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BronsCon
join:2003-10-24
Fairfield, CA

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BronsCon to howardfine

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to howardfine

Re: Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) Vote Delayed

SOPA removes the judicial branch from the process. I know very well how the branches of government work and SOPA circumvents that.

Edit: The other thread isn't relevant here, but, since you brought it up, you might want to review my response in that thread. You were building strawman arguments, I simply didn't see it worth my time to call you out on it. Now that I have, do you feel better?

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

1 recommendation

Blackbird to howardfine

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to howardfine
said by howardfine:

said by Mele20:

Congress is so determined to destroy the internet and violate our Constitutonal rights

Which rights? What will be destroyed?
quote:
It is in TOTAL VIOLATION of the US Constitution.
Please explain which part it violates...

Do you believe it's legitimate, even Constitutional, for one private party to use governmental coercion to shut down the financial concerns of another private party simply based on untrialed allegations? Do you believe there are adequate (or any) means in the legislation for court-trial appeal by a site or organization placed on the government blacklist as the result of a mere "allegation"? If so, please cite that part of the legislation. And is it Constitutional to be forced to prove one's innocence in order to lift legal sanctions imposed without trial. From the original Ars Technica article:
quote:
The measure, meanwhile, also grants private companies the ability to de-fund websites they allege to be trafficking in unauthorized copyright and trademark goods. Rights holders may ask judges to order ad networks and banks to stop doing business with a site dedicated to infringing activities.

The legislation also gives legal immunity to financial institutions and ad networks that choose to boycott the rogue sites even without having been ordered to do so.
...
Do you not also have privacy concerns or freedom-of-the-Internet concerns about governmental legislation that mandates the blocking and/or deep traffic inspection involving certain websites? Again, from the Ars Technica article:
quote:
...if ISPs choose not to introduce false information into DNS at the urging of the Justice Department, they instead would be required to employ some other method, such as deep-packet inspection...

ISPs, could, for instance, adopt tactics used by the Great Chinese Firewall to sniff for traffic going to a blacklisted site and simply block it.
...
The committee heard from the Motion Picture Industry Association of America at a SOPA hearing last month, but has never called an expert on internet architecture.
...
Also lodged into the record was an open letter from 83 prominent internet engineers, including Vint Cert, John Gilmore and L. Jean Camp.

"The US government has regularly claimed that it supports a free and open internet, both domestically and abroad. We cannot have a free and open Internet unless its naming and routing systems sit above the political concerns and objectives of any one government or industry," they wrote.
...

EGeezer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-04
Midwest

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Here's a list of organizations and key people who oppose SOPA;
»www.net-coalition.com/wp ··· ec16.pdf

There's nothing like overreaching government restrictions and regulation to limit legitimate private behavior and stifle legitimate business innovation and competition. It seems that the politicians who loudly espouse individual freedom and less government regulation of business have flipped their philosophy when it comes to preventing a communist China style internet.

Here's an article on the effects of SOPA;
»news.cnet.com/8301-31921 ··· you-faq/
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

1 recommendation

OZO

Premium Member

And again, at the root of the new "Act" is the old f***ng MPAA/RIAA, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. and Hollywood. They still corrupt our government by donating money to buying campaign committee of those, who then push the bill... Why we allow the vivid corruption to continue in our country?

EGeezer See Profile thanks for the link. Nice reading...
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20 to howardfine

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to howardfine
said by howardfine:

Simple. Continue doing what they are doing. End of story.

Of course there is. Legitimate sites sell legal products. Rogue sites sell illegal products. Problem solved.

Everyone knows Walgreens and CVS are nothing but crooks. They'll be the first to go. Yes.

The medicine that keeps me alive (since I was 15 years old) is illegal in the USA, as of a couple of years ago, due to the corrupt FDA. The Canadian pharmacy sells this medicine which is legal in EVERY NATION IN THE WORLD except the USA. Of course, the Canadian pharmacy will be silenced by our Gestapo. Ironically, the medicine is from Phizier which is a major USA pharmaceutical cartel. They don't sell it in the USA because they don't want to spend millions of dollars to meet the FDA's demands (FDA is determined to make illegal all medicine that was available before the FDA was formed and was grandfathered when FDA regulations for NDA were passed. FDA now claims all these medicines, many of which are close to 100 years old, are suddenly very dangerous to Americans health (not dangerous to folks anywhere else in the world though). FDA plans to ban aspirin also. FDA says that these medicines must now undergo NDA if they are to be sold in the USA. That's millions of dollars and a 7-10 year process before approval by FDA and because these medicines have been in the public domain for close to 100 years the companies that make them will not recoup the NDA costs because they cannot charge outrageous prices for them.

