O Canada! > Canadian > Bell Canada > Fibe 16 with Sagemcom - DSL disconnects with coffee maker!

Fibe 16 with Sagemcom - DSL disconnects with coffee maker!

I have no idea why these things are occurring together, but remember that correlation doesn't imply causation.

reply to Calmuser
I can give you some possibilities which will take some time to write up.

While I do that, can you answer some questions.

1. The community where you live.
2. The Electricity supplier.
3. Is this considered a rural address?
4. Do your lights "blink" when the furnace fan starts, the oven is turned on, or the coffee maker starts?
5. Do you use electric heaters?
6. Do you own a voltmeter?

Rick

squircle, I might agree with you if I couldn't make it happen on demand!

Rickstep

1. just south of Ottawa
2. HYDRO1
3. yes its rural
4. the lights will blink when the coffee maker is brewing
5. there is an oil heater in the room but its on a different circuit.
6. nope

I just find this interesting that it just started happening about a week ago. All was fine before and nothing has changed!

reply to Calmuser
Contact the "direct" forum and ask for a modem swap...any time I hear of an "unusual" trouble like this one I always change the modem first. There could have been a recent power surge that could affect the modem?
--
My Canada includes Quebec.
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies.

reply to Calmuser

reply to Calmuser
Hi Calmuser,

While there may be an issue with the Sagemcom modem and / or the power adapter, the issue is wider than that.

Most modern electronic devices should operate down to 105 volts and sometimes lower. When I ran an electronic manufacturing department, the products HAD to operate down to 95 volts.

The North American power system to the home is defined as 120 / 240 volt. The supply voltage should not exceed 125 / 250 volts and should not drop below 110 / 220 volts roughly +4% & -8%.

As voltage goes up incandescent light bulbs and vacuum tubes (old radios and televisions) don’t last as long and as the voltage drops, motors take to long to start or fail to start and the starting winding can overheat and burn.

Based on your post about blinking lights, I offer this.

When ANYTHING is TURNED ON in ANY HOME or TURNED OFF in ANY HOME; there should NOT be a significant voltage change as to be apparent to the occupants.

The problem is either in the home or on the street.

The Street:

Let’s start with the street because you can get hydro one to verify their wiring at their expense.

Hydro one uses aluminium wiring in the street. Corroded connections where your line connects to the street or where the line connects to your house may cause voltage drops.

Your area may have grown and the transformer is too small and due to increasing loads needs to be replaced with a larger transformer.

If a corroded connection occurs in the Neutral wire between the house and the pole / pad you have a floating Neutral.

What happens is this. In the early stages, your “sniper” type problems occur.

What is actually happening is that the 240 volt, 120 - 0 - 120 changes. The load on the one side of the 120 volt circuit exceeds the load on the other side 120 volt circuit; say by 10%.

When the voltage times the current on one side (power) is balanced against the voltage times the current on the other side the following happens. The current HAS to remain constant so the voltage has to shift. If the power on one side exceeds the power on the other by 10%, the voltage on the one branch will be 120 x 110% = 132 volts and on the other 120 x 90% = 108 volts.

The timeline that you mentioned seems to correspond to a significant drop in temperature. Until recently it was relatively warm. Your neighbours may have “fired up electric heaters” that weren’t there when your Sagemcom modem was installed.

Your Home:

1. Loose or corroded connections at the meter base.
2. Loose or corroded connections in the electrical panel.
3. Corroded or burned connections between the main breaker and the breaker buses (2) that feed the house.

Start with hydro one; it’s their cost. Thy have to MAINTAIN THEIR SYSTEM. If they say their system is not at fault, you may need an electrician.

Hydro one may still be at fault or the problem may be in the home. I STRONGLY suggest that you get the problem resolved. This may not be about a rebooting Sagemcom modem but an early indication of a safety issue.

Rick

reply to Calmuser
Thanks for the info Rick

I might have to contact HYDRO 1 to get them to check.

Also only the lights that are on the same circuit as the coffee maker will flicker, all the other lights are fine.

I have no idea if this is related, but around 9 - 10PM EVERYNIGHT I lose my DSL connection for aprox 30 min. After 30 min or so everything is working fine. This also started happening recently, always in that time frame.

reply to Calmuser
Is it possible that the brewer and modem are connected to the same circuit? Eventhough the two devices might on two "very" different wall outlets, they can be on the same power circuit at the power breaker panel.

Just like when a photocopier is plugged into the same circuit of the computer, once the photocopier starts a copy, it draws too much power and with no power to the other plug, the computer shuts off.

No i'm sure there on a diff circuit.

If I have it plugged into the same circuit as my comp stuff, my breaker will trip when the coffee maker brews, which is why I put it on another.

I also have it plugged into a UPS. I still have to try it bare without the UPS and see how it goes. Already tried another plug.

reply to Calmuser
We used to see issues with Cisco 827 routers plugged into UPS units. The ATM interface (dsl) would go up and down until we actually plugged it directly into a wall outlet...then the issue would go away.
--
My Canada includes Quebec.
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies.

reply to Calmuser
Hi Calmuser,

Some further thoughts on the dimming lights on one circuit and the modem going out to lunch on another.

Trouble shooting is the art of eliminating the obvious. You target the free, cheap, easy first and if the problem still exists, hope and prey that that issue is not too expensive to resolve.

There may be a loose or corroded connection on an outlet that may have several outlets linked together on one breaker. If the outlet is damaged you need to replace the outlet.

