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Zippppp
@151.190.0.x

Zippppp to hortnut

Anon

to hortnut

Re: Zip Code at pump for gas

I get gas at Shell all the time, and they've never asked me for my ZIP code.

peterboro, I've never had a problem speaking English with anyone in Quebec. Only the occasional ATM or gas pump (and those I can usually guess what it says).

angussf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-11
Tucson, AZ

angussf to janderia

Premium Member

to janderia
said by janderia:

If someone were to steal my wallet, they've got my zip code. If anyone keeps their driver's license in their wallet, then the thief has that information already.

Not necessarily. My billing ZIP is not the same as my license ZIP for my primary work CC, and I'm glad to keep it that way.

Once when we were travelling and saw a good deal on a suitcase, the person in the store entered the wrong ZIP on our Discover card, and the card immediately was put on hold. We had to call Discover and get the hold released before we could use the card again.

quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium Member
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI

1 recommendation

quetwo to janderia

Premium Member

to janderia
What they are trying to combat is people skimming cards, not people stealing the wallet. Skimming has become a larger and larger industry, with LOTS of people getting snagged with it. They won't know your ZIP if they skim -- it is not normally info that they ask for.

After they skim your card, what usually happens is they go to a gas station and pump $5 worth of gas. If the card goes through, then they go on a spending spree. If it gets declined (reported stolen) then they go in and pay the $5 in cash and toss the card. Adding the ZIP auth means that they can't do that.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
I have only ever been to one gas pump up here (maine) that asked for zip code. When I head south they are the norm. Not sure why that is. Maybe Maine is more secure or there is less fraud?

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

1 recommendation

drew to Mele20

Premium Member

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Seems to me the real reason is to gather more salable information about you. I hate it when retail stores ask for my zip.

I've honest to God, worked in the CC industry. I worked for a company going through their PCI-DSS certification (that they acheived btw) as a software payment gateway.

When you provide a zipcode to the merchant (like at a gas station pump), they send that zipcode to the processor in order to get better rates on their transactions IF the zipcode matches what's on the account. You will notice that even if you put the incorrect zipcode into the machine, it will accept the card anyway. The merchant rarely, especially if they are large enough, would configure their system to decline a transaction in this scenario.

There are plenty of merchants out there that want to collect data on who is visiting their stores. When I go to a merchant that asks for my zip and I'm paying by cash (rarely), I rarely decline to provide it. There's absolutely nothing personally identifying about a zipcode by itself. It's just a metric, nothing more.

FutureMon
Dude Whats mine say?

join:2000-10-05
Marina, CA

FutureMon

Well my billing zip at the time was 80921.

When I tried to use that zip at a California Arco station, it refused. I had to go inside.

That big enough for ya?

- FM

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

drew

Premium Member

That's HIGHLY unusual. Most businesses have their payment systems configured to run the transaction anyway if the zip is wrong.

Didn't Arco JUST start accepting credit cards?
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned) to drew

Member

to drew
said by drew:

You will notice that even if you put the incorrect zipcode into the machine, it will accept the card anyway.

I've tried that several times with the only zip code the rest of the world knows, 90210 and it didn't work.

Just got off the phone with the cc company and changed my address to my Florida residence while I drive down there and back so we will see if that works.

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

drew

Premium Member

I have little knowledge of international credit card processing, sorry.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me that gas stations are tightening down on the transactions. They're a major source of fradulent transactions.

FutureMon
Dude Whats mine say?

join:2000-10-05
Marina, CA

FutureMon to drew

to drew
said by drew:

That's HIGHLY unusual. Most businesses have their payment systems configured to run the transaction anyway if the zip is wrong.

Didn't Arco JUST start accepting credit cards?

We're talking about debit cards here.

- FM

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

drew

Premium Member

Everyone else is talking about CCs but you it seems.

FutureMon
Dude Whats mine say?

join:2000-10-05
Marina, CA

FutureMon

Oops. Brain fart! My bad.

- FM
raythompsontn
join:2001-01-11
Oliver Springs, TN

raythompsontn to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

Great idea! That way somebody only has to walk next to you to get a signal from the chip to steal your information. Makes it much easier for them that [than] having to actually get the card.