I can't get this medicine at Walgreens or CVS both of which are at best so-so drugstores. We used to have a fabulous drugstore for over 50 years in Hawaii ....a California chain that got sold a few years back to CVS which has proceeded to almost ruin the stores here. Walgreens is NOT a drugstore They sell very little OTC drug and pharmacy type items and what they do sell they charge twice as much as other drug stores in Hawaii. Instead they sell toys, luggage, all sorts of junk items that have zero to do with what real drugstores sell. CVS, at least, hasn't gotten rid of the OTC drug items but is always out of stock on many items and it treats its employees badly and that get passed on to the customers, whereas, the prior chain treated employees extremely well and that was passed to the "treasured" customers.

Cartel
Intel inside Your sensitive data outside
Premium Member
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC

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»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· d2G3vrpE

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

2 recommendations

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How Copyright Industries Con Congress
quote:
I’ve yet to encounter a technically clueful person who believes the Stop Online Piracy Act will actually do anything to meaningfully reduce—let alone “stop”—online piracy, and so I haven’t bothered writing much about the absurd numbers the bill’s supporters routinely bandy about in hopes of persuading lawmakers that SOPA will be an economic boon and create zillions of jobs. If the proposed solution just won’t work, after all, why bother quibbling about the magnitude of the problem? But then I saw the very astute David Carr’s otherwise excellent column on SOPA’s pitfalls, which took those inflated numbers more or less as gospel. If only because I’m offended to see bad data invoked so routinely and brazenly, on general principle, it’s important to try to set the record straight. The movie and music recording industry have gotten away with using statistics that don’t stand up to the most minimal scrutiny, over and over, for years, to hoodwink both Congress and the general public. Wherever you come down on any particular piece of legislation, this is not how policy should get made in a democracy, and it’s high time they were shamed into cutting it out.

... snip ...

As one expert consulted by GAO put it, “effects of piracy within the United States are mainly redistributions within the economy for other purposes and that they should not be considered as a loss to the overall economy.” In many cases—I’ve seen research suggesting it’s about 80 percent for music—a U.S. consumer would not have otherwise purchased an illicitly downloaded song or movie if piracy were not an option. Here, the result is actually pure consumer surplus: The downloader enjoys the benefit, and the producer loses nothing. In the other 20 percent of cases, the result is a loss to the content industry, but not a let loss to the economy, since the money just ends up being spent elsewhere. If you’re concerned about the overall jobs picture, as opposed to the fortunes of a specific industry, there is no good reason to think eliminating piracy by U.S. users would yield any jobs on net, though it might help boost employment in copyright-intensive sectors. (Oh, and that business about 19 million jobs? Also bogus.)

Does that mean online piracy is harmless? Of course not. But the harm is a dynamic loss in allocative efficiency, which is much harder to quantify. That is, in the cases where a consumer would have been willing to buy an illicitly downloaded movie, album, or software program, we want the market to be accurately signalling demand for the products people value, rather than whatever less-valued use that money gets spent on instead. This is, in fact, very important! It’s a good reason to look for appropriately tailored ways to reduce piracy, so that the market devotes resources to production of new creativity and innovation valued by consumers, rather than to other, less efficient purposes. Indeed, it’s a good reason to look for ways of doing this that, unlike SOPA, might actually work.

It is not, however, a good reason to spend $47 million in taxpayer dollars—plus untold millions more in ISP compliance costs—turning the Justice Department into a pro bono litigation service for Hollywood in hopes of generating a jobs and a revenue bonanza for the U.S. economy. Any “research” suggesting we can expect that kind of result from Internet censorship is a fiction more fanciful than singing chipmunks.
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

OZO

Premium Member

goalieskates See Profile - thanks for the link to the article. Someone shows the common sense, finally...

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

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Doctor Four to FF4me

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According to a comment I read on Slashdot, the supporters of SOPA are "operating on the Internet without a doctor or nurse in the room."

Most politicians are utterly clueless about technology. And to some, being a Luddite is a badge of honor.

FF4me
@newsouth.net

FF4me to FF4me

Anon

to FF4me
SOPA: Paving The Road To American Fascism - January 3, 2012:

"He who controls information controls the world."

Adolf Hitler understood this. So did Ceausescu. And Branco. These men forged tyrannical regimes based upon regulating and monitoring the control of information through censorship laws and government propaganda channels.

Now America's government seems bent on a similar path, only its approach involves a far less romanticized view of the world. Instead of propaganda, the U.S. Government intends to simply cut off the supply of information and isolate its availability to central (and quite biased) news providers.

The passage of the Stop Online Piracy Act signals America's journey down this route to tyranny because it severely cripples the one remaining free source of media in the country: the world wide web.

