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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to hortnut

Member

to hortnut

Re: Zip Code at pump for gas

said by hortnut:

If someone gets my card and does not enter the correct zip code associated with the card, it is rejected.

It is a little added security, that is better than none.

Would be better if you guys just moved to chipping your cards like we did up here in Canada. Nothing quite like getting asked for a zipcode that doesn't exist, and then the machine in the store asking for it too. Then waiting 10mins on the phone for some idiot to figure it out and verbally authorize the transaction. Luckily that only happened once, though the 'ask for zip' at the machine happens a lot.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

said by Mashiki:

Would be better if you guys just moved to chipping your cards like we did up here in Canada.

Great idea! That way somebody only has to walk next to you to get a signal from the chip to steal your information. Makes it much easier for them that having to actually get the card.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned) to Mashiki

Member

to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

Would be better if you guys just moved to chipping your cards like we did up here in Canada. Nothing quite like getting asked for a zipcode that doesn't exist, and then the machine in the store asking for it too. Then waiting 10mins on the phone for some idiot to figure it out and verbally authorize the transaction. Luckily that only happened once, though the 'ask for zip' at the machine happens a lot.

I'm off to the states next month and using a credit card for gas and with my non-existent zip code so it will be hit and miss once again along the way.

The further south one goes the more the co-pilot has to go in and stand at the register to pre-authorize the payment to pump gas.
swannyva
join:2002-04-22
Herndon, VA

1 recommendation

swannyva to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
Interesting thread! First, asking for zip or card codes, etc. are retailer specific, rarely if ever issuer motivated. The retailer feels it will eat less loss asking for a zip, especially gas stations, where stolen cards have been historically "tested" before heading for the electronics store for the big score.

Second, remember this every time you are required to provide secondary confirmation - that they are protecting themselves, not you. Your liability limit has been set by law.

Lastly, although the zip requirement may seem to contradict this (see my first comment), a PIN is not commonly required as it is considered "deadly" to an industry that only makes money if you use the card. The CC industry has thrived on the ease of use and the universal acceptance of their product.

Snowy
Lock him up!!!
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI

1 recommendation

Snowy

Premium Member

said by swannyva:

Interesting thread!

Absolutely! Let's use it to clear up some common misconceptions too.
said by swannyva:

First, asking for zip or card codes, etc. are retailer specific, rarely if ever issuer motivated.

True, it's a business decision made by the business (not limited to gas stations)
said by swannyva:

The retailer feels it will eat less loss asking for a zip, especially gas stations,

Not true. The business will be paid regardless of whether the transaction is fraudulent or not. The exceptions to this are far out of the scope of this discussion & don't come into play with the corner gas station.
said by swannyva:

...where stolen cards have been historically "tested" before heading for the electronics store for the big score.

True.
said by swannyva:

Second, remember this every time you are required to provide secondary confirmation - that they are protecting themselves, not you.

It's true their protecting themselves but it's in the form of lower operating costs, it lowers the % that retailers pay for their transactions not from loss due to fraudulent CC use.(see above)
said by swannyva:

Your liability limit has been set by law.

True. The hassle of having to deal with fraudulent use of one's credit card is another matter.
said by swannyva:

Lastly, although the zip requirement may seem to contradict this (see my first comment), a PIN is not commonly required as it is considered "deadly" to an industry that only makes money if you use the card. The CC industry has thrived on the ease of use and the universal acceptance of their product.

Absolutely true.

ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia

ashrc4 to Msradell

Premium Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

said by Mashiki:

Would be better if you guys just moved to chipping your cards like we did up here in Canada.

Great idea! That way somebody only has to walk next to you to get a signal from the chip to steal your information. Makes it much easier for them that having to actually get the card.

There is two types of tech used in CC's that are being confused here.
One encrypts card data (CHIPPED (Very well)), the other (RFID) allows for payment (+ Limited details) to be used by passing card near scanner.

Owe Canada
@151.190.0.x

Owe Canada to peterboro

Anon

to peterboro
said by peterboro:

I'm off to the states next month and using a credit card for gas and with my non-existent zip code so it will be hit and miss once again along the way.

Hey, I've had my card refused at gas pumps in Canada, except it was telling me that in French, so I had no idea what the problem was. I had to go to three gas stations until I found a pump that told me in English that I had to go inside.

Buy gas in NJ. They won't ask you for your zip code. And not only won't you have to go inside, you don't even get out of your car!
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by Owe Canada :

Hey, I've had my card refused at gas pumps in Canada, except it was telling me that in French, so I had no idea what the problem was.

