuner, but you do get the 30/60 minute live pause feature. Channel changing by numbers or up/down on the remote only.

Otherwise it will work, and it works well. I never tested to see if the Comcast premium stuff comes through without the TiVO subscription (things like Channel 1 or anything like that).


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Red_Rhino
ah. Yeah I have a TiVo I didn't renew my subscription with, and I can view all the channels I'm paying for with the cablecard, copy protected and otherwise, but I have no program data, I have no HD menu, and I cannot record anything.

Red_Rhino

join:2006-03-21
Gainesville, GA
Mike, great news, so you are able to see HD channels in HD? This is about the only feature I am interested in aside from the channels themselves.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
Of course you get all the HD channels in HD, he's talking about the HD menu that Tivo added with the latest boxes. You don't need it anyway, the SD menu works fine.

You won't get OnDemand with the Tivo, which is the only drawback vs. renting an STB. I have also run an unsubscribed Premiere for a while and it works fine, but be sure to go into settings and set the display banner to disappear quickly, because Tivo will nag that you need a sub when you change channels. Having the banner go away quickly means you don't see it for more than a second or so.


Master Wolfe

join:2009-04-04
Panama City, FL
kudos:1
reply to Red_Rhino
When you buy one, however, iirc, you have a commitment to subscribe for a year, or some such. I have a Premier and a Series 2 DT.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
That is ONLY if you actually sign up for a subscription to the actual Tivo service...but as long as you are NOT buying the box from Tivo themselves, they ain't going to know you have the box in the first place...


Master Wolfe

join:2009-04-04
Panama City, FL
kudos:1
Hmmm, maybe, but wouldn't you have to go through the guided setup when you start up? I just cancelled the sub for my Series 2 this week, and wiped it when I did. Perhaps later I'll try and see what happens.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
I was only talking about (not) needing the 1 year commitment to the Tivo service, when you buy a new Tivo box...


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to Red_Rhino
Just buy the lifetime subscription, you'll enjoy the TiVo boxes much better as they are severely crippled without one. I have 2 TiVo boxes at my house with lifetime subscriptions on both as I refuse to pay $17 per month (per DVR) to rent the Comcast DVRs. And I have two TVs so that means two DVRs. I bought my TiVos when they were still $299 per box but I think the subscriptions were cheaper.

I am glad that Comcast started selling the EMTAs (voice/data modems) as that was the deal breaker for me getting the triple play as they charge $7 per month for a modem or EMTA.
--
All of my CPE (including my EMTA) is customer owned. The only Comcast owned equipment in my house is the CableCards in the two TiVO boxes I own.


Master Wolfe

join:2009-04-04
Panama City, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dishrich
Yes, but when you turn on the BOX, it has to go through a setup process, and it wants to connect to do so, and checks your accounts status when it does. Your TIVO account status... and not having SERVICE would mean that wouldn't go through. Now, I've never needed to avoid it, but seems to me it MIGHT be a pain in the ass to get around.

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
Yes, but when you are setting up a new, virgin box (that you JUST bought) you actually get a "trial" period of service (I believe it's a week) that DOES allow you to complete the setup process. You would then sign up for the actual service AFTER you do this process - but if you do NOT get service, then the box basically "turns off" all the Tivo functions, except for live pause.
And (AGAIN) - if you are NOT signing up for (new) service, Tivo CANNOT get a year's commitment of service out of you, IF you did NOT sign up for it in the first place - get it???

Read the other replies here & go over to the tivocommunity & it will bear this out...


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Master Wolfe
Yes I've had to do the guided setup without the subscription and its the same steps as if you had one just be careful when your viewing channels because the wrong button press will pop up the nag pages.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to IowaCowboy
Lifetime subscriptions are expensive dude, and when a TiVo Premiere is like $99 bucks ($79 bucks on sale on tivo.com until December 22nd) its hard to justify the $300 or $400 dollar cost. Christmas is coming up if you want to get me and rhino one


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to dishrich

saratoga66

join:2002-08-22
Saratoga, CA
kudos:1
reply to Red_Rhino
said by Red_Rhino:

This is what I was thinking. Since the first CableCard is free the cost for my CableCard should be $0, since the new Premieres only use 1 CableCard. Not having to pay the $9/mo STB fee, means I should be able to break even on the TiVo box in about a year.

As long as it operates as a HD STB, I can live with the loss functionality of the TiVo (DVR, On Demand, PPV, etc). I was hoping to find someone with this type of set up to validate and see what problems they may have experienced setting this up.

If anyone does have this setup, please let me know.

The cable card is not really free. Your first STB is included in your cable subscription. You can get a free cable card in place of that box not in addition to it. You are required to pay the outlet fee for each STB you have. If you elect to use a cable card instead of Comcast STB you receive a customer owned equipment credit of about $2.50 so your net cost for a cable card device such as a Tivo is about $5.50/mo.


PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
reply to GTFan
said by GTFan:

That is correct - a Tivo without a sub but with a valid Cablecard works fine as an HD STB but nothing else. No DVR, no network capabilities, no guide. Just an STB (with pause/ff/rew of live TV only).

This is a very cheap way to add an HD STB to a house, because you can often find deals on the Premieres for $60-80. Around here Comcast charges $9/mo. to rent an extra HD STB but only $6 net to rent a Cablecard, so the Premiere can pay for itself in a couple of years.

That is, in fact fine.

I have an *existing* HDTV with CableCARD - however, the TV itself is heading south (after six years - 42" plasma). By purchasing a Premiere (and using the existing CableCARD) I pay no more monthly than I am now, and lose no functionality than I use today.

Premieres are currently in the start of the Yule push (while they are $99 from TivoDirect (»www.tivo.com), some resellers - notably Best Buy - have them for less, and in stock).

We have no DVRs currently, and this will be the only Tivo (for now).


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to Red_Rhino
Have you thought about a Moxi? Full DVR features and cablecard without the subscription feeshttp://www.moxi.com/us/

dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
Well there IS a (lifetime) sub fee...it's really no different that paying for a lifetime Tivo upfront.

Also, you DO realize that your "lifetime" Moxi DVR you keep bringing up, is ONLY good as long as Moxi keeps supporting their product. I have MUCH more faith in Tivo being around longer than Moxi will - & when it isn't, you've now got a glorified cable box w/out DVR features. (assuming you are even THAT lucky & that it doesn't simply turn into a brick...)

Ask us folks that have all those Replay DVR's that are now in the same boat, now that the guide service died since last July...


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
hmm well i do hope that both companies stay around and you do bring up a good point, but many, die hard TiVo users who have had the product since series 1, like from the tivocommunity forums, have lost faith in the company, either because of lack of software updates, poor hardware performance, or a long list of other things. They feel that TiVo as a company is on the decline. Moxi on the other hand has been purchased a few times with different companies. Digeo was founded in 1999 (originally under the name Broadband Partners, Inc.) by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, with headquarters in Kirkland, Washington. In the same year, Rearden Steel was started by Steve Perlman, founder of WebTV, under a veil of secrecy. In 2000, Rearden Steel was renamed to Moxi Digital while at the same time unveiling a line of media centers designed to bridge the gap between PCs and TVs. Digeo, Inc. purchased Moxi Digital in 2002. Digeo kept its own name but adopted the 'Moxi' name as its product family name. Most of Moxi Digital's staff were kept as well as its Palo Alto offices. Digeo also adopted most of the Moxi hardware, (originally focused on satellite consumer electronics) as well as some of the Linux extensions. These were merged into Digeo's own Linux-based infrastructure and cable-specific hardware, with Digeo's prized user interface, now known as Moxi Menu, on top.

On September 22, 2009, the assets of Digeo, Inc. were purchased by ARRIS Group, Inc., a global communications technology company specializing in the design and engineering of broadband networks. ARRIS is a developer, manufacturer and supplier of cable telephony, video and high-speed data equipment, as well as outside plant construction and maintenance equipment for cable system operators. ARRIS has announced that they will continue to develop and market the Moxi product line to both retail customers and cable operators.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to dishrich
said by dishrich:

Well there IS a (lifetime) sub fee...it's really no different that paying for a lifetime Tivo upfront.

Yep thats what I did, paid $549 for a new TIVO premiere that includes a lifetime service plan. Thats $50 less then a Moxi.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
yet the Moxi has full HD menu's, up to date channel logos, and user accessable hard drive plus support for 6TB hard drive's via eSATA in addition to the fact that it has 3 tuner's standard without extra cost. with a tivo you would need to purchase the elite for $499 to get 4 tuners and thats not including the lifetime subscription.


Master Wolfe

join:2009-04-04
Panama City, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
Click for full size
said by Mike Wolf:

yet the Moxi has full HD menu's, up to date channel logos, and user accessable hard drive plus support for 6TB hard drive's via eSATA in addition to the fact that it has 3 tuner's standard without extra cost. with a tivo you would need to purchase the elite for $499 to get 4 tuners and thats not including the lifetime subscription.

It's early, and I'm barely awake, but went to the Moxi site (www.moxi.com) to get current pricing, and I'll be damned if I can find any prices. Help a sleepy moron out?

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
The Moxi is no longer for sale, and Arris basically doesn't support it any more other than mandatory warranty repair and program guide updates. They bought out Digeo to get the intellectual property for the DVR code, not to sell units at retail. So they sold out the remaining stock and used the tech in new products that they are pitching to the cableCos, because that's the market they're in (gee, sound familiar? See - Motorola and Scientific Atlanta/Cisco).