In short, the government is making certain that any free distribution of information for educational purposes is quashed once and for all in a move meant to eventually wipe out streaks of dissent throughout the country. Without the freedom to spread news on the internet, Americans lose their last means of communicating without being under constant government surveillance. Fused with the Patriot Act and the National Defense Authorization Act, the new law gives the government nearly untouched power to triangulate, isolate, and execute citizens who do not stand in line with its rules or decrees.

If Americans were ever to rebel, we would find ourselves outmaneuvered, outgunned, and overpowered within mere hours, as the government's power has gotten so great that it easily goes beyond the wildest dreams of anything endorsed by the Nazi-Marxist-Militarist axis.

And the sad truth is, most Americans will remain oblivious to the facts while the government endlessly consolidates its totalitarian control over their lives.


coldmoon
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Fulton, NY

2 recommendations

coldmoon

Premium Member

Well worth a read:

»www.techdirt.com/article ··· le.shtml

Cory D., puts on a really good presentation that I think fits into this discussion nicely...

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates

Premium Member

Excellent article, well worth the read. Thanks!

FF4me
@rr.com

FF4me

Anon

said by goalieskates:

Excellent article, well worth the read. Thanks!

+1

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium Member
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

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Geeks to Testify About SOPA Blacklisting Implications
quote:
Rep. Darrell Issa (R-California), a major opponent of the Stop Online Piracy Act, announced Monday he is bringing in the techies to hold a public hearing highlighting the online security implications of a proposed bill that would force changes to internet infrastructure to fight online copyright infringement.

The announcement came three weeks after a markup of SOPA in the House Judiciary Committee was abruptly postponed amid concerns over its blacklisting element, which lets the attorney general order changes to core internet infrastructure in order to stop copyright infringement.

The fight pits the big donors of Hollywood against Silicon Valley, relative newcomers to the world of influence peddling. Hollywood argues that millions of jobs are lost a year due to pirate websites, while the tech world argues that the open nature of the internet has created millions of jobs and that copyright holders already have tools to fight illegal downloaders.
More

FF4me
@rr.com

FF4me to FF4me

Anon

to FF4me
US pressured Spain to implement online piracy law, leaked files shows:

US ambassador threatened Spain with 'retaliation actions' if the country did not pass tough new Sopa-style internet piracy laws

Study Confirms: News Networks Owned By SOPA Supporters... Are Ignoring SOPA/PIPA:

While the debates about SOPA/PIPA have been raging all over the internet, and appearing regularly in all sorts of mainstream newspapers, they still have been almost entirely absent from TV news. ...the major TV news players are all owned by media conglomerates who have been major backers of SOPA/PIPA. There was some indication that cable news was starting to pay attention... but things have gone quiet since then (perhaps upper management sent out a memo...).

SOPA sponsor Rep. Lamar Smith to SOPA opponents: You don't matter:

Rep. Lamar Smith, the chief sponsor of the 'Stop Online Piracy Act' (SOPA), has dismissed the opposition to SOPA as illegitimate and of minor importance.

SOPA increases Congressmen's campaign funds:

According to Open Congress, these companies have paid over $21 million to make sure the legislation goes through. To be fair, those companies who are opposed to the legislation are bribing congress too. But they have not fronted up quite so much cash. If you want to be bribed by an anti-SOPA company, they have only spent $5 million.

Open Congress shows the real winners have been Sen. Harry Reid who collected $3,502,624, Charles Schumer who made $2,648,770, Kirsten Gillibrand who has banked $2,080,651, Barbara Boxer who made $1,431,843, Scott Brown who counted $1,364,872, Robert Portman who is happy with his $1,363,009, Patrick Toomey who collected $1,291,744 and Michael Bennet who was paid $1,019,172.

Bribe money to the anti-SOPA case seems to be a lot more targeted, with only Sen. Michael Bennet walking away with over a million, $1,312,404.

Basically, it means that you can get any joke law passed in the US if you have enough cash to buy a politician. When this news is made public no one is expected to resign.

Boycott SOPA for Android Scans Products, Warns You If the Manufacturer Supports SOPA">:

Once installed, use Boycott SOPA to scan the barcodes of books, CDs, magazines, DVDs, and other media to see if the producer or publisher is a member of the RIAA, MPAA, the BSA, or another organization that's publicly supported SOPA.

Much like the No SOPA Chrome add-on, Boycott SOPA is designed to warn you if you're about to support a company or product that in turn supports the bill.

OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

OZO

Premium Member

said by FF4me :

SOPA increases Congressmen's campaign funds:

Sen. Harry Reid who collected $3,502,624, Charles Schumer who made $2,648,770, Kirsten Gillibrand who has banked $2,080,651, Barbara Boxer who made $1,431,843, Scott Brown who counted $1,364,872, Robert Portman who is happy with his $1,363,009, Patrick Toomey who collected $1,291,744 and Michael Bennet who was paid $1,019,172. ... Sen. Michael Bennet walking away with over a million, $1,312,404.