You must have been in Quebec with their language police brown shirts. You are lucky you weren't pulled over for speeding and thrown in jail for refusing to speak in the native language of New France. Next time steer clear of the province like I do and you'll be fine.
raythompsontn
join:2001-01-11
Oliver Springs, TN

raythompsontn to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

Great idea! That way somebody only has to walk next to you to get a signal from the chip to steal your information. Makes it much easier for them that [than] having to actually get the card.

Bzzzzttttt, wrong. Chipped cards do not work that way. There is no RF-ID capability. Instead the chips on the card require a connection to circuitry that reads, and writes, to the chip on the card. Examine the card carefully and you will notice some gold plated contacts on the card. These are the connections to the chip itself. The card reader (and writer) has the capability to connect to the chip on the card.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to Msradell

Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

Great idea! That way somebody only has to walk next to you to get a signal from the chip to steal your information. Makes it much easier for them that having to actually get the card.

Awesome! And here is the comment of the week. Someone who doesn't understand the difference between wireless(RFID)and a card chip(though our credit cards have them too--I'm just too lazy to look for another link), which is physically encrypted on the card. Now tell me, how does someone walk up beside you and get information off a card wirelessly from a physical object that doesn't transmit something? I'll be standing here doing a facepalm while you figure it out.
said by peterboro:

I'm off to the states next month and using a credit card for gas and with my non-existent zip code so it will be hit and miss once again along the way.

The further south one goes the more the co-pilot has to go in and stand at the register to pre-authorize the payment to pump gas.

Well it's not only south but it's also very hit or miss even in every state, I drove through MI, IA, WI, WA, OH, ND, SD, about two months ago, and I could hit one station across the road that needed a zipcode, and on my way back through I hit the one across the street that didn't. What's worse, is that most of these stations are using 'upgraded' software that's supposed to recognize canadian cards but don't, and the manufacture isn't responding to complaints.

janderia
join:2001-02-16
Alexandria, VA

janderia to swannyva

Member

to swannyva
said by angussf:

Once when we were travelling and saw a good deal on a suitcase, the person in the store entered the wrong ZIP on our Discover card, and the card immediately was put on hold. We had to call Discover and get the hold released before we could use the card again.

I've actually tried entering the wrong zip at gas stations. It's never worked for me though. When it hasn't worked, I just wound up paying cash instead as I'm not keen on offering my zip.
said by swannyva:

...a PIN is not commonly required as it is considered "deadly" to an industry that only makes money if you use the card. The CC industry has thrived on the ease of use and the universal acceptance of their product.



That's probably true for most people but it didn't work for me. I now go through the extra hassle of pre-paying cash at the counter rather than paying by credit at the pump with a zip. It's too bad they won't offer folks the choice of a PIN or using their zip.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

Give it another 2-3 years and they'll figure out that chipping cards is a good idea and a super easy way to defeat CC fraud. Chipping requires a pin, unless it's credit. Though, some credit cards also require the use of a pin. Especially bank chipped cards. All gas pumps up here that take credit cards will take interac cards(same as a cheque card in the US), and withdraw funds directly from your bank account. And most stations have, will be, or very soon be rolling out updated readers at the pumps for chipped cards for both interac and credit cards.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US. I don't use debit cards. I use credit cards but not if I had to enter a pin. There is no way at most retailers to enter a pin and not have it read by anyone nearby. Plus, who wants the hassle? Credit cards are supposed to be easy and fast to use. I love that there is no need to sign now if the amount is under $30-$50 depending on the store. That makes it a lot faster.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US.

Yet you have to pre-pay for gas without a peep whereas most of us find it offensive, at least around here.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

said by peterboro:

said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US.

Yet you have to pre-pay for gas without a peep whereas most of us find it offensive, at least around here.

Not if you use a credit card. You only pre-pay if you are using cash or if the pump is messed up and you then have to go to the cashier window to have them manually run the card. But, generally, a credit card works fine. No asking for zip code either. I have noticed though that a credit card issued by a LOCAL Hawaii bank has less problems than does one from a mainland bank even if that bank is Chase, Discover, etc.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to Mele20

Member

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US. I don't use debit cards. I use credit cards but not if I had to enter a pin. There is no way at most retailers to enter a pin and not have it read by anyone nearby. Plus, who wants the hassle? Credit cards are supposed to be easy and fast to use. I love that there is no need to sign now if the amount is under $30-$50 depending on the store. That makes it a lot faster.

As peterboro said, and yet you're stuck with prepay, and you're stuck with zipcodes, and you're stuck with refusal of cash, and, several other things. The whole point behind pins on chip is that it's more secure than a zipcode.

Creditcards were more easy and fast to use until people started getting their identities stolen left-right and centre. It was easier and faster to use, until CC companies started instituting policies that slowed up the process to reduce the CC fraud(zip codes). If you really believe that the extra 8 seconds to put in a pin is a hassle, well I guess that's your sad luck. Maybe it's just because us canucks live in canada, but you know I don't see people staring over the shoulders of someone trying to glare at their pin numbers.