Bzzzzttttt, wrong. Chipped cards do not work that way. There is no RF-ID capability. Instead the chips on the card require a connection to circuitry that reads, and writes, to the chip on the card. Examine the card carefully and you will notice some gold plated contacts on the card. These are the connections to the chip itself. The card reader (and writer) has the capability to connect to the chip on the card.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

Great idea! That way somebody only has to walk next to you to get a signal from the chip to steal your information. Makes it much easier for them that having to actually get the card.

Awesome! And here is the comment of the week. Someone who doesn't understand the difference between wireless(RFID)and a card chip(though our credit cards have them too--I'm just too lazy to look for another link), which is physically encrypted on the card. Now tell me, how does someone walk up beside you and get information off a card wirelessly from a physical object that doesn't transmit something? I'll be standing here doing a facepalm while you figure it out.
said by peterboro:

I'm off to the states next month and using a credit card for gas and with my non-existent zip code so it will be hit and miss once again along the way.

The further south one goes the more the co-pilot has to go in and stand at the register to pre-authorize the payment to pump gas.

Well it's not only south but it's also very hit or miss even in every state, I drove through MI, IA, WI, WA, OH, ND, SD, about two months ago, and I could hit one station across the road that needed a zipcode, and on my way back through I hit the one across the street that didn't. What's worse, is that most of these stations are using 'upgraded' software that's supposed to recognize canadian cards but don't, and the manufacture isn't responding to complaints.

evil_gusgus
join:2008-04-14
London, ON

evil_gusgus to aefstoggaflm

Member

to aefstoggaflm
I bought a SIM card a T-Mobile a few weeks ago and it made me enter a zip code. Confused the guy working there and me as I'm from Canada. It had spaces for up to 6 numbers but only let you entered 5 so I ended up using some BS number and it worked. I've also never been to a gas station here in canada that requires you to pay before you pump gas.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

Really? I can think of a dozen of them around london that require them. Around Woodstock though, the Ultramar at the 230 off the 401, along with the Esso off the 238 between 9pm and 6am a bunch around Brantford, and plenty in Toronto.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned) to evil_gusgus

Member

to evil_gusgus
said by evil_gusgus:

I've also never been to a gas station here in canada that requires you to pay before you pump gas.

Like I said we had one here in Peterpatch, a Shell, that lasted less than two years trying that BS.

As of The 24th I'm a faux American so we will see if my card works down in the US with my new zip code.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
This feature is typically activated by the demands of the credit card companies, not the merchants. What typically happens is the station has stolen cards used at the pumps and then chargebacks occur, the station loses the money, and if there are too many of these then the credit card companies will impose this requirement on the station if they still want to take credit cards.

It does cause some problems. Visitors from Canada for example cannot use cards at these pumps. Also fleet cards or cards where companies issue them to employees often don't work either, for obvious reasons. It hurts the stations that have to do it, but they have no choice.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to aefstoggaflm

Premium Member

to aefstoggaflm
I know Wawa does not require a zip code yet. but the Shell down the road does.

Guessing though that could partly be that Wawa stations I think are all corporate owned so its not a private business to the CC companies but a large multi-state retailer.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to beck

Premium Member

to beck
Not true. The retailers will be penalized by credit card companies if their station has chargebacks from stolen cards and will have to impose the zip code "feature" or that station could face much higher fees. It's not an incentive, it's a penalty.
KrK

KrK to Snowy

Premium Member

to Snowy
said by Snowy:

said by beck:

The retailer gets a better rate if they add the zipcode.

Yes, that's a great point, it explains why it's not a universal practice.
It's a retailers business decision, nothing forced by credit card issuers or processors.

Nope. It's often not the retailers decision, and is forced on them in the form of do this or else. It's based on credit card fraud at the location. This is why you can see the same chain where SOME stations require it and some don't. It costs business, so it's not liked among merchants, but also, killer penalty rates or not accepting cards period is not an option, so there you go.

Snowy
Lock him up!!!
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI

Snowy

Premium Member

said by KrK:

said by Snowy:

said by beck:

The retailer gets a better rate if they add the zipcode.