I would do the following:

1. Replace all the outlets. A package of 10 outlets at Home Depot is $6.29
2. Replace all marettes in the boxes. A package of 15 yellow marrettes is $2.09
3. Note: I don’t like doing these jobs twice. I would buy the items, open the boxes and change out the parts. For me the $10.00 is the cheapest easiest way to go. Your choice. If the ends of any wire look “burned”, discoloured compared to others, used a utility knife to scrape off the wire surface until the copper is shiney.
4. If an outlet is in the kitchen, it may be a split receptacle. Outlets have 2 silver and 2 brass coloured screws and a built in link between them. If the supply has a black, white & red, it is wired as a split.
5. For split wiring, on the brass side of the receptacle the link MUST be removed. With a pair of pliers bend the link back and forth and it will break off. Compare with the old receptacle. The breaker on split wiring in the panel will be 2 breakers side by side attached to each other so that both breakers turn off at the same time.
6. Open the panel (remove the cover)
7. If you don’t play with house wiring regularly, shut off the main breaker to the house first.
8. Disconnect the wires to the two circuits above.
9. Remove each breaker, check for discoloured connectors, if none reinstall the breaker. If discoloured or burned, replace the breaker. Some breakers are screwed in place, some snap in. If you post the panel make and model, I’ll look it up for you.
10. With a screwdriver, usually a square Robertson # 2 with a RED handle(U. S. calls these Scrulox) check the tightness of all the screws with white wires all the screws with bare wires and all the screw connections to the breakers.
11. Don’t forget to reset your clocks.

You might be surprised to find some under tightened connections.

The UPS

If the UPS is new there should be no issue. If the UPS is old, acquired from work, garage sale etc., the battery may be exhausted, leaking (partially shorting) and unable to maintain 120 volt output.

Try Glen1’s suggestion in previous post.

Lastly:

The problem could be linked to the coffee maker. Two issues come to mind.

1. Older coffee makers use mechanical thermal switches to maintain a constant temperature. As the contacts aged, they would arc and cause all kinds of issues.
2. Newer coffee makers with electronic sensors, use relays to switch and can arc the same as a switch.
3. If the heating element develops a short between the coil and metal element case, the coffee maker will use electricity equal to the rating plate PLUS additional electricity due to leakage. If the coffee maker is plugged into a ground faulted outlet, the outlet would trip. On a regular outlet, the coffee maker may not trip a panel breaker but run the circuit close the limit.
4. Solution, replace the coffee maker.

Circuit breaker circuits will take a constant load equal to about 80% of their rating. As the load increases the breaker will begin to trip. Most breakers have two components, a magnetic component to trip instantly on an excessive overload and a thermal component which slowly heats and will trip due to heat. Constant heat due to marginal overloads (say an additional 5%) will also cause the breaker to further derate as the contact resistance increases and eventually will need to be replaced.

Good luck.

Rick

P.S.
Sorry for the long responses. The devil is sometimes in the details and intermittent issues are always the hardest to correct. Eliminating items shortens the list and speeds a solution.

reply to Calmuser
Thanks Rick.

There alot of stuff to check. I'm not too comfortable with the electrical stuff.

First thing is i'm going to see if I can borrow my neighbours 2wire and see if it still happens.

I did have a 2wire before this Sagemcom 2864, It didn't have these issues. But then again the sagemcom didn't have these issues either till recently!

If that fixes it, a post in the direct forum I go!

The UPS is a couple years and and it self tests the battery all the time, so I doubt it is that. But will still test it out (though if it is, its not a permanent solution, the power is not very stable here and I need a UPS) Its a APC Smart-UPS 1500

And yes it could the Coffee maker, the water tank started leaking a year ago and it still works. But there could be a short somewhere by now. But don't really want to replace it yet, since I still have a lot of coffee pods I need to use.

reply to RickStep
>1. Replace all the outlets. A package of 10 outlets at Home Depot is $6.29

That one might need to be replaced by a qualified Electrician to make sure all done correctly to electrical codes. Not a simple $10 job.

I am sure that your insurance company would be really happy to find out that you replaced it yourself.

Let me put it this way. There seem to be multiple problems here.

1) Seems like some where there is a weak electrical connection and excess current drawn by the coffee maker cause a voltage drop. If you can see lights dim, that would be a few volts. A few volts drop times a few amps make ten(s) of watts dissipated somewhere in the circuit/wiring. I would let you decide if that should count as a electrical code violation. Doing things randomly and hoping for a good result doesn't count as good advice.

If you see the lights dim when the coffee maker is on, then chances the problem is upstream in the electrical connection to the light. Unless your lights and coffee maker both shared a common power bar that is plugged into the same wall outlet, you advice of just replacing random wall outlets would not help. That's doesn't mean the outlets/wiring is not bad, but they are not the direct cause of this issue.

My guess is somewhere closer to the fuse panel as wiring for lights tends to have their own wiring than wall outlets as they have on/off switches. Of course there are crazy electricians out there too. No person can deduce what the problem with a 100% certainty with OP's verbal description.

2) Modems etc tends to run on around 12V (give or take) and have regulators to further step down the voltages into your typical 3.3V and lower. They should be relatively insensitive to 10% changes in the input. Either it is seeing much more than that or hypersensitive to the power outlet, it is relative easy to swap the modem/wall wart out.

If OP is of the type that doesn't even own a $10 multimeter from crappy tire, would you think OP do a lot of electrical wiring or comfortable with fixing it?