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

drew

Premium Member

A lot of folks have no idea how smartcards work, at all.

It's not enough to know the PIN... the PIN is tied to the chip and effectively "unlocks" or decrypts the contents.

After using multiple smart cards every day, I would have no problem using them to pay for my groceries or my latte.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

It'd probably help if they started running ads like the interac jobbie that they do up here in canada to explain it. I always likened them to "so simple, your 94yr old grandmother can understand it" commercials.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned) to drew

Member

to drew
said by drew:

I would have no problem using them to pay for my groceries or my latte.

You'd fit right in with those fumbling around in the Timmies drive-through line with the keypad for their $1.10 coffee then.

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

drew

Premium Member

I do like my rewards points!
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

Would be better if you guys just moved to chipping your cards like we did up here in Canada.

But that would cost money to the card issuers, and is therefore totally unacceptable.
dave

dave to Mele20

Premium Member

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Be Credit cards are supposed to be easy and fast to use.

And chip-and-PIN does that.

I have a magstripe-and-signature card in the US, and chip-and-pin in the UK (I go home often enough to make it worth doing this - plus most petrol pumps won't accept Ye Old Magge Strype Cardes). Chip-and-pin transactions are faster, and my card never leaves my hand.

I love that there is no need to sign now if the amount is under $30-$50 depending on the store.

With chip-and-pin, there's no need to sign. Ever.

drew
Radiant
Premium Member
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA

drew

Premium Member

I had no idea you were from the UK. This explains so, so many things dave.
Ostracus
join:2011-09-05
Henderson, KY

Ostracus to peterboro

Member

to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US.

Yet you have to pre-pay for gas without a peep whereas most of us find it offensive, at least around here.

The pre-pay came about mostly from the days of $4.00 gas and a lot of drive-offs.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

said by Ostracus:

said by peterboro:

said by Mele20:

Being forced to use a pin for a credit card will NEVER fly in the US.

Yet you have to pre-pay for gas without a peep whereas most of us find it offensive, at least around here.

The pre-pay came about mostly from the days of $4.00 gas and a lot of drive-offs.

And just like a "temporary" tax measure when the gas price drops they'll keep it around.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

said by peterboro:

And just like a "temporary" tax measure when the gas price drops they'll keep it around.

said by peterboro:

And just like a "temporary" tax measure when the gas price drops they'll keep it around.

Gas will never drop below $4 a gallon here. I see nothing wrong with prepay to stop people stealing gas. In fact, the SAFEST thing is prepay as you don't run the risk of having your credit card info stolen. We've had problems here with that. The only reason I don't prepay each time is because I have been getting triple mileage points on my credit card for gas purchases. That ends on Dec 31 but then another credit card is doing 5% cash back starting January 1, 2012. When I have no offers like these then I will do prepay. I'm going to start going to a full service station though where I don't have to get out of my car at all while there, and where the gas costs no more than the cheapest gas station where I have to worry about my card info being stolen when I insert it, or having to go to the cashier window and prepay, and having no perks like having tire pressure check and fixed, etc.

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

As peterboro said, and yet you're stuck with prepay

Is prepay so awful really? I'd rather do that than give up my zip code without knowing what they're doing with it.

No, really. Things have a tendency to get complicated over time, and the rules get more arcane. At some point the whole mess defeats the original purpose, and time isn't saved and convenience is a memory.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

said by dave:

But that would cost money to the card issuers, and is therefore totally unacceptable.

That's great. Except the same card issuers already operate in Canada, visa, mc, capital one, and all the rest. So that's pretty much a null argument. They simply rolled out the chipped cards as they expired, and forced merchants to update the technology within 4 years. Worked very well up here.
said by goalieskates:

Is prepay so awful really? I'd rather do that than give up my zip code without knowing what they're doing with it.

No, really. Things have a tendency to get complicated over time, and the rules get more arcane. At some point the whole mess defeats the original purpose, and time isn't saved and convenience is a memory.

Yep. Especially if you don't carry much or any cash at all on you. Cash for the most part in Canada is gone, people still use it. Most people though don't carry more than $50, and use interac cards. Going chipped kills the "zip code" problem altogether, and is faster than walking in, or even prepay.
Ostracus
join:2011-09-05
Henderson, KY

Ostracus to goalieskates

Member

to goalieskates
Well Prepay does play to the privacy lovers (and cash is a means to that end) out there. Also there is less to go wrong (I'm disputing a gas charge now).
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave to Mashiki

Premium Member

to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

Worked very well up here.

Apparently my sarcastically-expressed opinion of American credit-card companies did not come through.