Yes, that's a great point, it explains why it's not a universal practice.
It's a retailers business decision, nothing forced by credit card issuers or processors.

Nope. It's often not the retailers decision,...

It's a retailers prerogative to implement or not implement 100% of the time.
Motivations will vary but at the end of the day it comes down to a business decision made by the retailer.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

It's very much a store by store basis. You will see corporate owned stores, only a few will have it, most won't. The reason why is it costs business and annoys customers, but that particular location is facing penalty rates, so they really have little choice if they want to remain competitive. They aren't happy about it, trust me.

janderia
join:2001-02-16
Alexandria, VA

janderia to swannyva

Member

to swannyva
said by angussf:

Once when we were travelling and saw a good deal on a suitcase, the person in the store entered the wrong ZIP on our Discover card, and the card immediately was put on hold. We had to call Discover and get the hold released before we could use the card again.

I've actually tried entering the wrong zip at gas stations. It's never worked for me though. When it hasn't worked, I just wound up paying cash instead as I'm not keen on offering my zip.
said by swannyva:

...a PIN is not commonly required as it is considered "deadly" to an industry that only makes money if you use the card. The CC industry has thrived on the ease of use and the universal acceptance of their product.



That's probably true for most people but it didn't work for me. I now go through the extra hassle of pre-paying cash at the counter rather than paying by credit at the pump with a zip. It's too bad they won't offer folks the choice of a PIN or using their zip.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

Give it another 2-3 years and they'll figure out that chipping cards is a good idea and a super easy way to defeat CC fraud. Chipping requires a pin, unless it's credit. Though, some credit cards also require the use of a pin. Especially bank chipped cards. All gas pumps up here that take credit cards will take interac cards(same as a cheque card in the US), and withdraw funds directly from your bank account. And most stations have, will be, or very soon be rolling out updated readers at the pumps for chipped cards for both interac and credit cards.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US. I don't use debit cards. I use credit cards but not if I had to enter a pin. There is no way at most retailers to enter a pin and not have it read by anyone nearby. Plus, who wants the hassle? Credit cards are supposed to be easy and fast to use. I love that there is no need to sign now if the amount is under $30-$50 depending on the store. That makes it a lot faster.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US.

Yet you have to pre-pay for gas without a peep whereas most of us find it offensive, at least around here.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

said by peterboro:

said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US.

Yet you have to pre-pay for gas without a peep whereas most of us find it offensive, at least around here.

Not if you use a credit card. You only pre-pay if you are using cash or if the pump is messed up and you then have to go to the cashier window to have them manually run the card. But, generally, a credit card works fine. No asking for zip code either. I have noticed though that a credit card issued by a LOCAL Hawaii bank has less problems than does one from a mainland bank even if that bank is Chase, Discover, etc.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_ to janderia

Premium Member

to janderia
said by janderia:

RThat covers both pick-pockets and fraudulent cards. I find myself wondering why PINs weren't used. Unless... the credit card companies are allowing gas stations to keep our zip codes for marketing purposes. There is no privacy these days!

that is because PIN's on credit cards are used as cash advances

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to Mele20

Member

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US. I don't use debit cards. I use credit cards but not if I had to enter a pin. There is no way at most retailers to enter a pin and not have it read by anyone nearby. Plus, who wants the hassle? Credit cards are supposed to be easy and fast to use. I love that there is no need to sign now if the amount is under $30-$50 depending on the store. That makes it a lot faster.

As peterboro said, and yet you're stuck with prepay, and you're stuck with zipcodes, and you're stuck with refusal of cash, and, several other things. The whole point behind pins on chip is that it's more secure than a zipcode.

Creditcards were more easy and fast to use until people started getting their identities stolen left-right and centre. It was easier and faster to use, until CC companies started instituting policies that slowed up the process to reduce the CC fraud(zip codes). If you really believe that the extra 8 seconds to put in a pin is a hassle, well I guess that's your sad luck. Maybe it's just because us canucks live in canada, but you know I don't see people staring over the shoulders of someone trying to glare at their pin numbers.