Basically, it means that you can get any joke law passed in the US if you have enough cash to buy a politician. When this news is made public no one is expected to resign.

If bribing our Congress is not illegal yet, it must be declared so ASAP.

I think this country urgently needs the new legislation - Stop Government Corruption Act (SGCA). It short it should contain:

Corporations are prohibited to make any direct contributions to any campaign funds. They are welcomed though to make contributions of any size to a general election fund, distributed equally among all its participants.

Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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Thank you for the link to No SOPA extension for Chrome/Iron. I've been checking via your earlier list of supporters of SOPA. It works good!

How come Fx doesn't have an extension like this? Chrome has TWO (other one is Protest SOPA)...Fx NONE.

redxii
Mod
join:2001-02-26
Michigan

redxii to OZO

Mod

to OZO
You do realize you're suggesting Congress make bribery in Congress illegal, right?
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

OZO

Premium Member

Yes, I do.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

Premium Member

Hrmph, they cannot even legislate themselves to stop insider trading. Anti-bribery legislation will have to wait.
MomOfARocker
join:2009-06-07
Canada

MomOfARocker

Member

Sponsor: Protect IP Act may be amended in response to concerns
»www.computerworld.com/s/ ··· concerns

FF4me
@rr.com

FF4me to Mele20

Anon

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Thank you for the link to No SOPA extension for Chrome/Iron.

You're welcome.
said by Mele20:

How come Fx doesn't have an extension like this? Chrome has TWO (other one is Protest SOPA)...Fx NONE.

These are new & 'experimental':

DeSopa
SOPA Detector
FF4me

FF4me

Anon

Obama Administration Comes Out Against SOPA And Protect IP
Official White House Response to Stop the E-PARASITE Act
Momentum shift: SOPA, PIPA opponents now in driver's seat

The broad support in the U.S. government for two controversial antipiracy bills appears to be collapsing.

Minecraft developer says “No sane person can be for SOPA”

SOPA author won’t back down

SOPA author involved in copyright infringement claim

Hate SOPA and want to join the Jan. 18 blackout? There’s a WordPress plugin for that

Game industry unrest swells as SOPA hearing approaches

Major League Gaming Joins SOPA Blackout, Pulls 100 GoDaddy.com Domain Names

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

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Regarding SOPA/PIPA:
I was wondering which elected representatives were serving their constituents who voted them in and which were serving the industries that paid for their election campaigns.

ProPublica was kind enough to provide that information.

My screen cap app mangled the capture, so here's the top supporters.




And here's the whole tally.




along with the bottom of the mangled SOPA-supporter column.




NV
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

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SOPA supported by Congress Critters who piss on the American Flag while starting their fireplace with the constitution and keep the bill of rights in their gold plated bathroom(which was just a kind gift from the MPAA) for toilet paper.

FF4me
@newsouth.net

FF4me to FF4me

Anon

to FF4me
SOPA Derailed:

U.S. House Judiciary Committee Member Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA), and Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) opponent has announced that he has been assured by House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has promised him that he will not bring the bill to the floor. That mean, for all practical intents and purposes, that SOPA is dead.

Issa concluded that he intends to continue to push for Congress to heed the advice of Internet experts on anti-piracy legislation and to push for the consideration and passage of the bipartisan OPEN Act, which provides an alternative means for protecting intellectual property rights without undermining the structure and entrepreneurialism of the Internet. You can learn more about Rep. Issa and Sen. Ron Wyden’s alternative, the OPEN Act at its Web site.


ltsnow
Premium Member
join:2006-04-08
Valdosta, GA

ltsnow

Premium Member

Well this certainly is good news for now, but we must keep our guard up.

coldmoon
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Fulton, NY

coldmoon

Premium Member

said by ltsnow:

Well this certainly is good news for now, but we must keep our guard up.

As well you should due to the fact that PIPA is still alive and Leader Reid is still vowing to bring it to a vote on the floor of the Senate...

FF4me
@newsouth.net

FF4me

Anon

said by coldmoon:

said by ltsnow:

Well this certainly is good news for now, but we must keep our guard up.

As well you should due to the fact that PIPA is still alive and Leader Reid is still vowing to bring it to a vote on the floor of the Senate...

+1

DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium Member
join:2001-07-23
Bristol, CT

1 recommendation

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It's down! Everybody start kicking and stomping!

Keep kicking and stomping until it doesn't move any more. Then chop off the head and run the body through a wood chipper. It might also be a good idea to burn the remains and douse the ashes in holy water, just for good measure. Scatter the ashes as widely as possible.

No, wait... Now that I think of it, we might want to leave the head intact so we can stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that protection for some corporations sometimes comes at too high a price to people. Then we can look up at the lifeless head and wave...
[/Vir Cotto paraphrase]